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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,449 34.95%
No 5,524 55.98%
Undecided 895 9.07%
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:30 PM   #2176
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
the player who got beaten by the supersuser on the final table , the one who requested the hand history and got the lot
if he would have just popped into a forum , said i think i was cheated or the guy could see my hole cards and posted the hand would he have been told , well it was just a bad player , its variance life is rigged etc get a tinfoil hat ?
that guy was so lucky to get full hand historys etc to prove he was right , otherwise it would have just been a joke at a potential sore loser , well you got beaten by donk get over it .

how many sites poker etc have been caught in some scandal or caught cheating now ?
1 or 2 or is it hitting 5 or 6 ?

phil helmuth getting a pot with the losing hand , if you where 4 or 6 tabling at the time would you have even notcied ? i know its not rigging but its a bug

the people who had the super user accounts where they even charged ? no? breaking what law in what island province ?

while this industry isnt regulated i wouldnt put it past anyone to be doing anything and i wouldnt degrade anyone who says it might be rigged or not right




rigging doesnt have to be as simple as aa vs kk , give a shorter stack top pair in a flop to overcards , give a shorter stack a flush draw etc
why do this ? in a torni with 5k players if no hands hit anyone for 2 hours there would be less players on the cash tables or joining other tornis etc
( this is just a possible theory not what im saying happens )


millionares get caught cheating the stock market ( why would a guy with 45 million dollars risk jail for another 2 million , simple its greed ) , insider trading , companies set up false businesses as tax shelters , big phone companies overcharging customers 5cents ( its worth a lot when you have 4 million customers ) bookmakers not declaring big bets to the tax office ( why would a bookie who makes 5 to 6 million a year hide a 200k bet from the tax office , greed ) cricket players losing ( lets not forget south africa ) players from india getting signals when to bowl a no ball for live betting its endless what people will do for money and having a lot of money doesnt make you a saint


a lot of people say why would a site risk its business to cheat when they would lose its customers ?
well i dont see ab or ub shut down ? people still play there even tho the ip was traced back to management ?


a lot of poker sites claim to have their rng checked by independant sources ok all good ? has any one actualy checked what happens between the rng and the table ?


and for anyone who says that its too hard or a computer or couldnt be used to rig so many hands on so many tables check out these stats



chess computer in 2003

Deep Junior, 2003
Kasparov played with 3D glasses in his match against the program X3D Fritz.

In January 2003, he engaged in a six game classical time control match with a $1 million prize fund which was billed as the FIDE "Man vs. Machine" World Championship, against Deep Junior.[58] The engine evaluated three million positions per second


The engine evaluated three million positions per second

so make a random rng , have one of these babies in between look at stack sizes agress factor position called bets players in hand and make a flop and turn comeout any way they wanted ?( the average player takes longer than 1 second to think if his checking or folding so my god this thing could calculate what 10 players would need on a flop to stay in )


so lets look at it this way
why would they do it ? greed
why would they chance it ? no retributions
can they do it ? The engine evaluated three million positions per second


so its all possible

i like online poker , but i prefer live play , and i will continue to say when a small stacks aces where rivered by the big stacks pocket 4s that ..well hes having a lucky day

untill i start believing otherwise


just my 4 cents )

Maybe, you should have looked a little deeper into this.

2+2 (thanks to a few key posters) was the MAJOR reason the Absolute scandal was uncovered. The hands were analyzed and it showed a statistical impossibility (or as close as it gets) in POTRIPPERS favor. The key to the AP and UB scandal is that evidence was provided. Once it was the community helped uncover the injustice that was occurring.

This differs from most "OMG it's ROGGED" posts. DUCY?
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:35 PM   #2177
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Maybe, you should have looked a little deeper into this.

2+2 (thanks to a few key posters) was the MAJOR reason the Absolute scandal was uncovered. The hands were analyzed and it showed a statistical impossibility (or as close as it gets) in POTRIPPERS favor. The key to the AP and UB scandal is that evidence was provided. Once it was the community helped uncover the injustice that was occurring.

This differs from most "OMG it's ROGGED" posts. DUCY?
Quoted and bolded for emphasis.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:47 PM   #2178
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Maybe, you should have looked a little deeper into this.

2+2 (thanks to a few key posters) was the MAJOR reason the Absolute scandal was uncovered.
Quite a few other facts wrong in that diatribe too. But ok.

The people who suspected cheating on Absolute were not mocked, and the investigation on 2+2 started well before the big hand history file was obtained. Check your facts next time TMB.

Last edited by spadebidder; 04-15-2009 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:54 PM   #2179
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Maybe, you should have looked a little deeper into this.

2+2 (thanks to a few key posters) was the MAJOR reason the Absolute scandal was uncovered. The hands were analyzed and it showed a statistical impossibility (or as close as it gets) in POTRIPPERS favor. The key to the AP and UB scandal is that evidence was provided. Once it was the community helped uncover the injustice that was occurring.

This differs from most "OMG it's ROGGED" posts. DUCY?

yes i know it was busted from some great work by the forum members

what i meant if he didnt get all the hand histories and just had the one hand to post , the final one and said i think i got cheated would 90% of the collective response been get a tinfoil hat , the other guys just a donkey ?

it was only due to getting to see all the players hole cards that it was proved and because it was such a big torni that it mattered more

if a player showed 10 $1 sng from his poker tracker where he got busted out as a 90% favorite on the turn 10 times and said im being cheated or its rigged im quite sure he would just get sent to the local shop to buy some tinfoil and duct tape

no matter how many times or how many stats we look at poker tracker , we will never know the correct % of odds

if someone gets his trips busted by a runner runner 4 card flush we say well that happens % of the time so its roughly correct
but do the odds change if there was only 2 left in the deck and the rest where folded by other players ?

too tired to think of maths at the moment , e = mc x flush x einstein factor square % * x rng + ego minus beer


oh im not having a go at anyone and not trying to be fact perfect ( besides deep blue thanks wiki ) i was just generalizing , so i hope i havent offended the masses !


too much poker and not enuff sleep ! gn and gl on the tables
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #2180
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
but do the odds change if there was only 2 left in the deck and the rest where folded by other players ?
No.

(Well, not a priori, obviously).
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:05 PM   #2181
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
what i meant if he didnt get all the hand histories and just had the one hand to post , the final one and said i think i got cheated would 90% of the collective response been get a tinfoil hat , the other guys just a donkey ?

it was only due to getting to see all the players hole cards that it was proved and because it was such a big torni that it mattered more
Please read the actual original threads from the UB/AB scandal, as it's obvious you have not. Just about everything you've said about them was wrong.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12075548

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-stolen-99247/
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:27 PM   #2182
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Re: MITH or NOT?! THE NEW PLAYER AWESOME RUN

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmorgen View Post
Ive always thought that an argument like this would be B.S! But after table ratings, I have ran across quite a few players (who have less than 2k hands played on the site) getting pretty damn lucky in every way.
A couple problems with your methodology.

1) Table Ratings only catches maybe 80% of people's hands at best.
2) The lowest limit it keeps track of is 100NL. So unless all those people started out at 100NL, those aren't actually their first few thousand hands.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:41 PM   #2183
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Please read the actual original threads from the UB/AB scandal, as it's obvious you have not. Just about everything you've said about them was wrong.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12075548

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-stolen-99247/




taken from these threads .......


Quote:
Originally Posted by muffins plz View Post
What are you trying to implicate here? A hole card reader? Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturiusX View Post
Why can I see HSNL turning into a 'I THINK I FOUND A SUPERUSER' forum very soon? **** guys, people run hot, it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pethie View Post
snagglepuss

It looks like you suck. Deposit on Party, KingKong is a superuser there.

people are still bagging the errm superuser theory in those threads and that is what i meant

as i said my general chat was about the possibility of things could be easily rigged and the people who usualy suggest these things are trolled pretty hard even the ones that prove out to be correct !!!!

as i said i didnt mean to offend the masses and i bow down to you guys for catching these bastards , if we had them some rope and a pissed off racehorse we could take for a quick drag

i guess it was a bad way to start out my post about a computer like deep blue and i appologise humbly
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:51 PM   #2184
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

What about the possibility of a PONZI SCHEME ala madoff? who knows what the online casinos are really doing with their customers' deposits.

Could Pokerstars really pay out everyone if everyone decided to cash out all at the same time?
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:09 PM   #2185
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by checkorbet50 View Post
What about the possibility of a PONZI SCHEME ala madoff? who knows what the online casinos are really doing with their customers' deposits.
A bunch of smaller online casinos essentially acted in this manner, some probably just due to bad business (too nice a bonus that got swarmed by bonus whores), while others probably were a fraud the whole time.

As a crime, this makes pretty good sense. It steals money without having to do anything impractical like building a complex AI that seems to be able to adapt on the fly to the quadrillions + of combos of players/stacks/hands/players actions coupled with perfect secrecy that is required for most rigged beliefs.

Stars has all deposits matched in a separate account, but that will not change people from believing what they want. I am sure some out there think McDonalds is a 50+ year Ponzi scheme as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by checkorbet50 View Post
Could Pokerstars really pay out everyone if everyone decided to cash out all at the same time?
Yes, but do not let facts get in the way of a fun belief system.



Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
while this industry isnt regulated i wouldnt put it past anyone to be doing anything and i wouldnt degrade anyone who says it might be rigged or not right
This is called being paranoid. Lots of people are paranoid, so you are not alone.




Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
rigging doesnt have to be as simple as aa vs kk , give a shorter stack top pair in a flop to overcards , give a shorter stack a flush draw etc
If it was rigged, any of these would in fact be among the dumbest ways to rig it since they would be caught so much easier then any rigged method that actually tried to hide itself.

Yet these are by far the most common forms of rigged beliefs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
a lot of people say why would a site risk its business to cheat when they would lose its customers ?
well i dont see ab or ub shut down ? people still play there even tho the ip was traced back to management ?
They lost quite a bit of business.



Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
a lot of poker sites claim to have their rng checked by independant sources ok all good ? has any one actualy checked what happens between the rng and the table ?
Does it really matter? Even if it did whatever you are confusingly saying it should, all someone would do is wonder whether anyone checked the person who checked the person who checked if the time between the rng and the table was properly checked by the checker.

Then they would give up and say flush draws hit too much.


And always remember - it is the Lizard people.

It is always the Lizard people.



Side note, I am glad the economy based conspiracies died off fast. They were way too boring.
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:09 PM   #2186
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by checkorbet50 View Post
What about the possibility of a PONZI SCHEME ala madoff? who knows what the online casinos are really doing with their customers' deposits.

Could Pokerstars really pay out everyone if everyone decided to cash out all at the same time?
[ ] Knew the term "ponzi scheme" before the madoff debacle and now uses it to sound smart
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:56 AM   #2187
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

i can definitely see why people would say its rigged

i just started on FTP and I have had AA 22 times and won 4 times when people folded before showdown

they have no reason to screw me though so i know its not, but **** im annoyed im just gonna stop playing there because i never win and its that simple (none of the times in question did any chips/money go in when i was behind)

i can see how people who dont know much would interpret runs like this wrong
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Old 04-16-2009, 04:04 AM   #2188
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Jake, it really depends how you played the aces.
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Old 04-16-2009, 04:11 AM   #2189
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rek View Post
Jake, it really depends how you played the aces.
bet bet bet got all in with the best hand got outdraws by a 6/5/4/2 outer

i know it depends how i played them im talking tourneys so usually shorter stacked

i do not think its rigged

Last edited by Jakejackjake; 04-16-2009 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:21 AM   #2190
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I have gone back and forth on this subject but just now something happened that really makes me question the randomness of these sites.

I play mostly Omaha hi/low and always thought it funny how I would be dealt the same hand at multiple tables. Surely this will happen in random deals as well, but often times the cards are the same suit or even in the same order.

So i didn't really think anything was too strange about me seeing A267 on 2 different tables simultaneously. That is until i decided to play it aggresively and both times lost a showdown to AhAcJ4. THE ACES WERE THE SAME SUIT EVEN!

I can understand having the same hand at multiple tables but c'mon now what are the chances that within a span of 20 seconds my A267 loses to AAJ4 twice. The funniest part is that both times villain made the nuts.

I know some of you will laugh this off and say a couple hands means nothing but I was really spooked out by what happened, enough so to start an account here, and I legitimately think I may have stumbled upon something.

Next time you are multitabling and you get dealt the same hand try to get to a showdown to see if villain shows you the same hand. Just a hunch.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:24 AM   #2191
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

PokerStars Game #27144826208: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2009/04/16 4:16:08 ET
Table 'Unukalhai II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: uwilgetbroke ($44.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($24.35 in chips)
Seat 3: BruceLi ($14.25 in chips)
Seat 4: peky1 ($7.20 in chips)
Seat 5: sevup ($58.20 in chips)
Seat 6: mondo nutz ($39.05 in chips)
Seat 7: tacksamkt ($9.60 in chips)
Seat 8: Suicidalik ($24 in chips)
Seat 9: singerboy1 ($47.60 in chips)
mondo nutz: posts small blind $0.25
tacksamkt: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
Suicidalik: folds
singerboy1: calls $0.50
uwilgetbroke: calls $0.50
Phunbaba23: calls $0.50
BruceLi: folds
peky1: folds
sevup: folds
mondo nutz: calls $0.25
tacksamkt: raises $9.10 to $9.60 and is all-in
singerboy1: calls $9.10
uwilgetbroke: raises $34.95 to $44.55 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $23.85 and is all-in
mondo nutz: folds
singerboy1: calls $34.95
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
singerboy1: shows [2h 5c 8h 3d] (HI: a pair of Eights)
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:26 AM   #2192
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
I have gone back and forth on this subject but just now something happened that really makes me question the randomness of these sites.

I play mostly Omaha hi/low and always thought it funny how I would be dealt the same hand at multiple tables. Surely this will happen in random deals as well, but often times the cards are the same suit or even in the same order.

So i didn't really think anything was too strange about me seeing A267 on 2 different tables simultaneously. That is until i decided to play it aggresively and both times lost a showdown to AhAcJ4. THE ACES WERE THE SAME SUIT EVEN!

I can understand having the same hand at multiple tables but c'mon now what are the chances that within a span of 20 seconds my A267 loses to AAJ4 twice. The funniest part is that both times villain made the nuts.

I know some of you will laugh this off and say a couple hands means nothing but I was really spooked out by what happened, enough so to start an account here, and I legitimately think I may have stumbled upon something.

Next time you are multitabling and you get dealt the same hand try to get to a showdown to see if villain shows you the same hand. Just a hunch.
This is gold. So now the sites are rigging it for the same hands on multiple tables. Jeez even the dumbest of rigtards don't say this...............until now.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:27 AM   #2193
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

PokerStars Game #27144828987: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/04/16 4:16:22 ET
Table 'Gaspra' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: seemsIwin ($139.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($39.65 in chips)
Seat 3: tourbiker ($47.60 in chips)
Seat 4: uwilgetbroke ($201.85 in chips)
Seat 5: dwwg ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 6: 49ers2005 ($184.30 in chips)
Seat 8: Domico ($30.35 in chips)
Seat 9: icecrmking ($20 in chips)
Domico: posts small blind $0.50
icecrmking: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
seemsIwin: folds
Phunbaba23: calls $1
tourbiker: calls $1
uwilgetbroke: folds
dwwg: folds
49ers2005: folds
Domico: calls $0.50
icecrmking: raises $19 to $20 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $19
tourbiker: folds
Domico: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
Phunbaba23: mucks hand
icecrmking collected $39.90 from pot
No low hand qualified
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:40 AM   #2194
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by checkorbet50 View Post
What about the possibility of a PONZI SCHEME ala madoff? who knows what the online casinos are really doing with their customers' deposits.

Could Pokerstars really pay out everyone if everyone decided to cash out all at the same time?
No, Microgaming went busto and owes their players $5.3 Million so that begs the question, what do they do with deposits?
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:45 AM   #2195
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rek View Post
This is gold. So now the sites are rigging it for the same hands on multiple tables. Jeez even the dumbest of rigtards don't say this...............until now.
Thanks for the intelligent response and weren't you awfully quick to respond (defend). All I said is that i was spooked out by some poker deja vu. I didn't say anywhere that the site intentionally rigs it for the same hand on multiple tables, I just think that the program may be a little less than completely random. If the RNG uses external sources to generate a random deal, and it gets a similar reading as it did a few seconds ago, would it not deal a fairly similar hand?
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:46 AM   #2196
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
the player who got beaten by the supersuser on the final table , the one who requested the hand history and got the lot
if he would have just popped into a forum , said i think i was cheated or the guy could see my hole cards and posted the hand would he have been told , well it was just a bad player , its variance life is rigged etc get a tinfoil hat ?
that guy was so lucky to get full hand historys etc to prove he was right , otherwise it would have just been a joke at a potential sore loser , well you got beaten by donk get over it .

how many sites poker etc have been caught in some scandal or caught cheating now ?
1 or 2 or is it hitting 5 or 6 ?

phil helmuth getting a pot with the losing hand , if you where 4 or 6 tabling at the time would you have even notcied ? i know its not rigging but its a bug

the people who had the super user accounts where they even charged ? no? breaking what law in what island province ?

while this industry isnt regulated i wouldnt put it past anyone to be doing anything and i wouldnt degrade anyone who says it might be rigged or not right




rigging doesnt have to be as simple as aa vs kk , give a shorter stack top pair in a flop to overcards , give a shorter stack a flush draw etc
why do this ? in a torni with 5k players if no hands hit anyone for 2 hours there would be less players on the cash tables or joining other tornis etc
( this is just a possible theory not what im saying happens )


millionares get caught cheating the stock market ( why would a guy with 45 million dollars risk jail for another 2 million , simple its greed ) , insider trading , companies set up false businesses as tax shelters , big phone companies overcharging customers 5cents ( its worth a lot when you have 4 million customers ) bookmakers not declaring big bets to the tax office ( why would a bookie who makes 5 to 6 million a year hide a 200k bet from the tax office , greed ) cricket players losing ( lets not forget south africa ) players from india getting signals when to bowl a no ball for live betting its endless what people will do for money and having a lot of money doesnt make you a saint


a lot of people say why would a site risk its business to cheat when they would lose its customers ?
well i dont see ab or ub shut down ? people still play there even tho the ip was traced back to management ?


a lot of poker sites claim to have their rng checked by independant sources ok all good ? has any one actualy checked what happens between the rng and the table ?


and for anyone who says that its too hard or a computer or couldnt be used to rig so many hands on so many tables check out these stats



chess computer in 2003

Deep Junior, 2003
Kasparov played with 3D glasses in his match against the program X3D Fritz.

In January 2003, he engaged in a six game classical time control match with a $1 million prize fund which was billed as the FIDE "Man vs. Machine" World Championship, against Deep Junior.[58] The engine evaluated three million positions per second


The engine evaluated three million positions per second

so make a random rng , have one of these babies in between look at stack sizes agress factor position called bets players in hand and make a flop and turn comeout any way they wanted ?( the average player takes longer than 1 second to think if his checking or folding so my god this thing could calculate what 10 players would need on a flop to stay in )


so lets look at it this way
why would they do it ? greed
why would they chance it ? no retributions
can they do it ? The engine evaluated three million positions per second


so its all possible

i like online poker , but i prefer live play , and i will continue to say when a small stacks aces where rivered by the big stacks pocket 4s that ..well hes having a lucky day

untill i start believing otherwise


just my 4 cents )
+1
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:52 AM   #2197
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I have gone back and forth on this subject but just now something happened that really makes me question the randomness of these sites.

I play mostly Omaha hi/low and always thought it funny how I would be dealt the same hand at multiple tables. Surely this will happen in random deals as well, but often times the cards are the same suit or even in the same order.

So i didn't really think anything was too strange about me seeing A267 on 2 different tables simultaneously. That is until i decided to play it aggresively and both times lost a showdown to AhAcJ4. THE ACES WERE THE SAME SUIT EVEN!

I can understand having the same hand at multiple tables but c'mon now what are the chances that within a span of 20 seconds my A267 loses to AAJ4 twice. The funniest part is that both times villain made the nuts.

I know some of you will laugh this off and say a couple hands means nothing but I was really spooked out by what happened, enough so to start an account here, and I legitimately think I may have stumbled upon something.

Next time you are multitabling and you get dealt the same hand try to get to a showdown to see if your opponents show you the same hand. Just a hunch.

PokerStars Game #27144826208: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2009/04/16 4:16:08 ET
Table 'Unukalhai II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: uwilgetbroke ($44.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($24.35 in chips)
Seat 3: BruceLi ($14.25 in chips)
Seat 4: peky1 ($7.20 in chips)
Seat 5: sevup ($58.20 in chips)
Seat 6: mondo nutz ($39.05 in chips)
Seat 7: tacksamkt ($9.60 in chips)
Seat 8: Suicidalik ($24 in chips)
Seat 9: singerboy1 ($47.60 in chips)
mondo nutz: posts small blind $0.25
tacksamkt: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
Suicidalik: folds
singerboy1: calls $0.50
uwilgetbroke: calls $0.50
Phunbaba23: calls $0.50
BruceLi: folds
peky1: folds
sevup: folds
mondo nutz: calls $0.25
tacksamkt: raises $9.10 to $9.60 and is all-in
singerboy1: calls $9.10
uwilgetbroke: raises $34.95 to $44.55 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $23.85 and is all-in
mondo nutz: folds
singerboy1: calls $34.95
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
singerboy1: shows [2h 5c 8h 3d] (HI: a pair of Eights)
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)
uwilgetbroke collected $40.40 from side pot-2
Phunbaba23: mucks hand
uwilgetbroke collected $43.15 from side pot-1
tacksamkt: mucks hand
uwilgetbroke collected $37 from main pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $123.55 Main pot $37. Side pot-1 $43.15. Side pot-2 $40.40. | Rake $3
Board [Tc Kd As Qd 8c]
Seat 1: uwilgetbroke showed [Ac Js Ah 4d] and won ($120.55) with HI: a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 mucked [6c 2c Ad 7s]
Seat 3: BruceLi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: peky1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: sevup (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mondo nutz (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: tacksamkt (big blind) mucked [9d 7h 8s 6d]
Seat 8: Suicidalik folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: singerboy1 showed [2h 5c 8h 3d] and lost with HI: a pair of Eights


PokerStars Game #27144828987: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/04/16 4:16:22 ET
Table 'Gaspra' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: seemsIwin ($139.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($39.65 in chips)
Seat 3: tourbiker ($47.60 in chips)
Seat 4: uwilgetbroke ($201.85 in chips)
Seat 5: dwwg ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 6: 49ers2005 ($184.30 in chips)
Seat 8: Domico ($30.35 in chips)
Seat 9: icecrmking ($20 in chips)
Domico: posts small blind $0.50
icecrmking: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
seemsIwin: folds
Phunbaba23: calls $1
tourbiker: calls $1
uwilgetbroke: folds
dwwg: folds
49ers2005: folds
Domico: calls $0.50
icecrmking: raises $19 to $20 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $19
tourbiker: folds
Domico: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
Phunbaba23: mucks hand
icecrmking collected $39.90 from pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $42 | Rake $2.10
Board [9c Jd 9s 8d Ad]
Seat 1: seemsIwin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 mucked [2h As 6s 7d]
Seat 3: tourbiker folded before Flop
Seat 4: uwilgetbroke folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: dwwg folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 49ers2005 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Domico (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: icecrmking (big blind) showed [Ac 4c Ah Jh] and won ($39.90) with HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:52 AM   #2198
qpw
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Thanks for the intelligent response and weren't you awfully quick to respond (defend).
I was about to defend you and point out that running the hands you did might well seem spooky enough to warrant a post. I was even prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume, for the time being, that you were not one of our small band of rigtards with yet another gimmick account.

However, your observation about Rek's speed of response and the mention of defence very clearly points to you being a sock puppet from one of our current obsessives who, having no rational argument to support the idea that the site are rigging hands, resorts to futile and wholly laughable attempts to try and discredit those who do put forward rational arguments by calling them shills.

Quote:
I just think that the program may be a little less than completely random. If the RNG uses external sources to generate a random deal, and it gets a similar reading as it did a few seconds ago, would it not deal a fairly similar hand?
This simply indicates that you are completely clueless about hardware RNG's and the associated software that handles dealing.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:15 AM   #2199
BucketFoot
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Alright I admit I made a mistake in my reply to Rek but his brainless post angered me.
I admit I really know nothing about RNG's, ( I think I've heard it's impossible to achieve 100% randomness) and don't think the sites are intentionally cheating anyone, but you have to admit it was a rather bizarre occurrence. I would like to know the probability. Then again I have played a lot of hands....
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:21 AM   #2200
SooperFish24
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
I have gone back and forth on this subject but just now something happened that really makes me question the randomness of these sites.

I play mostly Omaha hi/low and always thought it funny how I would be dealt the same hand at multiple tables. Surely this will happen in random deals as well, but often times the cards are the same suit or even in the same order.

So i didn't really think anything was too strange about me seeing A267 on 2 different tables simultaneously. That is until i decided to play it aggresively and both times lost a showdown to AhAcJ4. THE ACES WERE THE SAME SUIT EVEN!

I can understand having the same hand at multiple tables but c'mon now what are the chances that within a span of 20 seconds my A267 loses to AAJ4 twice. The funniest part is that both times villain made the nuts.

I know some of you will laugh this off and say a couple hands means nothing but I was really spooked out by what happened, enough so to start an account here, and I legitimately think I may have stumbled upon something.

Next time you are multitabling and you get dealt the same hand try to get to a showdown to see if your opponents show you the same hand. Just a hunch.

PokerStars Game #27144826208: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2009/04/16 4:16:08 ET
Table 'Unukalhai II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: uwilgetbroke ($44.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($24.35 in chips)
Seat 3: BruceLi ($14.25 in chips)
Seat 4: peky1 ($7.20 in chips)
Seat 5: sevup ($58.20 in chips)
Seat 6: mondo nutz ($39.05 in chips)
Seat 7: tacksamkt ($9.60 in chips)
Seat 8: Suicidalik ($24 in chips)
Seat 9: singerboy1 ($47.60 in chips)
mondo nutz: posts small blind $0.25
tacksamkt: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
Suicidalik: folds
singerboy1: calls $0.50
uwilgetbroke: calls $0.50
Phunbaba23: calls $0.50
BruceLi: folds
peky1: folds
sevup: folds
mondo nutz: calls $0.25
tacksamkt: raises $9.10 to $9.60 and is all-in
singerboy1: calls $9.10
uwilgetbroke: raises $34.95 to $44.55 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $23.85 and is all-in
mondo nutz: folds
singerboy1: calls $34.95
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
singerboy1: shows [2h 5c 8h 3d] (HI: a pair of Eights)
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)
uwilgetbroke collected $40.40 from side pot-2
Phunbaba23: mucks hand
uwilgetbroke collected $43.15 from side pot-1
tacksamkt: mucks hand
uwilgetbroke collected $37 from main pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $123.55 Main pot $37. Side pot-1 $43.15. Side pot-2 $40.40. | Rake $3
Board [Tc Kd As Qd 8c]
Seat 1: uwilgetbroke showed [Ac Js Ah 4d] and won ($120.55) with HI: a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 mucked [6c 2c Ad 7s]
Seat 3: BruceLi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: peky1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: sevup (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mondo nutz (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: tacksamkt (big blind) mucked [9d 7h 8s 6d]
Seat 8: Suicidalik folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: singerboy1 showed [2h 5c 8h 3d] and lost with HI: a pair of Eights


PokerStars Game #27144828987: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/04/16 4:16:22 ET
Table 'Gaspra' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: seemsIwin ($139.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($39.65 in chips)
Seat 3: tourbiker ($47.60 in chips)
Seat 4: uwilgetbroke ($201.85 in chips)
Seat 5: dwwg ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 6: 49ers2005 ($184.30 in chips)
Seat 8: Domico ($30.35 in chips)
Seat 9: icecrmking ($20 in chips)
Domico: posts small blind $0.50
icecrmking: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
seemsIwin: folds
Phunbaba23: calls $1
tourbiker: calls $1
uwilgetbroke: folds
dwwg: folds
49ers2005: folds
Domico: calls $0.50
icecrmking: raises $19 to $20 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $19
tourbiker: folds
Domico: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
Phunbaba23: mucks hand
icecrmking collected $39.90 from pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $42 | Rake $2.10
Board [9c Jd 9s 8d Ad]
Seat 1: seemsIwin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 mucked [2h As 6s 7d]
Seat 3: tourbiker folded before Flop
Seat 4: uwilgetbroke folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: dwwg folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 49ers2005 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Domico (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: icecrmking (big blind) showed [Ac 4c Ah Jh] and won ($39.90) with HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines
For this to happen clearly indicates a flaw with the RNG.

Nice Post.
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