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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

03-13-2010 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Perhaps you should decide what is biased in advance of testing rather than after you don't like the results?



says the guy who didn't understand how you could be down in EV and up in BB
we were debating on if that test would be relevant or not and spade just went and did it anyways. After conseration, it is obvious that you cannot put any stock into it bc the data is biased toward weighting the pot.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 07:29 PM
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
I started reading from where I left off, which is somewhere around here, and my intention was to give props to AMEC when I saw this. I still will for some of his posts, even though things went a little weird after that.

I have some respect for him for a few reasons - he put up the money for his prop bet, he produced hand histories, and in this quote above he turned away money he didn’t believe he had won.


And the response all started so reasonably.


So how the **** did we get here? How could you possibly be more convinced it’s rigged? Yes, you’ve been shown to be running poorly, but nothing even close to proving anything is rigged. And then you were shown to be winning more money AI than expected. I’m not sure why this was so hard to believe. You suggested that you might be winning less money because you could be winning the small pots and losing the large ones...why is it so unfathomable that the opposite could be happening?

Since this analysis was far from all-encompassing, as we knew it would be, I could see you being undecided or unconvinced. But more sure that it’s rigged? Makes no sense to me unless you’re just trolling.

One more thing; I’m surprised no one called you out on this:






Three quotes up was what you said in response to Spade. You quoted him, and then said that. So if you weren’t talking to him, who were you talking to?
?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 07:37 PM
AMEC is officially on my ignore list now. I honestly can't believe how much sincere help he got in this thread, from spade, myself, and many others, and the way he's conducting himself in the face of all of it.

The guy clearly knows less about statistics than most of us but yet wants to overstate the significance of the tests done and turn it into some kind of brag now? Well buddy not only are you an idiot, you have no class either. Just PM me when you win your prop bet. Until then, good riddance.
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03-13-2010 , 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20
AMEC is officially on my ignore list now. I honestly can't believe how much sincere help he got in this thread, from spade, myself, and many others, and the way he's conducting himself in the face of all of it.

The guy clearly knows less about statistics than most of us but yet wants to overstate the significance of the tests done and turn it into some kind of brag now? Well buddy not only are you an idiot, you have no class either. Just PM me when you win your prop bet. Until then, good riddance.
exactly what help have you or anyone other than spade contributed?
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03-13-2010 , 07:49 PM
I've thanked spade numerous times for the time he spent. But he simply doesnt have what it takes to do a complete/full analysis to draw any kind of conclusion to.

We can do an analysis on how often I hit my draw on the turn. What if Im running in the bottom 5% in this analysis?

Then we can do one on card distrubuation in the BB. What if Im running in the bottom 5% in this?

you can on and on but at some point when the results keep coming back dirty, then what?

How many times before yuo say "wait a minute here, something is up".
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03-13-2010 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
exactly what help have you or anyone other than spade contributed?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
I've thanked spade numerous times for the time he spent. But he simply doesnt have what it takes to do a complete/full analysis to draw any kind of conclusion to.

We can do an analysis on how often I hit my draw on the turn. What if Im running in the bottom 5% in this analysis?

Then we can do one on card distrubuation in the BB. What if Im running in the bottom 5% in this?

you can on and on but at some point when the results keep coming back dirty, then what?

How many times before yuo say "wait a minute here, something is up".
The best thing to come out of this is your prop bet. You got your money in good, win or lose.

Next best thing is the numbers confirmed what you suspected, and I don't think you have to be "rainman" to have good intuition.
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03-13-2010 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
LOL
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03-13-2010 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoMoos
The best thing to come out of this is your prop bet. You got your money in good, win or lose.

Next best thing is the numbers confirmed what you suspected, and I don't think you have to be "rainman" to have good intuition.
You're just having fun with him right? Because on both those points its pretty much the opposite. If you disagree I'm sure like pooflinger you can articulate how Spade's analysis shows that it was rigged.
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03-13-2010 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
because the BB data is irrelevant and it is based off of biased data, anybody with any knowledge of statistics knows this.

I had one big score. Take that score out and Im still in the top 99%.
This is the 2nd time you have done this. How can you make judgments on anyone's ability to analyze hand histories when you don't even understand the difference between "top 99%" and "top 1%".

HINT: 99% of poker players are in the top 99%.
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03-13-2010 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt
This is the 2nd time you have done this. How can you make judgments on anyone's ability to analyze hand histories when you don't even understand the difference between "top 99%" and "top 1%".

HINT: 99% of poker players are in the top 99%.
lol morans
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03-13-2010 , 10:54 PM
top99%aments
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 11:58 PM
Well, have just bothered to download all the HH's now while I've been catching up on this thread and found it most enlightening.

Based on abuifegbwijhb0803927's attitude since Spade did his analysis I am inclined to not even bother with doing mine but I think I still will, if only to test some things for myself. I know I certainly won't be as nice as Spade was with what I release given that we have full permission to release any data from those hands we wish to.

I also am not going to be in a rush to get it out now, it will get done when I get around to it, but I will clear up one misconception you have....you didnt get any of this work done for free, you just are too clueless to realise you gave people that can be playing against you 300k hands of data on yourself without them even having to put in the hours sitting at a table with you.
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03-14-2010 , 12:27 AM
stfu
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03-14-2010 , 02:08 AM
******s still spewing nonsensical nonsense itt?
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03-14-2010 , 02:54 AM
This message is hidden because AMEC0404 is on your ignore list.
This message is hidden because pooflinger is on your ignore list.


I feel so much better now, seriously. I tried to reasonably communicate with them long enough.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-14-2010 , 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooflinger
stfu
If this is all you have to say, maybe you should just retire from posting.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-14-2010 , 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20
This message is hidden because AMEC0404 is on your ignore list.
Wait. Don't you still have an open bet with this guy?

He might still find evidence of rigging, such as his interpretation of his all-in results. You should have let me buy you out of the bet.

Anyway, enjoy being married to this clown.
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03-14-2010 , 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
Well, have just bothered to download all the HH's now while I've been catching up on this thread and found it most enlightening.

Based on abuifegbwijhb0803927's attitude since Spade did his analysis I am inclined to not even bother with doing mine but I think I still will, if only to test some things for myself. I know I certainly won't be as nice as Spade was with what I release given that we have full permission to release any data from those hands we wish to.

I also am not going to be in a rush to get it out now, it will get done when I get around to it, but I will clear up one misconception you have....you didnt get any of this work done for free, you just are too clueless to realise you gave people that can be playing against you 300k hands of data on yourself without them even having to put in the hours sitting at a table with you.
I believe I said you were not allowed to share the HHs with ANY third parties whatsoever under any circumstance. You share them with anyone and I sue you, end of story.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-14-2010 , 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Evans
Wait. Don't you still have an open bet with this guy?

He might still find evidence of rigging, such as his interpretation of his all-in results. You should have let me buy you out of the bet.

Anyway, enjoy being married to this clown.
When he wins the bet he can PM me, I'll still pay up. He just can't be reasoned with any more.

I mean honestly after spadebidder's summary post he doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's funny how he claims we know nothing about statistics when he previously claimed that if he was within 5% on each bucket he'd shut up. Of course, being 5% off would've been so many standard deviations from the norm that really would be evidence of rigging. But of course he didn't know that. He's just living in his own little statistical world.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-14-2010 , 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
I believe I said you were not allowed to share the HHs with ANY third parties whatsoever under any circumstance. You share them with anyone and I sue you, end of story.
1. I never said I was going to share them with anyone, I merely pointed out that you have given at least 2 people 300k hands on how you play without knowing if we're actually regs in your games

2. But..but...but I live in one of those places that don't have any laws or regulations and aren't up to the high standards of US laws, how ever will you be able to sue me?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-14-2010 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
1. I never said I was going to share them with anyone, I merely pointed out that you have given at least 2 people 300k hands on how you play without knowing if we're actually regs in your games

2. But..but...but I live in one of those places that don't have any laws or regulations and aren't up to the high standards of US laws, how ever will you be able to sue me?
well im not worried about you or the other guy knowing how I play. just dont share them
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-14-2010 , 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
We can do an analysis on how often I hit my draw on the turn. What if Im running in the bottom 5% in this analysis?

Then we can do one on card distrubuation in the BB. What if Im running in the bottom 5% in this?

you can on and on but at some point when the results keep coming back dirty, then what?

How many times before yuo say "wait a minute here, something is up".
But they don't "keep coming up dirty" do they. What is the point in continuing to speculate? You think it's rigged becuase you have seen something dirty - test for it - show results - win your bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
You share them with anyone and I sue you, end of story.
Good luck with that.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-14-2010 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
But they don't "keep coming up dirty" do they. What is the point in continuing to speculate? You think it's rigged becuase you have seen something dirty - test for it - show results - win your bet.



Good luck with that.
so far we are 1 for 1 on a study coming up dirty
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