ZOMG, I HAZ PROOF!

See, the dealing mechanism and the hardware RNG are creating random shuffles, and if the sites just used those, then everything would be fine. BUT the sites didn't send a full system complete with the "Riggenator9000" module which takes those random results, manipulates them so they're still random, but somehow deals winning hands to the fish more often to help the short stacks, I mean the big stacks, I mean the losing players stay in the game.

PWN3D!!111ONE!21!

That Riggenator 9000, what a genius invention, I keep trying to figure out how it works but it's so slick, I can't.

It rigs the deal in such a way that keen observers can spot the patterns and know it is not random, but it cleverly evades detection of those patterns with statistical analysis of hand histories.

It's quite amazing actually. Kind of like that tiny teapot....

Everyone become vegetarian for one month, and let's take that ****ing clown down!

I am a firm believer in math but in the end all of this to me comes across just like the Bernie Madoff story. 1 or 2 guys insisting Madoff was up to something they get fired(banned). They couldnt really prove it because the logistics blocked access to the real data. The SEC and everyone else(Defenders) kept pointing to his "numbers" being legit in the books and how he had too much to lose to be a ponzi scheme. Then suddenly one day BAM>crash and burn and the riggies were right. If history has proven anything its that the riggies are only wrong until we find out that they are ALWAYS right.

100% why I booked $200 at 25 to 1 that online poker gets exposed within 5 years. 100%.

Wait, what?

You must read some strange history books.

There were lots of people that knew Madoff was crooked way back, because they looked at the data and had the evidence. He got away with his scheme for 15 years or more but people who actually investigated it knew about it. People like Dr. Ed Thorpe (yes that one) knew it in the 90s. If there were evidence that online poker was rigged, it wouldn't be ignored like that, because it would be affecting millions of players instead of a few dozen hedge funds and a few hundred rich investors (a few thousand over the 18 or so years he ran his scheme). That's why Madoff got away with it for so long. He didn't have to fool many people, and a lot of those who caught on just pulled out their money and went elsewhere. And all his investors but the ones on the tail end really did make money, so they didn't care. That's how ponzi schemes work.

Just the ones with the facts.

Ever hear of Hitler? a lot of people were calling rigged but no one listened until 15 jews were killed.

Ever hear of the Roman Empire? No one thought they were doomed(aka rigged) until the Mongols stormed in adnd torched Rome.

Ever hear of Enron?
Ever hear of Oliver North?
Ever hear of Eastern airlines?

The list is endless my friend.

PikachuDemolisher

LOL, I hope this is a joke.

Actually, some who investigated did not figure it out, like the SEC.

lol.... the mind of a riggie

If we're going to be making analogies....

UB/AP is to Madoff as all FTP/Stars is to all other investment companies

Grow up people.

Well Thorpe along with the other SEC guy played the role of rigtards. No one listened to him. If the SEC is willing to turn their eyes away from one of a thousand fund guys, you dont think that the gaming commision at the ISLE OF MAN would be willing to for their biggest client?

I also contest the idea that Joe Schmoe cares more about his 100$ poker deposit than would a billionaire being taken for a ride.

Awesome. Of course you'll have no problem linking to your previous live cashes then?

Yeah, I added an important edit to my post after you quoted, which at least partly explains that.

Superuser scandal that cost players millions
Pokerinstructor embezzles hundreds of thousands
Stoxpoker in middle of giant MAing scandal
Winner of WCOOP ME forfeits funds for cheating
FTP pros get caught MAing/datamining

All these within the last two years?

Online poker isn't corrupt at all!

bc no other companies have ever done anything wrong

Has anyone ever said that, here or anywhere? Please link to quote.

Well the problem is I oversold lots last year and it turned out to be more profitable to just lose on the first day.

Do you bury your money in your backyard because of all the banking scandals? Do you not invest in the stock market because of all of the insider trading cases?

Sorry, don't buy it.

That sounds like an excellent deal

That is the cherry on top. It sounds like people got their moneys worth last year. Count me in!!!

Well I admit poor planning by underexpectation of demand. That is why this year only 5 full units will be made available.

Riggies: no one is saying that it can't be rigged! But all you guys want to do is discuss possible motives and imagine undetectable schemes. You also want to just posit that not knowing all the hole cards makes it impossible to figure out if the deal is legit. Spade, Josem and others have provided reasons why that isn't necesarily the case (at least to the point of being able to identify a problem). Not one riggie has advanced an argument as to why they are wrong (aside from just saying: you're wrong and repeating you need the hole cards).

If you're really concerned, consult some math guys to either agree with Spade, or not agree. The fact is, in online poker there is a tremendous amount of data just lying there waiting to be analyzed. If you think there is a problem: come up with a hypothesis and test it.

What good does it do to just repeat over and over again that its crooked without doing any actual research?

You say there are shills. Who cares? The ideas speak for themselves. If you disagree, explain why. But just imagining problems that may not be there helps no-one.

TK says that the "shills" want ridiculous back-and-forth. Not true: the "shills" want calm, rational debate. When that's not offered, the insults fly.