Perhaps you should stop giving dozens of sites your money if you don't trust them.

No, you see, this is why the only way to tackle this problem is to analyse the outcome (hand data).

Otherwise you don't know where in the chain to look and even if you do a fully comprehensive audit people will still question the competence, independence and honesty of the auditors.

This is why tk1133's obsession about regulation is a red herring.

No matter how heavy the regulation were to be there is always the possibility that ne'er-do-wells will corrupt the deal.

And then it will be down to people like Josem, Spadebidder and others of us who analyse HH's to show up the bad guys.

Too obvious.

Hey thanks for agreeing I may not have a clue . Funny even someone said I may have 1/2 a clue too . LOL I am as honest as anyone here and don't really like to take jabs at anyone in particular . I just stated what I thought might be of help . If that needs to be seen as something you need to say about myself you are to late to tell me something I may already know. Not sure what it says about you but I have some ideas on that as well .

It's safe and rational to assume that Random audits, on a regular basis, would convice your opposition. Fair? Is this the case?

And anybody that defrauds another player be subject to criminal prosecution and fines. Fair? Is this true?

Fair but far, far, from true.

What do you mean is it true? It hasn't happened.

Obviously people who commit fraud should expect to be sanctioned.

Ok , if I thought it would help I would send the history of every hand I played or MTT I entered . I would like to think my game is evolving so using my data to play against me may not be of much help so I don't worry about that . All I could ask is that it be used for your cause and used for that reason only . Help me do that or show me how and I will . As far as the need to sanction anyone who may commit abuses I agree . Thanks

Agree'd. But has this happened? This my problem. Now, am I saying that poker sites are a bunch of tyrants hitting doom switches and seizing funds with out merit? No. But it comes with the territory and responsibility of managing billions of dollars with no oversight.

Not one time have I seen any evidence of a player or employee prosecuted or "sanctioned," at any level, for defrauding another player/s. What stops somebody? Getting their account closed, money seized? Then what does the villian do? Erase his hard drive and create a new account till the next one gets closed...

Literally a "wild west" affair. This is why the thread shows 33% that the RNG is rigged. Misconceptions...

I wish you would stop saying 'no oversight' since this simply is not true.

Was it not the case that the people involved in the AP/UB scandal were in league with the owners - if not the owners per se?

You can never guarantee that wrongdoers will face justice. Often the company concerned is happier just to sack them and brush the dirt under the carpet. Even if it means taking a temporary hit on their profits.

Don't think that more regulation is in any way a panacea to cure any ills you may suspect that online poker suffers. That is a misconception.

Apart from anything else, far and away the main concerns of people on this site are things such as short stackers, time banks, CS and HUD's.

Not the sort of thing that extra regulation is likely to affect.

Not at all.

The poker sites - certainly the larger ones - are regulated pretty effectively by the market. And isn't that 'The American Way'?

Well, PokerStars had a full audit of their RNG and associated systems conducted and published last week so I think that's a pretty bizarre question as it relates to PS.

wtf does this even mean?

What would the scope of said audit be? The RNG? The whole server side game software? All server side software, including non-game-related code? The client software? Other software running on user machines? All software used by the organization? What would the nature of the audit be - source code inspection, process inspection, independent black box testing?

Even the most extensive audit possible will not provide the assurance demanded by the riggies. And the costs would be astronomical.

Seriously, apply Occam's razor. If you wanted to defraud players, which would you most likely choose:

- Somehow get yourself embedded in a firm that develops gaming software. Buy off the QA team at your firm. Buy of the QA team at the site that you're selling software to. Manipulate the software to provide you an edge (that necessarily has to be razor thin, in order to be undetectable) that is undetectable by statistical analysis at extremely high sample sizes.

or

- Find a group of like-minded individuals. Engage in collusive play. Hopefully stay under the radar of statistical play analysis done by the sites (which probably means playing at really low levels, where the typical player is largely random)

or

- Find somebody who is skilled at malware development and distribution. Steal teh passwordz. Dump teh chipz.

or

- Find somebody who is skilled at malware development and distribution. Sniff their hole cards. Send them to yourself.


Yes, this should be the case. And anybody that steals money from somebody else online should be subject to criminal prosecution and fines. Does it always work out that way? not so much.

I've noticed that riggies like to put words together as if their sentences might look more intelligent or threatening in some way. Usually it just adds garbage to the heap they've already created. Some of these people probably failed miserably at school. Now they're just failing miserably at life.


Like I've said before, most of these people deserve to lose. And I hope they do

My theory has always been similar to JH1's comment.
I can't stand the ridiculously over used saying "only at Jokerstars"

Who Posted? Total Posts: 17,777

User Name	Posts
qpw	1,627
spadebidder	1,026
Monteroy	811
tk1133	783

And you haven't even been here as long as this thread has.

But I have, and a couple hundred of mine weren't posted in this merged thread. I probably have about 700 or so in here directly though, which is way too many still. This thread started over a year ago iirc.

Feck.

I'd hoped no one would notice that.

2 years this July FWIW.

If it makes you feel any better, that's less than 3 posts/day. A lot of the riggies who come in here on a rampage and then leave or get banned are well over 10/day.

I notice the poll on top offers only a black and white choice . When I first came here I was looking for some other peoples thoughts on this subject . I stated I had feelings both ways at times . I still cannot be certain but do see some efforts being made to find any evidence of abuse even though they may not be a believer of any rigging happening . I did not come here to say it is . I wanted to offer ideas on improvements if possible and some way I thought cheating may be possible if at all . I admitted that I did not have a clue about the truth of any allegations but someone was quick to point that statement out as if they were just here to dis any statement made or capitalize on someone who was making an honest opinion they had if it fit their objectives. That was not quite what I expected but am not surprised . I have to rely on the fact that it is not rigged without proof . I did not vote in a box on top as it offered no "uncertain" checkbox for sentiment . I said all I can or want to on this subject and hope you keep up the good work as watchdog for integrity . I know the game fleeting at best . I will just watch this ongoing "attraction" as I like to read what may be and has been said . Either way I will offer my opinion if I find it valid and productive . If in the end the goal is to chase away anyone who is not always in agreement or only has ideas then the person who found it necessary to point of that I may have not had any clue on parts of this thread is right but I will avoid anything he says in the future . I was a bit angered by the comment and give him credit for being nothing more than someone who probably retaliates at those who he may find an easy target , even though off the mark . The discontent probably started at home for him and maybe he needs someone to take it out on . I pity those close to him if he has family . I accept it this once and will not expose myself to ridicule by those who lurk here . If I was a liar I would have liked to have been been called just that .

This seems relevant:

Was playing 4nl HU while short stacking with 80 cents.

I'm on the button with As5s, min raise to induce bluff. I get 3bet, so I 4bet-bluff by shipping.

Villain shows up with AA first hand of the match

That is not supposed to happen

so ******g rigged... feck you ABS

lol

[x] Confirmed rigged, call the cops!

I can't help it so here goes another: LOL

im trying really hard to get good at this HU game, here is the HH

what did i do wrong?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.02(BB) Replayer
($0.80)
Hero ($0.80)

Dealt to Hero 5 A

Hero raises to $0.04, raises to $0.08, Hero raises to $0.80 (AI), calls $0.72 (AI)

FLOP ($1.60) 9 T 6

TURN ($1.60) 9 T 6 4

RIVER ($1.60) 9 T 6 4 9

shows A A
(Pre 87%, Flop 98.9%, Turn 100.0%)

Hero shows 5 A
(Pre 13%, Flop 1.1%, Turn 0.0%)

wins $1.44


I listen to "no money HU, everyone's solid" as my theme song while playing on ABS, maybe i should change to shakira? she has a nice ass i guess