I'm 100% sure that thread would get less progress. At least in this thread there actually has been a little study of large databases that people have been convinced to turn over for analysis.

In the thread you envision there would be nobody actually attempting to analyze any data to see if there is any proof. I expect that there would just be a lot of people agreeing with each other that they think online poker is rigged and posting their bad beats.

There's not much to comment on. He showed nothing. We don't even have any evidence that he actually cashed out at those times ..... he just drew circles with paint or whatever. Even accepting that he did cash out at those times .....

He didn't prove causation. He didn't even attempt to show causation. And in fact losing a little money after cashing out 2 times does not even show a correlation, much less causation.


And as I said I cashed out about a week ago and have won about $1200 since doing so. What does this show?





EDIT:

Also he claims all 3 events give Full Tilt more money. I don't see how this is true. When a player cashes out Full Tilt does not get more money. When a player loses Full Tilt does not get more money. When a player wins Full Tilt does not get more money. Full Tilt keeps collecting the same amount of money, the rake. The only argument that would make even any small amount of sense at all is that playing Rush would give Full Tilt money faster ... and that's only one of his circles so I don't know what he is talking about.

You have a golden account or you're a roboshill?

The 2+2 forums has been active in policing online poker. People at 2+2 uncovered the whole Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet thing.

People at 2+2 are currently engaged in going through the possible collusion by StoxPoker members.


REAL PLAYER INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE INTEGRITY OF ONLINE POKER ACTUALLY TAKES PLACE ....... but it takes place in High Stake forums or NVG where people who actually know what they are doing perform many many hours worth of analysis on very large data samples and they go through many different areas.

In this thread people just believe online poker is rigged and say so repeatedly without actually conducting detailed analysis of large samples to discover proof.

If you want to actually get in on the real work then go check out one of the other places ...... but you would probably just get in their way IMO ... maybe not though.

I still think it would be funny (and probably the way to go) for everybody to just stop posting in this thread.

I just wonder what is the sites' motivation for this? When you lose money, the sites don't win it, other people do. What does nearing a stellar reward have to do with rigging the sites? Why would they want to do it at that point?

bottom line: LOL @ anyone thinking online poker is rigged.

It will not .... because the same people will take the same beats and lose money the same and then will believe the sites are rigged.


Also as has been hashed to death ... the sites are already regulated ... the 3rd largest one is even a publicly traded company. What is so special about U.S. regulation that you seem to have 0% confidence in regulation in any other country and 100% confidence in regulation in the U.S.?

You're unfortunately missing the point, at best.

It is very difficult to debate the issue with you because you continue to claim that you believe things are legit whilst rambling about how it could be rigged and ignoring all arguments against your "devils advocate" viewpoint.

Just to clarify:

1) You do not believe you have observed rigging whilst playing
2) You do not believe your hand histories show any rigging.
3) You have no strategy how it would be rigged other than some kind of "randomness" to conceal it
4) You have made no attempt to calculate the potential financial benfit of the rigging
5) You concede that online poker probably isn't rigged.


From what you have posted so far all of the above are true so why do you want to discuss "anomolies" and accuse people of being "shills" to cover them up. It seems you are not playing devils advocate as you claim but merely unwilling to embrace the feelings you have because you don't want to associate yourself with the rigtard crew.

As far as concerns about your privacy are concerned, I dont want to see all the hand histories but would like to see some kind of Pokertracker output to show the "anomolies". This is the very information you pretend people are surpressing. If anomolies truly exist I'm sure you would then be willing to risk your privacy to be the guy that brought the downfall of online poker.

I actually think this thread would get more traffic. More players = more people who think its rigged. I imagine that the % of players who believe it to be rigged will likely not change much no matter the amount of regulation or studies.

He likes to think that US regulation holds the [magical] key to him winning online. What he fails [hard] to realize is that he sucks at poker [and at life in general]. The whole world could regulate online poker and he would still lose, whine, and "theorize" like the true riggie he is.

He's no different than a gambler who wants "a new dealer" because the one he has "isn't giving him any money". Then the next one comes in and he loses even more! "I need a new dealer!"

What?!?!

You tellin me that changing the dealer makes no difference?

pfffffffttttt

How often do people suggest the poker in vegas is rigged?

I am way up online overall.

I won't dispute that one of us may be an unhappy loser....if there was only some way to prove it.....

[QUOTE=Lego05;18121981]The 2+2 forums has been active in policing online poker. People at 2+2 uncovered the whole Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet thing.

QUOTE]

Did the UB scandal come out of this thread?

Slows payment of comps.
Gets new players "hooked".

I'm sure it happens ...... especially now with the automatic shufflers.

And this is not really the best argument for you since these other countries we were talking about also have casinos and in these casinos it is similarly rare for people suggest the poker is rigged. So since the rareness of complaints is the same your argument does nothing to show that the regulatory bodies in the U.S. are more effective than the counterparts in other countries.



AND ANYWAY:

The two really aren't comparable anyway IMO. The probable fact that people do not suggest Vegas poker is rigged too often IMO really has much less to do with any regulatory body than it has to do with people being able to see a physical dealer, physical cards and see the physical dealer shuffling the physical cards. Anybody (even people who are not very intelligent and people who tend to be very paranoid) can see what is happening and understand the cards are being "mixed up". At home games people "mix up" the cards in this manner themselves. It is easy for people to see the randomness in these games.

On the other hand when it comes to online poker when you sit at a virtual table you can not see a dealer shuffling cards. People do not understand the RNG and how online sites work ... they can not see cards being "mixed up". This combined with most of them being poor poker players yet thinking they are good poker players and also them not understanding statistics leads to many ore suggestions that the games are rigged.

No, of course not.

The UB + AP thing was uncovered with evidence, and the people in this thread claiming that there is something wrong are famous for providing no evidence.

[QUOTE=Beaten Senseless;18126697] I'm pretty sure it did not. I believe it originated in the High Stake NL forums here and then after a good amount of evidence was uncovered some high stake player (I don't remember who) began a thread about it in NVG.

Is my recall mistaken somewhere?

post #8 in this thread..........

As far as I know the payment from most if not all (and definitely stellar rewards) of similar promotions is not at all related to how much a player wins/losses and when someone gets to 85% of unlocking a bonus if that player starts to lose it would have 0 effect on the bonus.


How does getting 85% of the way through completing a bonus and then beginning to lose get new players hooked?

[QUOTE=Lego05;18126834] Will a small stakes scandal ever come from the high limit thread?

You do realize this thread is made up of combined threads, right? Pretty sure that post was made before this actual thread existed ... and the original thread probably wasn't even made in this forum, and was likely posted in an inappropriate forum.

Considering the uncovering of that came at least 6 months prior to this thread, um, no.

[QUOTE=Beaten Senseless;18126936] If a site were rigged the riggedness would affect all stake levels. Are you suggesting they would program it in somehow to only manipulate the deal in certain stake levels?


Were a player cheating independently of the site and only played small stakes obviously a high stake player would never uncover it. But players cheating independently of the site get caught all the time. Sites investigate this on their own. Also players report suspicious behavior and a lot of cheaters playing at these levels are not smart enough to cheat intelligently and do things that look very weird and/or make it obvious there's a good chance something fishy is going on hence they get reported and sites investigate ..... and many cheating players have been banned .... and many victims of cheating players have been reimbursed.

Players do at times randomly get e-mails informing them that they played in a sng where some players were colluding and that they have been credited a certain amount of $ due to that collusion affecting them.


Some players will of course get away with cheating.