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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:50 AM   #2326
humphreysjim
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by kck_shuffle View Post
I understand it comes with the game, but when u are 70/30 favorite or better going into last card or last draw, you should not be sweating too often that you are going to lose. It happens, but not often.
Ummm, it will happen a ton, actually. You do realize that 70/30, although a great edge to have in poker over the long term, is actually very close, short term?

You can, surprisingly, work out the amount of times it should happen, and the answer is not "very rarely".
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:51 AM   #2327
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Right to me when you say rigged i do not automaticly think of RNGs(although on this site there have been some good litriture about juicing the RNG from respected authorities)

Like in the UB scandel When i say RIGGED i tend to mean any way they can use to releive of your money dishonestly or an slight edge(if they wish and there are ways).As said before there are meny ways a site COULD(not goin in depth here) try this. Do they(is it rigged) well thats the whole point of thread i belive.
thankyou and good day sir

Last edited by hitman4hire; 04-17-2009 at 07:58 AM. Reason: any edge that makes money is good right?
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:23 AM   #2328
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by kck_shuffle View Post
, but when u are 70/30 favorite or better going into last card or last draw, you should not be sweating too often that you are going to lose. It happens, but not often.
****** ALERT
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:28 AM   #2329
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
I see your logic is simple. Can i ask you a question? Imagine situation, you spend your summers living outside city in your grandparents house which is located in little town. One day you take a walk in woods and find old left gold mine. You walk into it and see that there's something shiny on one of walls, you come closer and you can clearly see that it's gold. You take one of those hammers with which gold is digged and start to smash wall, it collapses and you see tons of gold worth million.

This is not proof or evidence, just a strange what if scenario. You can use the exact same "logic" to explain how people secretly have super powers like flying and mind reading, but they keep it a secret because it is in their benefit to do so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
Let's say someone who plays cash games has found out some patterns which happen from time to time. By looking at flop, at how many people are envolved in pot, by his holding etc. he can predict exact turn card. When turn card is dealt he can predict exact river card by looking at board, at how many people are left in the pot etc. What he could gain? He could win big pot or escape from loosing big pot, right? Let's say from time to time he wins big pot where he wouldn't win it without his knowledge (for example he wouldn't chase his draw) and from time to time he escapes from disaster loosing big pot where he has something massive. Before he found out way to predict deal he was making 1500$ in month playing cash games, now he makes 2000$-2250$.

Let's say someone learned how to fly and be invisible. They could save all sorts of money in travel costs and could get into events for free from time to time.

If I said this I suspect even you would ask for proof since all it is is a fanciful what if scenario and nothing more. Yours falls in the same category even if to you it seems to make sense. You need to prove it otherwise all it is is a "what if" crime based scenario and we could have a whole thread of similar what ifs regarding online poker or anything.

Proof is not "if someone could do this, they would do it in this way." That is conjecture.




Edit: Bonus hand for rigtards to use in future

PokerStars Game #27183900257: Tournament #156548352, $10.00+$0.40 Omaha Pot Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2009/04/17 8:09:52 ET
Table '156548352 1' 10-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: MightyBishop (1395 in chips)
Seat 2: thekendziors (1360 in chips)
Seat 3: skeet1000 (2365 in chips)
Seat 4: dokonoko (3160 in chips)
Seat 5: koster25 (2885 in chips)
Seat 7: Monteroy (1000 in chips)
Seat 9: seehase (1415 in chips)
Seat 10: papamarco83 (1420 in chips)
papamarco83: posts small blind 50
MightyBishop: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Tc 9d 3h 4h]
thekendziors: folds
skeet1000: folds
dokonoko: calls 100
koster25: folds
Monteroy: folds
seehase: folds
papamarco83: calls 50
MightyBishop: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ah 5h Qs]
papamarco83: checks
MightyBishop: bets 200
dokonoko: calls 200
papamarco83: folds
*** TURN *** [Ah 5h Qs] [Qh]
MightyBishop: bets 200
dokonoko: raises 1100 to 1300
MightyBishop: calls 895 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (205) returned to dokonoko
*** RIVER *** [Ah 5h Qs Qh] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MightyBishop: shows [Qc 8h Qd 4c] (four of a kind, Queens)
dokonoko: shows [8c 7c Th Kh] (a Royal Flush)
dokonoko collected 2890 from pot

Last edited by Monteroy; 04-17-2009 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:39 AM   #2330
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99 View Post
UB and AP do not deserve your defense, even when you're doing it as part of a response to yet another rigged theory.

That's just my opinion, of course.
Yeah, you're right, I just get so tired of that being used as the example of a "rigged" poker site. It's a shame they hurt the reputation of online poker as a whole, which by and large is operated fairly.
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:07 AM   #2331
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

less hands live = less bad beats.
more hands online = more bad beats.
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:20 AM   #2332
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

tl;dr
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:24 AM   #2333
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

Ah, the old "I don't think it's rigged, but...."

The funny part is where you admit to playing 5x more hands online than live, then wonder why you get more beats/monsters online.
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:25 AM   #2334
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

OMGZ 10k hands! Please update us after you have played another week.
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:31 AM   #2335
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
People are not going to share ideas with others if they can make solid buck using them.
feel free to start being stingier with your ideas, lenny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
Let's say someone who plays cash games has found out some patterns which happen from time to time. By looking at flop, at how many people are envolved in pot, by his holding etc. he can predict exact turn card. When turn card is dealt he can predict exact river card by looking at board, at how many people are left in the pot etc.
is that "le rig du jour" ? because some rigtards have implied that the (w)hole cards folks are dealt are how the sites are doing it. others seem to think that miracle rivers based on what fish need to win a big pot as opposed to go broke are the route they're taking. and then there's the "big stacks always win in tournaments" school of thought which is gaining steam. finally, sooperfish is behind the "small stacks win more than the should in cash games."

y'all need to get organized. us shills have a union and good benefits. you guys keep losing to those of us with goldern accounts and newbie fish. so, a la Nelson, I give you a hardy



Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
I see your logic is simple. Can i ask you a question? Imagine situation, you spend your summers living outside city in your grandparents house which is located in little town. One day you take a walk in woods and find old left gold mine...

If you would find out gold in old gold mines would you show up and say: "OMG, i found gold in old gold mines, come on all people, let's go we will be rich!" and throw around gold ? I doubt it.
anyone who is abusing some flaw (and a flaw isn't "rigging" btw) had to find evidence of it existing. do you know someone with it, or are you like that fool who says he saw his friend win like 7 hands? his friend told him he can't lose and it seems he's convinced. it's like this example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
A better (though imperfect) analogy would be that there are a number of people who keep coming into the saloon and telling everyone that there are caves full of gold and that people are mining them and depriving everyone of their rightful share. And doing this despite never once having found any evidence that there is any gold in the area in the first place!
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:22 AM   #2336
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

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Originally Posted by Dr1Gonzo View Post
LOOOOOLL!Of course, just playing the same limit yeah?
Haha
Omfg,havent laughed so much lately luuul.Running from 100$ to 15k$ in limit poker.

[ ] Running hot in limit.
[X] On the couch laughing
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:27 AM   #2337
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

live is so slow it could take you years to realize you suck. online it becomes apparent
much faster.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:27 AM   #2338
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
And you, brilliant mind, think that if there would be people (maybe there is) who would know how to beat RNG, they would show up in this forum and say: "Greetings, fellas! We have found out how to beat RNG and we are willing to share this information with you our great poker buddies. If you want to earn millions and get rich here is what you have to do..." ?

If you would find that in cash game you play there plays bot, you would exploit his game and know exactly how he's playing. You could make money from him. Would you show up in this forum and say: "Hey, fellas, wanna make a buck? There's bot playing in 0.50/1NL and this is how he plays..."

People are not going to share ideas with others if they can make solid buck using them.
This is exactly what happened with PlanetPoker back in like 1999 and people reported it. This is also why all major sites have third party auditors.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:51 AM   #2339
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

tl;dr

bai
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:56 AM   #2340
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

I'm actually a bot myself. My maker is paid by one of the biggest online poker sites for me to play 24hrs a day and post automated responses such as this on poker forums such as P2P.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:58 AM   #2341
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

you cant quit. nobody can.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:58 AM   #2342
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by kck_shuffle View Post
There have been occasions in the past (4 years ago), I managed to parlay $100 deposit into $10-15k over a course of a week, typically playing limit hold'em.
I do that too sometimes.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:00 AM   #2343
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

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you cant quit. nobody can.
qft
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:06 AM   #2344
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

[ ] P2P
[ ] rigged
[x] OP is running hot live
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:08 AM   #2345
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

It's not going to matter in about a week. Well for the USA that is. If the UIGEA doesnt get overturned online players will gradually be pulling their funds off their poker sites. If it does get overturned you can bet you bottom dollar there will be "software changes." All in all this thread is just giving bad press...reguardless it's irrelevent to the US players at this particular time.
"What do you mean software changes?" I know that's what's going to be asked and even though it doesn't deserve an answer I will respond. If the UIGEA is passed that calls for regulation of online gaming. Regulating, taxing, monitoring, policing...If the Gov't passes a bill like this that means Gov't involvement. You can fill in the blanks for yourself...I'm sure there are plenty of threads that will cover this topic.
Here's what most of you haven't figured out yet. Most of these users come here looking for a fight. How many posts have you seen people write saying, "Hey I'm a regular here but this is my first post."? Too many to count. Try neglecting instead of provoking. If nobody's around to listen, who's going to show up to talk?
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:18 AM   #2346
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by wet work View Post
live is so slow it could take you years to realize you suck. online it becomes apparent
much faster.
Amen
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:25 AM   #2347
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

You do understand that if you are a 70/30 favorite, you will lose 30% of the time, right? This is actually quite often.

Let's say you played x hands, and from those x hands you drew 10000 hands in which you were precisely a 70/30 favorite. You can expect to lose 3000 of those hands when your opponent outdraws you with a standard deviation of about sqrt(10000 * 0.70 * 0.30) = 25.1 hands. That is, 99.7 percent of the time you will lose between 2924.7 and 3075.3 hands over that sample. If you reported losing significantly more, you can suspect foul play, but I guarantee that you won't find such an abnormality.

On another note, of course you will see more funny stuff in online poker. As your sample size increases (hands played), the variance increases proportionally.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:35 AM   #2348
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
People are not going to share ideas with others if they can make solid buck using them.
Yeah, forgot to comment on this, but this is a very unrealistic outlook. While a few people might keep something a secret (casino whoring in the day was an example of this), the reality is that most people would tell either for moral reasons (some do have morals) or just to show off how special they are that they know something.

Look at all the people here who seem to think they know how the system is flawed, ie: they play the system not the math. Sure, most of them are losing players in deep rationalization mode, but they are willing to openly share what they believe to be wrong in the system.

That's one of the ironic fallacies in the "it's so good, no one would talk" logic. Realistically someone would talk, and the lack of any fact based talk in this area helps prove the system is more fair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
It's not going to matter in about a week. Well for the USA that is. If the UIGEA doesnt get overturned online players will gradually be pulling their funds off their poker sites. If it does get overturned you can bet you bottom dollar there will be "software changes." All in all this thread is just giving bad press...reguardless it's irrelevent to the US players at this particular time.

This is fairly standard doom and gloom end of the world beliefs. People have been saying variations of this about online poker for years and will continue saying them until the end of time.

Lots say the same thing about human life in general.

The week will come and go, nothing will dramatically change as you predict, but you will likely still believe that something big will happen. Here, read about how the world will end in 2012. When it does not, there will be a new theory of the world ending in 2016. That's how it works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Doomsday_Prediction
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:36 AM   #2349
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Re: Thinking about quitting online poker

can we make a subforum in BBV called "OMG POKER IS RIGGED" and we can direct the crazies there?
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:43 AM   #2350
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
It's not going to matter in about a week. Well for the USA that is. If the UIGEA doesnt get overturned online players will gradually be pulling their funds off their poker sites. If it does get overturned you can bet you bottom dollar there will be "software changes." All in all this thread is just giving bad press...reguardless it's irrelevent to the US players at this particular time.
"What do you mean software changes?" I know that's what's going to be asked and even though it doesn't deserve an answer I will respond. If the UIGEA is passed that calls for regulation of online gaming. Regulating, taxing, monitoring, policing...If the Gov't passes a bill like this that means Gov't involvement. You can fill in the blanks for yourself...I'm sure there are plenty of threads that will cover this topic.
Here's what most of you haven't figured out yet. Most of these users come here looking for a fight. How many posts have you seen people write saying, "Hey I'm a regular here but this is my first post."? Too many to count. Try neglecting instead of provoking. If nobody's around to listen, who's going to show up to talk?
You really do talk some complete and utter bollox, don't you?

This gibberish is not even internally consistent.

It's such nonsensical waffle it's not even worth commenting on in any detail
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