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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:49 PM   #1826
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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What are you blethering on about? Rape for gods sake? Where do you come from? Your a real life David Brent.

I dont have evidence, Likely I wont ever have evidence but I do have my opinion based on long experience.
Nevermind. You missed the point.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:50 PM   #1827
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Damn those places where drug dealing and illegal enterprises operate. The USA certainly has none of that stuff going on at all!
Yes of course the US has drugs but at least they try to do something about it.

Why are you even posting here? Seriously GTFO
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:51 PM   #1828
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Of course its not concrete evidence. I never presented it as such. Markusgc asked me to explain what I believed was happening.

Only someone narrow minded and stupid would base all their opinions on evidence.

I bet your a great laugh on a night out.

Guy:"Hey Kingof Felt I think that girl likes you",
KingofFelt: "Evidence, where s your Evidence and hard accertainable fact that she likes me eh, show me the evidence dammit".
Guy:"Wow I was just giving my opinion dude based on what I saw. Anyway wana check out the local nightclub, Ive heard its awesome."
Kingoffelt:"What you ve only heard its awesome, I want Evidence! Evidence godammit!
Guy:"Wow what a loser".
LOL, that was kind of ******ed .. but still funny
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:52 PM   #1829
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Nevermind. You missed the point.
I dont think you have a point. You dont discuss anything in a meaningful way you just see a rigged post and respond by saying: show me the evidence knowing full well there isnt any. Think of something new to post or **** off.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:52 PM   #1830
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Quote:
-Initial luck when joining new site.
-Bonus claim/cashout curse. Winners are not good for business and yes they do pay lots of rake but thats useless if there s no fish to take their profit from.
-Fish cash players rewarded at LOWER limits with outs more than they should when they ve made a mistake. Done by sites to increase rake.
-Fish tourney players again at low limits protected from themselves and stupid all in calls they make. Shoving A9 AIPF for example when you ve made it very clear that you have a premium hand. Again to increase income generated from tourney fee s.
-Bots/house players used probably in an unofficial capacity by sites or with knowledge of the sites to increase profitability.

Bingo
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:53 PM   #1831
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Yes of course the US has drugs but at least they try to do something about it.

Why are you even posting here? Seriously GTFO
I'm just waiting for evidence to be posted. Since you've given your opinion and admitted you will never find evidence what is your purpose here now? I'd be happy to discuss any sort data (larger than a few hands) that shows some sort of anomaly.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:55 PM   #1832
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I dont think you have a point. You dont discuss anything in a meaningful way you just see a rigged post and respond by saying: show me the evidence knowing full well there isnt any. Think of something new to post or **** off.
The point was your analogical script was faulty. But you obviously missed that. I ask you though, what is the purpose of discussing whether or not online poker is rigged if we aren't going to examine any evidence? Seems pretty futile.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:59 PM   #1833
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm just waiting for evidence to be posted. Since you've given your opinion and admitted you will never find evidence what is your purpose here now? I'd be happy to discuss any sort data (larger than a few hands) that shows some sort of anomaly.
I have said to you that there wont be mathematical evidence ever that one or other poker sites rng is not random, becouse there are to much money invoulved into this, and if you are doing a billon dollar worth scam you will make sure that it goes right and wont be detected by some online poker addicts. As i said, my stats all are good. No evidence there. But there are just to many ways to **** you up in this game.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:01 PM   #1834
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I see this thread has alot of interest. So what could we do instead is start recolecting hand histories. Open a new thread or something and ask players if they would like to contribute. And give them to people who are able to analyze it.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:03 PM   #1835
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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The point was your analogical script was faulty. But you obviously missed that. I ask you though, what is the purpose of discussing whether or not online poker is rigged if we aren't going to examine any evidence? Seems pretty futile.
What Nic Cage film is your avatar from? Could you change it it really pisses me off.

Im not gonna bother responding to your posts anymore cause your just an evidence demanding bore with nothing to offer in the way of debate.

Ive stated my opinion and why I think that OP os rigged but you wont discuss that as it obviously isnt concrete evidence.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:06 PM   #1836
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Could you remind me again how you showed it would be hard to rig in real time I must have missed/fogotten.
People have gone over it in other threads, but its beside the point. If you come in and make claims, the burden of proof is on you. You can't say "It's rigged, and if you think it isn't, prove it."
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Ive come to my conclusions after years of playing online and seeing unlikely events too often.
If this is the case, it would be beyond easy to prove with Pokertracker or HEM. Yet so far no one has shown proof. How odd.
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Also these online gambling sites are often based in the same places that drug dealing and other illegal enterprises operate out of like Costa Rica/Cyprus/Isle of Mann etc. Id be a lot less suspicious if they were properly regulated and based on the mainland in reputable locations.
Yes, those crafty Manx are known for their shady business.
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Im not gonna bother responding to your posts anymore cause your just an evidence demanding bore with nothing to offer in the way of debate.
This is a joke, right?
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:10 PM   #1837
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I have said to you that there wont be mathematical evidence ever that one or other poker sites rng is not random, becouse there are to much money invoulved into this, and if you are doing a billon dollar worth scam you will make sure that it goes right and wont be detected by some online poker addicts. As i said, my stats all are good. No evidence there. But there are just to many ways to **** you up in this game.
I will accept that there are ways that deals could be rigged which are subtle enough to be very unlikely to be detected by players collaborating on reviewing hand histories. However, even those manipulations would show up in a large sample that includes millions of hand histories with all hole cards, such as the one Poker Stars recently gave to Cigital. And many types of trickery would also show up in the databases that track player stats, like HSDB or PTR, even though they don't have all hole cards.

The people who have those large databases could do whatever evaluations they wanted to, and it would take very skillful and subtle manipulation to not show up in databases of that size. Poker sites making bucketfuls of money running an honest business would be pretty stupid to do something that is bound to be eventually detected and kill their golden goose. But just as importantly, I don't accept that any site could keep such manipulation a secret for years. Too many people would have to have knowledge of it, and as far as I know present and former poker site employees haven't been suffering mysterious accidental deaths. When I start seeing that in the news, I'll get suspicious.

Edit - and regardless of what people say about the regulatory agencies, I believe the jurisdictions regulating the larger sites actually do their job of making sure the game is fair. See this post:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...t=#post9773771

Last edited by spadebidder; 04-07-2009 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:10 PM   #1838
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I have said to you that there wont be mathematical evidence ever that one or other poker sites rng is not random, becouse there are to much money invoulved into this, and if you are doing a billon dollar worth scam you will make sure that it goes right and wont be detected by some online poker addicts. As i said, my stats all are good. No evidence there. But there are just to many ways to **** you up in this game.
There is no such thing as a "rigged" system that can trick probability. The sooner you get a grasp on probability theory and realize why the sooner you can try to become productive in this debate.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:11 PM   #1839
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Could you remind me again how you showed it would be hard to rig in real time I must have missed/fogotten.
herejugobuddee
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:12 PM   #1840
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Jesus there's been like 200 posts in this thread today.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:13 PM   #1841
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If online poker is rigged in the way he is speaking of with
"timing" than the average player would not have the resources to prove such a statistical inprobability. Not only that, but in order for you to use these statistics as evidence of a "rigging" you would need a VERY LARGE sample size (way more then a million) for them to be credible. Like the op in that thread has stated with his theory of "timing", there are numerous occurrences (examples - on the bubble, when shortstacked, etc.) that these occurr so that complicates things even more.
Point being - if online poker is "rigged" it will not be easy to uncover. Most audits do not even look for such inconsistencies.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:14 PM   #1842
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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This is a joke, right?
I think Sooper is serious. I guess he is used to those debates where evidence was not a factor. I hadn't heard of these types of debates before, but I did a little research and found some video of one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPiaN1hYidU
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:15 PM   #1843
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If online poker is rigged in the way he is speaking of with
"timing" than the average player would not have the resources to prove such a statistical inprobability. Not only that, but in order for you to use these statistics as evidence of a "rigging" you would need a VERY LARGE sample size (way more then a million) for them to be credible. Like the op in that thread has stated with his theory of "timing", there are numerous occurrences (examples - on the bubble, when shortstacked, etc.) that these occurr so that complicates things even more.
Point being - if online poker is "rigged" it will not be easy to uncover. Most audits do not even look for such inconsistencies.

Well it's a good thing that there are well over a million hand histories available (billions on Stars alone). And it's a good thing a study has been conducted on these hand histories which showed no statistical anomalies. A little research goes a long way.

Also, when you say "most audits do not even look for such inconsistencies" which audits are you referring to? (I'm sure you'll avoid this question)
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:17 PM   #1844
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Point being - if online poker is "rigged" it will not be easy to uncover. Most audits do not even look for such inconsistencies.
then you better start crackin', son!

or, alternatively, you could just not play and be quiet about that choice.

OR, you can not play and keep making worthless shots at me 'cause of some unknown slight in the past which you're not even man enough to confront me about - which is probably due to some shady dealings of some sort or another.

but whatever's good for you. live and let live, that's my motto.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:19 PM   #1845
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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And it's a good thing a study has been conducted on these hand histories which showed no statistical anomalies
So what your saying is that Cigital audited to see how many times player A and B were busted while on the bubble? You are wrong. You're the one that should do the research

Quote:
OR, you can not play and keep making worthless shots at me 'cause of some unknown slight in the past which you're not even man enough to confront me about - which is probably due to some shady dealings of some sort or another.
I take shots at you because you take shots at everyone else and it annoys me, really. The way you respond to things is pretty ignorant/childish and it seems like you're always trying to be funny in some way at others expense..grow up
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:19 PM   #1846
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If online poker is rigged in the way he is speaking of with
"timing" than the average player would not have the resources to prove such a statistical inprobability. Not only that, but in order for you to use these statistics as evidence of a "rigging" you would need a VERY LARGE sample size (way more then a million) for them to be credible. Like the op in that thread has stated with his theory of "timing", there are numerous occurrences (examples - on the bubble, when shortstacked, etc.) that these occurr so that complicates things even more.
Point being - if online poker is "rigged" it will not be easy to uncover. Most audits do not even look for such inconsistencies.
Exactly, If someone could take 1M hands of specific stack sizes on specific tournament blind levels, i think we could get something out of it. But .. As i mentioned you could open a thread on 2+2 and ask all players who are willing to contribute their hand histories to do such thing. And not only constant winners, i am also refering to players that has negative ROI. You actually could make 2 of those analyzis. The ones who are winning, and those who are losing that way you would be able to deny a favored accounts theory.

Would it be very hard to do ?
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:21 PM   #1847
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Also, when you say "most audits do not even look for such inconsistencies" which audits are you referring to? (I'm sure you'll avoid this question)
The ones who audited FT, UB and few other sites for ex. I think its called KGC
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:27 PM   #1848
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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So what your saying is that Cigital audited to see how many times player A and B were busted while on the bubble? You are wrong. You're the one that should do the research
They analyzed hundred of millions of hands and while the primary goal was to see when hands were won, they still could have seen a lot of statistical anomalies. Which they did not. But at least they tried, which is more than you have done so far.

Also, not surprisingly you forgot to answer the below.

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Also, when you say "most audits do not even look for such inconsistencies" which audits are you referring to? (I'm sure you'll avoid this question)
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:27 PM   #1849
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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The ones who audited FT, UB and few other sites for ex. I think its called KGC
They didn't audit either FT or Stars. Stars has no relationship to KGC, and FT just uses their affiliated ISP (MIT) to host servers for North America. The regulatory and auditing agencies are here:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...t=#post9773771
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:28 PM   #1850
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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The ones who audited FT, UB and few other sites for ex. I think its called KGC
I haven't seen those reports. Feel free to link to them as surely you have read them.
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