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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:24 PM   #2276
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Re: Deja Vu

its funny fau paux, not funny haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLNIa...eature=related

Last edited by VP$IP; 04-16-2009 at 03:27 PM. Reason: its Deja Vu all over again
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:34 PM   #2277
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
I don't think you know what "identical" means.
I see 2 cards out of 8 that match. Wow, it's a miracle.
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:41 PM   #2278
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
The issue was never me losing a couple dollars on hands I decided to gamble with. I'm a big boy and take my losses well, especially when it's a result of poor play. Honestly I would gladly have paid 40 bucks to have this freak occurrence happen.
You can compare what happened to me with a couple of holdem hands where you won as an underdog but in reality the probabilities are many orders in magnitude difference.
I love how you said I think it is rigged against me. Where did I say such things. All is said was maybe it's not a perfect or truly random system.
Also how am I using unrelated bits of data in any way?
I gave you 2 hands that happened simultaneously where the whole cards were identical for both me and villain. Unrelated? Please....
The loss helped trigger the reaction, that is just natural.

Your cards were not identical

[2h As 6s 7d] and [6c 2c Ad 7s](your hands) are not the same

[Ac 4c Ah Jh] and [Ac Js Ah 4d] (opponents hands) are not the same

They have cards of different suits, and even the ranking of the cards are not in the same order. They are similar because they each have 4 cards of the same value, but you would have probably thought a similar thing happened if you got dealt 2 hands in a row with four diamonds in each and lost to AA two hands in a row.

So your RnG is flawed theory is basically one that requires the hands to be dealt that have the same ranking (ie: AK23) but can be dealt in any order and regardless of the suits

Thus AdKs2h3c is the exact same hand as 2dKd3hAh in Omaha hi/lo according to your theory.

Umm, well, not so much

Last edited by Monteroy; 04-16-2009 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:48 PM   #2279
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

No the miracle is that he ended up with the nuts both times.
Obviously he had me crushed, but the probability to have the nuts at the end of a hand it pretty low, no matter what you start with. Even if we are not talking the same suits for every single card, the aces (key component) were the same suit in the exact same position....
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:52 PM   #2280
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Even if we are not talking the same suits for every single card, the aces (key component) were the same suit in the exact same position....
Jebus! Did villian hold his mouth the exact same way both times too?

You are truly grasping at straws.
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:52 PM   #2281
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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No the miracle is that he ended up with the nuts both times.
Obviously he had me crushed, but the probability to have the nuts at the end of a hand it pretty low, no matter what you start with. Even if we are not talking the same suits for every single card, the aces (key component) were the same suit in the exact same position....


[Ac 4c Ah Jh] on a board of [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad] is technically not the nuts

So his exact hands are not exact (except for the specific components needed for the theory) and his nuts hands are not the nuts. This is a very complex RnG flawed theory.

Seriously maybe just stick with flush draws hit too much.

or Lizard people.

All the best.

Last edited by Monteroy; 04-16-2009 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:38 PM   #2282
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I think this video might be enlightening for a few in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:15 PM   #2283
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by kitchma View Post
I think this video might be enlightening for a few in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
+1
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:48 PM   #2284
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Thumbs up Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by Mokers View Post
Anyone who has played Party Poker for a considerable amount of time will know what I'm saying here.

Party Poker's engine fixes the outcome of cards in cash games to benefit the company in two ways:

- Generates more rake ("action flops" inducing more interest in hands)

- Keeps more people playing (and more rake donated) by levelling the playing field. Rewarding bad play/players with "Miracle" flop/turn/river cards time and time again, against the overarching odds, keeping their bankroll intact.

If the turn of the card was absolutely random then there'd be a lot less players and a lot less fish. The site would be busto.

The turn of a card is ultimately not random, or even realistically simulated random.

I'm not going to go into it in more detail than that. Any regular who isn't kidding himself can back me up here, or leave it. I've played on the site for over 4 years now, and for a considerable amount of that time it's been my only source of income (0.25/0.50 right up to 10/20). I'm going to continue playing Party Poker as I have done since I was 18 because I'm familiar with how the software (albeit corrupt) works, and because the competition is still shockingly poor.

Cheers

I admire your honesty poker sites are about playing the software not poker
and if you happen to have a favourable account in regards to paying rake this helps to

Last edited by hitman4hire; 04-16-2009 at 06:50 PM. Reason: brutal honesty deserves respect
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:30 PM   #2285
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by hitman4hire View Post
I admire your honesty poker sites are about playing the software not poker
and if you happen to have a favourable account in regards to paying rake this helps to

I totally respect any opponent who "plays the software." One kept saying he folds every AK preflop since it always loses (after he folded I assume AK). I happily congratulated him on his system based play as I got no call for my reraise all in with AQ suited preflop.

He lost shortly later when his KJ lost to AK, but I told him not to veer from his beliefs as they will serve him well. He thanked me and said he would.

His ROI on sharkscope and OPR were both in the -50% range. Must be the site's fault.

We make fun of "rigtards" here, but the reality is the last thing we really want any of them to do is use logic or even watch that fairly interesting video that was just posted.

I never even ask rigtards to prove what they say that often (not like proof is really a big part of their claims anyway). I just find it amusing when some pick theories that are exactly opposite of other rigged theories, and some are very creative in using so many unrelated bits of data that it can be amusing watching them craft essentially a huge mixed rigged quilt. Look, the ace is in the same spot in 2 Omaha hands in a row, that proves it is rigged!!

That's mainly for entertainment purposes here. Rigtards in all forms are a vital contributing (in terms of $$$) part of the poker economy and the last thing we really need is for them to actually use things like logic, evidence and deductive reasoning.

Gut instinct, knowing when something is wrong and creating beliefs about things like deposit curses, action hands, super boom accounts, playing the software/not the odds are all beliefs I am happy to see others have at the tables.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:49 PM   #2286
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
I totally respect any opponent who "plays the software." One kept saying he folds every AK preflop since it always loses (after he folded I assume AK). I happily congratulated him on his system based play as I got no call for my reraise all in with AQ suited preflop.

He lost shortly later when his KJ lost to AK, but I told him not to veer from his beliefs as they will serve him well. He thanked me and said he would.

His ROI on sharkscope and OPR were both in the -50% range. Must be the site's fault.

We make fun of "rigtards" here, but the reality is the last thing we really want any of them to do is use logic or even watch that fairly interesting video that was just posted.

I never even ask rigtards to prove what they say that often (not like proof is really a big part of their claims anyway). I just find it amusing when some pick theories that are exactly opposite of other rigged theories, and some are very creative in using so many unrelated bits of data that it can be amusing watching them craft essentially a huge mixed rigged quilt. Look, the ace is in the same spot in 2 Omaha hands in a row, that proves it is rigged!!

That's mainly for entertainment purposes here. Rigtards in all forms are a vital contributing (in terms of $$$) part of the poker economy and the last thing we really need is for them to actually use things like logic, evidence and deductive reasoning.

Gut instinct, knowing when something is wrong and creating beliefs about things like deposit curses, action hands, super boom accounts, playing the software/not the odds are all beliefs I am happy to see others have at the tables.
please see my previous post in this thread my first...That post is 100% correct and true some of which was acually published in a poker magazine
There is also an interesting thread now in BBV under [x] algorithms
Im not here to argue just to present the facts.
These will determine my thinking.

Last edited by hitman4hire; 04-16-2009 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Keeping an open mind from experience
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:54 PM   #2287
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by hitman4hire View Post
please see my previous post in this thread my first...That post is 100% correct and true some of which was acually published in a poker magazine
There is also an interseting thread now in BBV under [x] algorithms
Im not here to argue just to present the facts.
You mean this one?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman4hire View Post
Ive Heard people online saying poker is rigged i never paid much attention.
Now my attitude has changed ive gone fron being a BIG winner at low/mid stakes STTs ($10/$20/$50) with an ROI of 23% over the last 2 years to a losing player break even at most,What changed varience no i opened a new account closed other why for screen name change silly i know but i have played 40/80 stts very day for the last 2 mouths on new account and will a hand hold never 95% bad beats in the stts i am now close to quitting.

A freind who i have met through poker forums and playing cash games has told me no matter what hand hes playing he losses only apx 5% of time he opened an account with $100 and now 12 tables 50/1 1/2 2/4 nl.
he tells me he makes himself lose as not to attract attention i have seen his last 5 played hands yesterday at 2/4 as i never belived him true to his word he is goin in on crazy **** ie 75off for buy ins and not losing he is no super user but tells me he thought he was running good at first but now makes thousands.

Make of it what u will but all 100 percent true.is your account selected to be the next internet success story

Would you be so kind as to let us know which "poker magazine" that was published in?
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:54 PM   #2288
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Re: Party Poker "action flops", contrived cards... levelling the playing field.

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Originally Posted by hitman4hire View Post
please see my previous post in this thread my first...That post is 100% correct and true some of which was acually published in a poker magazine
is your first post about the friend who only loses 5% of his hands or is there another one previous?

either way, please link to magazine article...




edit: what's rigged is that me n' KoF aren't BFF's.

Last edited by Markusgc; 04-16-2009 at 07:56 PM. Reason: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU my pony ain't THAT slow!
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:57 PM   #2289
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I think I found the magazine:


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Old 04-16-2009, 08:02 PM   #2290
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

The article i will dig out from inside poker this refers to the STTs and the players bad down swing the second relates to a person who would not like me even posting this so if provide HH there will be deletion
of certain info as but as i said this is not a fairy tale.
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:03 PM   #2291
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I think I found the magazine:


LMAO 10/10 for creativity on the money
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:07 PM   #2292
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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LMAO 10/10 for creativity on the money
I was creative with money and got 10-20. wtf?
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:31 PM   #2293
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I'd just like to thank all the rigtards for the laugh, especially the ones who go, "ZOMG I know for a fact you're cheating me!"

And proceed to rebuy and continue to play and lose.

Oh and a thought: In every facet of life, brilliant people will exploit any angle, moral or immoral in order to get rich. If online poker was rigged, there would be people algorithmically raping the RNG for money. There are way too many people superior in intellect out there that would've figured out the deal of the cards by now if it were not random.

Last edited by TeflonDawg; 04-16-2009 at 08:32 PM. Reason: and if you're a bitch about variance, go play plo8, jump in, water's fine
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Old 04-16-2009, 08:50 PM   #2294
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'd just like to thank all the rigtards for the laugh, especially the ones who go, "ZOMG I know for a fact you're cheating me!"

And proceed to rebuy and continue to play and lose.

Oh and a thought: In every facet of life, brilliant people will exploit any angle, moral or immoral in order to get rich. If online poker was rigged, there would be people algorithmically raping the RNG for money. There are way too many people superior in intellect out there that would've figured out the deal of the cards by now if it were not random.
Rigging/in Poker could come in meny forms and as more than 1 site has been found guilty of this well These super intelligent people cant cure the common cold cant run a car without fossil fuels cant keep your economy from crashing but they sure can steal your dollars in one form or another
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:09 PM   #2295
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Rigging/in Poker could come in meny forms and as more than 1 site has been found guilty of this well.
This is either pure trolling, or pure ignorance, or both. No poker site has ever been found to have rigged the deal in any way. And don't start comparing to the UB/AP cheaters, everyone knows about them. The company fired them, sued the folks who sold them the fkd-up site, paid back the losers, paid big fines, had their license put on long-term no-tolerance probation, repaired the software (and had to provide 3rd-party certification of this to a real Canadian court as part of the lawsuit), lost their reputation, lost a lot of business, and scared the sht out of every other poker site operator. And their deal was never rigged. So what other sites are you referring to?

Last edited by spadebidder; 04-16-2009 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:16 PM   #2296
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Rigging/in Poker could come in meny forms and as more than 1 site has been found guilty of this well
No sites that I know of have been found of rigging the deal to be anything but random.
Quote:
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These super intelligent people cant cure the common cold cant run a car without fossil fuels cant keep your economy from crashing but they sure can steal your dollars in one form or another
What the hell are you talking about?
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:23 PM   #2297
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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These super intelligent people cant run a car without fossil fuels
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:02 PM   #2298
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
This is either pure trolling, or pure ignorance, or both. No poker site has ever been found to have rigged the deal in any way. And don't start comparing to the UB/AP cheaters, everyone knows about them. The company

fired them, (pretty sure Russ didn't fire himself)

sued the folks who sold them the fkd-up site, (might be a show for the players, might be real)

paid back the losers, (some of them)

paid big fines, (to themselves?)

had their license put on long-term no-tolerance probation, (the KGC license? )

repaired the software (currently it awards pots to losing players on occasion, but yeah, no new superusers have been identified)

(and had to provide 3rd-party certification of this to a real Canadian court as part of the lawsuit), (dubious "certification" IIRC)

lost their reputation, (yes)

lost a lot of business, (probably, but I've never looked up the numbers)

and scared the sht out of every other poker site operator. (irrelevant and unknowable)

And their deal was never rigged. (almost certainly true)

So what other sites are you referring to?
.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:33 PM   #2299
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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fired them, (pretty sure Russ didn't fire himself)

sued the folks who sold them the fkd-up site, (might be a show for the players, might be real)

(and had to provide 3rd-party certification of this to a real Canadian court as part of the lawsuit), (dubious "certification" IIRC)
I get your other points, but I'm confused by these. The court documents required Tokwiro to sever all ties with 88 current or former employees IIRC, and to make sure they had no further connection of any kind to the company and no access to anything. Also, Tokwiro sued for $81 million dollars and settled for $15 million, paid by the former seller of the company, plus about another $6 million that had already been refunded to players. All this is in official documents of the Superior Court of Ontario. And the court hired their own independent software auditor to review all the source code, databases, everything. Nothing dubious about that. I'm not defending UB, I just want to know the real facts so I went to the source. What did I miss?

Edit - it also says they refunded the money won in every hand ever played by the 88 identified cheaters, whether cheating occurred in the hand or not. So why "some of them" ?

Last edited by spadebidder; 04-16-2009 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:00 PM   #2300
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Edit - it also says they refunded the money won in every hand ever played by the 88 identified cheaters, whether cheating occurred in the hand or not. So why "some of them" ?
Quite a few people have said they played against the superusers and either didn't get a refund at all, or got refunded way less than they lost.
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