Gee, um, which scaandal was it that came from this thread?

No scandal has been uncovered in this thread. And if one did , it would quickly be popped out of this thread.

By the way, you've got now three replies to toltec's post. Please tell us the flaws in our logic now.

[QUOTE=Lego05;18127138] certain stakes,
certain times,
certain days,
certain games,
certain players.

take your pick, there more....

[QUOTE=Lego05;18127138] I've done that already

[QUOTE=Beaten Senseless;18127417]
What's the point? What are they gaining? If they were to rig why would they only rig certain things in those categories?

Are you suggesting sites would rig games just for the hell of rigging games?


And how is being rigged anyway?



If you really think they just pick 5 hours out of each day and rig it in a certain way for those 5 hours or even what if they split the 5 hours up into certain 10 minute segments and they change the 10 minute time periods they do it for each day.

Well ...... this is starting to just get really worthless to talk about.


And anyway even if they did that ..... then over time the 5 hour periods would add up and overall the stats would skew in whatever way they were rigging it for, for those 5 hours anyway and so it would be discovered that something was going on even if nobody ever figured out that it was only happening 5 hours a day.

Obviously rigging certain games that statistics for that game would be skewed, for certain stakes those stakes would be skewed, certain players that player's stats would be skewed, certain days it would be skewed on that day. You can test for all of this.


I can allege crazy allegations of cheating or fraud or corruption or whatever against a lot of business or people or whatever. It just sounds a little out there and I don't have any evidence.

As far as I know: No scandal.

The great conspiracy theory scandal came out of this thread. The one where all the shortstacks, big stacks, and fish win too often. And superusers, bots, superuser bots, and superduperuser bots who could see the hole cards AND know what cards were coming.... those all came out of this thread.

Pretty frequently actually. I have one friend who is convinced he was getting cheated at a 2/4 limit game in Vegas because players were hitting on the river and as he says 'no way they would've stayed in that hand unless they knew it was coming'.

Also, I regularly hear that auto shufflers aren't as random as hand shuffled decks from the other players at the table.

Is there some point you're driving at here? If so, it's probably time to get to it.

More often than you think. But who would do that?
Whiners and people who can't understand why they lost and have to blame the dealer or other players.

The proof is you're here making false accusations instead of working on improving your game.


I've heard everything from colluding dealers (even in tournaments lol) to cheating players to marked decks to anything and everything you could imagine. If some ****** loser can imagine it, it's been said.

Btw, jftr, I have found cheaters before playing in [live] cash games. I've seen marked cards [during a tournament]. I've also been approached on two different occasions to become part of a cheating team. I'm not sure what is about me that would make someone ask me to do that. Maybe I look like a crook.. ?

But still, nothing compares to when I was a casino dealer. People [who were losing] would accuse me or the house of doing something like on a daily basis! You can't even imagine the **** I've heard (or been accused of). And the funny thing is, the only time I did cheat, I was never suspected or anything. I did right under the boss' nose with surveillance watching. So yeah, it happens.. just not the way you think it would

** I cheated the house btw, not the players. BIG difference.

deal with variance like a man and stop saying its rigged

Seriously if you guys want to see how to actually go about proving that something is wrong check out the old thread on Ultimate/Absolute Poker and/or look at this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19.../#post18100799

Probably don't post there though .... wouldn't want you guys to get in their way and clog up the thread (if anything is actually still going on).

That's pretty impressive though, huh? Doing a lot of statistical analysis and actually coming up with some evidence or even proof that there was cheating going on.

You need this in ..:*glitter*:..

Of course you are.

If you use the sum of deposits to determine how far 'up' you are.

Well, we can the evidence see your unhappiness very clearly.

And it's continual losses that tend to make poker players unhappy.

So I think we have identified our loser.

Ive just started reading this thread, i got through the first page and decided....
"SCREW THIS!!!"
so not wanting to go through a thousand and a half pages i thought id ask everyone who has followed this thread the utimate question:
Is online poker rigged? you must all know by now after all this debate, so is it?
Coz if it is, i aint playing anymore, but if it isnt, thats ok.

QPW, are you going to answer this?

I'm intrigued to the true packing density as when I originally suggested that they could rig in this way the comment was completely tongue in cheek. I didn't expect Spade and yourself to analyze the ins and outs.

The general consensus amongst those who actually debate the matter rather than just make wild accusations and call anyone who disagrees with them 'a shill' is that it is very probably not.

Despite a lot of people examining a lot of hands there is not one single shred of evidence that it is rigged.

Just a succession of losers whining about the bad beats they suffer.

Sorry, I missed this when it was posted.

Yes, I think you are missing something: probably because you are encoding the cards using 1 -> 52, rather than 0 -> 51, and you are needlessly encoding the final card.

I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment so I don't have time to double check but here's a code snipet I quickly created to implement the encoding algorithm described and its output.

The cards are numbered 0 to 51 and, as there is only one possibility for the last card it is not implicitly encoded.

Encoded 51 current V = 51
Encoded 50 current V = 2.65e+003
Encoded 49 current V = 1.33e+005
Encoded 48 current V = 6.5e+006
Encoded 47 current V = 3.12e+008
Encoded 46 current V = 1.47e+010
Encoded 45 current V = 6.74e+011
Encoded 44 current V = 3.03e+013
Encoded 43 current V = 1.34e+015
Encoded 42 current V = 5.74e+016
Encoded 41 current V = 2.41e+018
Encoded 40 current V = 9.89e+019
Encoded 39 current V = 3.95e+021
Encoded 38 current V = 1.54e+023
Encoded 37 current V = 5.86e+024
Encoded 36 current V = 2.17e+026
Encoded 35 current V = 7.81e+027
Encoded 34 current V = 2.73e+029
Encoded 33 current V = 9.29e+030
Encoded 32 current V = 3.07e+032
Encoded 31 current V = 9.81e+033
Encoded 30 current V = 3.04e+035
Encoded 29 current V = 9.12e+036
Encoded 28 current V = 2.65e+038
Encoded 27 current V = 7.41e+039
Encoded 26 current V = 2e+041
Encoded 25 current V = 5.2e+042
Encoded 24 current V = 1.3e+044
Encoded 23 current V = 3.12e+045
Encoded 22 current V = 7.18e+046
Encoded 21 current V = 1.58e+048
Encoded 20 current V = 3.32e+049
Encoded 19 current V = 6.63e+050
Encoded 18 current V = 1.26e+052
Encoded 17 current V = 2.27e+053
Encoded 16 current V = 3.86e+054
Encoded 15 current V = 6.17e+055
Encoded 14 current V = 9.25e+056
Encoded 13 current V = 1.3e+058
Encoded 12 current V = 1.68e+059
Encoded 11 current V = 2.02e+060
Encoded 10 current V = 2.22e+061
Encoded 9 current V = 2.22e+062
Encoded 8 current V = 2e+063
Encoded 7 current V = 1.6e+064
Encoded 6 current V = 1.12e+065
Encoded 5 current V = 6.72e+065
Encoded 4 current V = 3.36e+066
Encoded 3 current V = 1.34e+067
Encoded 2 current V = 4.03e+067
Encoded 1 current V = 8.07e+067

Which is ~= 52!

If there are any further problems I'll look at it in more detail.

>_repeat

Are you sure that's not supposed to be a 7?



you can't fool me

I think you need to use BS's personal lexicon. (Isn't it funny the way his initials are so appropriate?)

Rigged: (Of cards) Distributed in a normal, random, manner so that one wins or looses at the rate appropriate to one's poker playing talant.

Buried: Not allowed to stand alone and unquestioned; answered.

I'm sure you believe that.

full tilt is rigged

True.

It's rigged to reward good players by using a fair and random deal.


(Probably.)

I dont feel like getting into this debate. Just random FT is rigged once in a while . Becouse it is only site that i can´t play sngs profitably, and it tilts me so ****ing bad.