The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition - Page 929 - Internet Poker

How the **** are you going to perform your 'investigation' if you are so clueless you can't even work out how to sample the files and estimate the number of histories in them?

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06-25-2010 , 01:02 PM

#23202

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

How the **** are you going to perform your 'investigation' if you are so clueless you can't even work out how to sample the files and estimate the number of histories in them?

Wiki, I'm not a computer expert, so I don't know what 'sample the files' means.

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06-25-2010 , 01:03 PM

#23203

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

If someone showed me some investigations, I'd happily believe them.

Someone TELLING me they've done an investigation but refusing to show it, proves nothing.

That's the difference I'm trying to explain.

So what you're basically saying is a version of: "If it's in the papers it must be true".

If someone tells you their investigation showed nothing untoward you wouldn't believe them.

But if they typed up a load of made up data you would.

You really are beyond help.

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06-25-2010 , 01:05 PM

#23204

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

As I said before, I assume nobody has any reason, (nor the time on their hands), to sit down and invent a 100,000 hand investigation. It would also be reasonably easy to check if the investigation was genuine.

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06-25-2010 , 01:07 PM

#23205

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

Wiki, I'm not a computer expert, so I don't know what 'sample the files' means.

You claim to have a degree in maths and have familiarity with stats.

And yet you can't work out how to open a file, find an average figure for the number of lines per HH, relate that to the number of lines in the file and then use the size of the sample file and the total size of all the files to estimate the total HH's.

No one with a maths degree who can play poker on a computer is that f**king useless.

You're now a confirmed (and very skillful, I might add) troll.

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06-25-2010 , 01:08 PM

#23206

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

How?

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06-25-2010 , 01:14 PM

#23207

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Well, I can do that if you want, but considering the difference in size between a hand history for a heads up game, or a tournament, I don't think doing it that way would give a very good estimate.

I do have a maths degree, I'm just completely useless with computers. Again, no reason to swear at me.

I'd roughly estimate 100,000 hands on my current account, but I stress that's a really rough estimate, using the system you suggested.

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06-25-2010 , 01:14 PM

#23208

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

How?

How what ?

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06-25-2010 , 01:16 PM

#23209

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

How what ?

What was the statement quoted before the question?

"It would also be reasonably easy to check if the investigation was genuine."

How would you do that?

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06-25-2010 , 01:17 PM

#23210

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

I do have a maths degree, I'm just completely useless with computers. Again, no reason to swear at me.

The reason to swear at you is because you are pretending to be a complete ****** and wasting everyone's time.

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06-25-2010 , 01:19 PM

#23211

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

What was the statement quoted before the question?

"It would also be reasonably easy to check if the investigation was genuine."

How would you do that?

See if the person's sharkscope (or other available) stats matched up with what they were claiming.

See if people who had played against them's hand histories matched the hand histories they were presenting.

I suppose someone could sit and invent part or all of a 100,000 hand history if they wanted, I just don't believe anyone would have the time or the reasons to do so.

Also, if we were looking at many different investigations, the fact that someone had chosen to invent theirs wouldn't affect the results that much.

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06-25-2010 , 01:21 PM

#23212

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

So you've never heard of cherry picking?

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06-25-2010 , 01:22 PM

#23213

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

The reason to swear at you is because you are pretending to be a complete ****** and wasting everyone's time.

Right, Wiki, as it's 2010, let's leave out the offensive terms which may have been acceptable in the 1960s.

I'm not pretending to be anything, I just assumed an estimation in the way you suggested would be so inaccurate that it wouldn't even be worthwhile.

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06-25-2010 , 01:24 PM

#23214

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

Right, Wiki, as it's 2010, let's leave out the offensive terms

You stop behaving like a ****** and I'll stop calling you one.

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06-25-2010 , 01:25 PM

#23215

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

So you've never heard of cherry picking?

As in picking certain hands to show what you wanted ?

Again, I assume people wouldn't have the time to sit down and 'cherry pick' 100,000 hands.

Also, again, if they did, checking sharkscope or other available statistics would surely show this up as well.

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06-25-2010 , 01:27 PM

#23216

FatedToPretend

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

You stop behaving like a ****** and I'll stop calling you one.

If you want to get childish, then we can happily involve the moderators.

I thought as we're both adults, that you'd be big enough to not use words which are out-dated and deeply offensive to many people.

We're discussing the fairness of online poker. There's no reason to reduce this to base-level, vile insults.

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06-25-2010 , 01:30 PM

#23217

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

Again, I assume people wouldn't have the time to sit down and 'cherry pick' 100,000 hands.

They would use software.

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Also, again, if they did, checking sharkscope or other available statistics would surely show this up as well.

Not if they cherry picked the hands to disguise what they were trying to hide and then further cherry picked to get them to match up with published statistics.

You see, this is why any analysis would be worthless to you (although it might keep you happy, I suppose). You don't have the capacity to know what to look for or to know when you are having the woll pulled over your eyes.

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06-25-2010 , 01:32 PM

#23218

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

They would use software.

Not if they cherry picked the hands to disguise what they were trying to hide and then further cherry picked to get them to match up with published statistics.

You see, this is why any analysis would be worthless to you (although it might keep you happy, I suppose). You don't have the capacity to know what to look for or to know when you are having the woll pulled over your eyes.

Why would anyone have any reason to do that ?

This is why I suggested a number of investigations, as I HOPED the number of genuine ones would far outweigh any made up ones.

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06-25-2010 , 01:33 PM

#23219

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

If you want to get childish, then we can happily involve the moderators.

Go on then.

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I thought as we're both adults, that you'd be big enough to not use words which are out-dated and deeply offensive to many people.

If it walks like a ****** and talks like a ****** ...

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There's no reason to reduce this to base-level, vile insults.

Apart from you ******ed intransigence.

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06-25-2010 , 01:38 PM

#23220

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Go on then.

If it walks like a ****** and talks like a ****** ...

Apart from you ******ed intransigence.

WIKI PLEASE.

THAT IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

I've heard you've had several accounts already, due to being banned before. Stop being insulting and childish, show people a bit of respect and leave out the deeply offensive, vile terms.

I understand your refusal to back down on your beliefs about internet poker, but when it comes to abusive, hurtful language, that has no place in modern society, then that's a completely different matter.

Do not continue to use hurtful terms, which most of us stopped using at 10 years old, in order to mock and abuse someone, or wind someone up. Be big enough to step back and think about what you're doing.

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06-25-2010 , 01:39 PM

#23221

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

Why would anyone have any reason to do that ?

You sit there having paranoid delusions about poker sites rigging the deal and yet you don't have the wit to see why, if they were rigging the deal, they wouldn't employ people to fake investigations that proved it was OK?

This is the trouble with rigtards.

They are not even internally consistent with their paranoid fantasies.

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06-25-2010 , 01:44 PM

#23222

mackem

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 549

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadebidder

Nobody has ever proven even theoretically how rigging the deal can make a site significantly more money. Lots of ideas have been refuted because they don't work, and a few well-thought-out ones by non-riggies have described ways that could make a site a *little* more money but wouldn't be worth the risk to their long term success.

Please show us how they make more money. And before you give a standard reaction like "more action means more rake", think more about it, as that one in particular, like many other rigged ideas, is just plain false. A site only makes more rake by having more players in seats on a 24/7 averaged basis. There is no other way. So how do you rig it to accomplish that?

PS - I realize you pointed out that you doubt there is rigging. I just used your post to make these points because you said it makes them more money, as if that were a given.

If there's any rigging, that's not the reason for it. I was thinking more along the lines of new account syndrome where chasing that gutshot pays off.

I don't think it's in their interest to see Mr New To The Place deposit $100 and go bust before the hour's up. They want him to become addicted and stick around. If he's poor then he'll go bust, sure. But if it's a week down the line he may redeposit thinking he's not that bad a player.

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06-25-2010 , 01:51 PM

#23223

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Just stop acting like a ******?

This isn't even the place for such debate, but why are you coninuing to use offensive, vile, outdated terms, which have no place in modern society ?

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06-25-2010 , 01:52 PM

#23224

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatedToPretend

This isn't even the place for such debate, but why are you coninuing to use offensive, vile, outdated terms, which have no place in modern society ?

Because you are a complete idiot.

Better?

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06-25-2010 , 01:53 PM

#23225

FatedToPretend

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

As explained earlier today, a 'rigtard' is someone who believes online poker is rigged. I don't believe that.

The number of genuine investigations would outweigh any faked ones anyway.

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