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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

03-12-2010 , 10:46 PM
theres nothing to post there. The percentages of number of pots won compared to percentages of number of BBs won is 100% directly related.

If my equity is 49%, I should win 49% of the total number of pots as well as 49% of the total number of BBs.

Id love to see if I am only .8% under in total number of BBs won. This part of the analysis would go a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way.
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03-12-2010 , 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
theres nothing to post there. The percentages of number of pots won compared to percentages of number of BBs won is 100% directly related.

If my equity is 49%, I should win 49% of the total number of pots as well as 49% of the total number of BBs.
That's true if all pots were equal size in BBs. I've posted the question here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15.../#post17447954

There's also no reason to assume the two would be the same, even if both are random. You could be luckier on big pots than small pots in a particular sample, and vice versa. It doesn't have to match the hand equity result. You're measuring a different thing.
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03-12-2010 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
That's true if all pots were equal size in BBs. I've posted the question here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15.../#post17447954

There's also no reason to assume the two would be the same, even if both are random. You could be luckier on big pots than small pots in a particular sample, and vice versa. It doesn't have to match the hand equity result.
I know they wouldnt be the same, thats what Im saying. Im already running worse than 17 out of 18 people. And that's with only a .8% off of equity in terms of # of pots won. What if I was 2% off on # of BBs won?
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03-12-2010 , 11:07 PM
but what if I am + expoactation too.... that would really go a long way in convincin g me
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03-12-2010 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
I know they wouldnt be the same, thats what Im saying. Im already running worse than 17 out of 18 people.
For samples this size, yes. For all people, no. It's a pretty big sample.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
but what if I am + expoactation too.... that would really go a long way in convincin g me
I'm not convinced yet it's a valid test, I'm researching it.

Last edited by spadebidder; 03-12-2010 at 11:33 PM.
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03-12-2010 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
Here a bit of a brag... I am running worse than 95% of poeple, yet I am ranked in the top 99% of players in MTTs.
I think I know what you meant to say, but claiming to be in the top 99% isn't much of a brag !!
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03-12-2010 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordias
Really? You don’t believe there’s an odds pendulum? Okay, then lets get an impartial computer program to flip a coin a trillion times. I’ll bet you any amount of money that after a trillion flips the result will always be 50%, plus or minus 3%. And you bet that the result will always be outside the plus or minus 3% of 50%. Since you don’t believe in an immutable flow of mathematical probabilities, this should look like a really great bet for you. I only want 6% of all probable outcomes, while you get a whopping 94% of all potential results. Using your logic, this is a big big advantage for you. Please borrow as much money as you can and let’s get started asap.

On the other hand, if the poker room you work for is the one providing our coin flip software, then I absolutely agree for you. There will be no normal expression of mathematical probabilities, or odds pendulum, during each trillion flip session. From what I’ve seen, it will probably end up in the neighborhood of 80% - 20%, or even 90% - 10%. In fact, I would be shocked if it didn’t, at least when you’re flipping against targeted players with software similar to your poker software.

When I first realized what was going on, it surprised me that online poker rooms would be willing to risk driving away some players: the ones who could recognize that the deal wasn’t fully random, who would then quit in disgust. (I still don’t understand why they make it so obvious. I guess they really think we’re stupid.) But like PT Barnum said, “there’s a sucker born every minute.” So I’m sure they weighed their options and decided that it was worth losing a certain percentage of players, because there would always be plenty of “fresh meat,” people who didn’t do their homework and could therefore be taken advantage of.

There is plenty of information out there, both in poker books and from other sources. So don’t be a sucker. Make damn sure you understand mathematical probabilities - before you risk your money - so you don’t get screwed. These are concepts even an eight year old can understand. And unless he’s a complete dullard, even the clown who posted the above moronic statement knows he’s full of BS. He’s being paid to help make sure you never do believe in the math behind games of chance - PARTICULARLY ONLINE POKER!
Dude, it baffles me how somebody can be so sure of themselves when it couldn't be clearer to any other intelligent person how obvious it is that you don't know what you're talking about.
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03-12-2010 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
How many 360K HH sample size streaks of running worse than 95% of people in a row would it take before you began to wonder?

Quite a few, as first thing I would want to be sure is that the statistical test actually proves something significant. While I do applaud spade's work here, I am not entirely certain it would have proven anything in and by itself (think he agrees), because there are a lot of variables that are not part of the simplified results.

Still, if these results happened many times (say 6 in a row) then he would have to look at

- Is his study valid

- What can these results mean if they are extremely unlikely.


The problem you are creating with this paranoid belief structure (which seriously is such a massive hole in your game it is almost stunning) is that you are using it to create worlds where YOU have to be the target of something sinister.

No real gentle way to say this, but YOU do not merit such special attention, nor do I nor do any riggie who posts in this thread.


I'm a 99%+ guy as well , big whoop lots of us out there (power of big numbers again). You got game, just beat the games and leave the paranoia behind you. Every player thinks they are the unluckiest in the world at times (myself included), but the real world does not care what your luck is at all. The sooner you appreciate that, the sooner you will worry less about being the victim of a conspiracy.
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03-13-2010 , 12:02 AM
I dont let my beliefs reflect on my play, this I am sure of. I dont play different bc I think it may be rigged. I doubt I could keep an 80% ROI over 3200 MTTs if I did. I actually play better when Im running horrid.

/brag
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03-13-2010 , 12:07 AM
Now you are trying to say that this study means nothing? You get on my back for weeks to send the HHs in, I do it and now when the results semi-warrent my suspicions you say the test may not matter? No wonder people think the way they do about shills. You guys just have no pride and you;'ll go to any extreme to prove your point, wh

While the results of this study have got me to see soem tihngs I may have been blinded to by my beliefs, the general responses here have really really got me going farther and farther back to my previous beliefs.

The results come back a little suspicious and now Im supposased to just forget aobut it bc its affecting my game? I mean cmon, try not to make it so obvious
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03-13-2010 , 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
I dont let my beliefs reflect on my play, this I am sure of. I dont play different bc I think it may be rigged. I doubt I could keep an 80% ROI over 3200 MTTs if I did. I actually play better when Im running horrid.

/brag
AMEC - I've let several comments like that go, but I have your results and your permission in a PM to post them. I don't want to embarrass you, but your record is not what you have been claiming.
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03-13-2010 , 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
AMEC - I've let several comments like that go, but I have your results and your permission in a PM to post them. I don't want to embarrass you, but your record is not what you have been claiming.
Ummmmm, yes it is. Sharkscope me. OPR me.

http://officialpokerrankings.com/pok...2B330.html?t=2

what else do you want?
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03-13-2010 , 12:12 AM
please emabarrass me... lets do it.
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03-13-2010 , 12:13 AM
AMEC04 on Stars.
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03-13-2010 , 12:14 AM
Ive never claimed to be a winner at cash games on Stars. I know I am a loser, probably a big one.
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03-13-2010 , 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
Sorry dude. Here is your entire tourney record only, no cash. This is the accurate record provided by Stars to you a couple days ago, regardless of what any tracking site might say. Your tourney ROI is -43%, and for the last 3200 tourneys it is -41%.

its pretty much wellknown that HEM and/or PT3 are horrid at tracking wins and losses in terms of $$$$$$$$$$.

LOL @ you.

So you are saying that OPR and sharkscope have my ROI off my 120%?

honestly, you just lost all credibility with me. I was kind of skeptical how much you actually think you know about numbers, logic, and statistics, but now you've just blown that doors right off.

GG man, I appreciate your time and all, but hoesntly, you are starting to come across as a pretender
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03-13-2010 , 12:30 AM
why did u erase it?
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03-13-2010 , 12:30 AM
I posted your tourney record and then deleted it. It doesn't resemble the AMEC04 on OPR at all. And I'm looking at the hands sent to you a couple days ago by Stars. I'll check and see if HEM did something wrong.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
Now you are trying to say that this study means nothing? You get on my back for weeks to send the HHs in, I do it and now when the results semi-warrent my suspicions you say the test may not matter? No wonder people think the way they do about shills. You guys just have no pride and you;'ll go to any extreme to prove your point, wh

While the results of this study have got me to see soem tihngs I may have been blinded to by my beliefs, the general responses here have really really got me going farther and farther back to my previous beliefs.

The results come back a little suspicious and now Im supposased to just forget aobut it bc its affecting my game? I mean cmon, try not to make it so obvious


Again, let me say that I did find spade's willingness to do this work and the results pretty interesting in that they show what many of us expected - that this fellow's belief of how unlucky he is was magnified in his mind as many players will often do.


I will also say that I am a bit disappointed but not too surprised to see he is basically a complete douchebag as well, and for those who wonder why I tend to be a lot less patient/nice with the paranoid, whiners or the guys like this then maybe this helps explain why.

He is a complete douche and all you get for helping a complete douche is eventually this.


I think spade is incorrect with saying this guy is -40% ROI, the tracking sites are not that wrong. This guy has won (though more than half of the winnings was a single MTt), and lately he has spewed back 5-6k, so he is probably playing poorly, and is a bit unlucky and that has added up to him being a whiny douche that unfortunately got more attention and help than he ever deserved.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 12:32 AM
god I feel really satisfied. Pretty much obvious I pwned all of you
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Again, let me say that I did find spade's willingness to do this work and the results pretty interesting in that they show what many of us expected - that this fellow's belief of how unlucky he is was magnified in his mind as many players will often do.


I will also say that I am a bit disappointed but not too surprised to see he is basically a complete douchebag as well, and for those who wonder why I tend to be a lot less patient/nice with the paranoid, whiners or the guys like this then maybe this helps explain why.

He is a complete douche and all you get for helping a complete douche is eventually this.


I think spade is incorrect with saying this guy is -40% ROI, the tracking sites are not that wrong. This guy has won (though more than half of the winnings was a single MTt), and lately he has spewed back 5-6k, so he is probably playing poorly, and is a bit unlucky and that has added up to him being a whiny douche that unfortunately got more attention and help than he ever deserved.

All the best.
When all else fails, resort to name calling and childish playground BS. GG sir, consider yourself pwned.

Seriously, you shills are just looking worse and worse. Id seriously just stfu now and hope and pray I go away.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
I think spade is incorrect with saying this guy is -40% ROI, the tracking sites are not that wrong. This guy has won (though more than half of the winnings was a single MTt), and lately he has spewed back 5-6k, so he is probably playing poorly, and is a bit unlucky and that has added up to him being a whiny douche that unfortunately got more attention and help than he ever deserved.
I'm not an HEM user, I just showed what it says, imported from a complete set of hand histories that came directly from Stars. I see that it is probably wrong on prize results, but I've done nothing here but try to be helpful. I deleted the post.

Last edited by spadebidder; 03-13-2010 at 12:43 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
god I feel really satisfied. Pretty much obvious I pwned all of you
huh? This was some kind of level?
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03-13-2010 , 12:37 AM
lol did he only send the hands from his losing donkaments?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-13-2010 , 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
huh? This was some kind of level?
No, he is running bad lately. His behavior is how a douche wins a debate in his mind, nothing more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
god I feel really satisfied. Pretty much obvious I pwned all of you
Not really. I am pretty sure nobody will question whether my mean shill routine is ever appropriate again in the future.

And I won $5

And you are down about 5-6k recently and are continuing nicely on that tilt/whine/paranoid/riggie results path.


Keep up the good work


Quote:
Originally Posted by AMEC0404
When all else fails, resort to name calling and childish playground BS. GG sir, consider yourself pwned.

Seriously, you shills are just looking worse and worse. Id seriously just stfu now and hope and pray I go away.
Heh, I have dealt with guys like you all the time, and I know pretty much how much your adreneline rush of trash talk can last. Your ego and emotions are your biggest weakness and always will be, and the more you continue to post in your "rush" state the more I smile.

You are proving the very simple theory on guys like you, you think you matter and you mistake short term attention as a means of validating that belief.

These other guys are nice, too nice to properly handle a douche like you, but I know what makes you tick, so whenever I want I can turn you into my bitch just like I did to that onlineguy . I just have not decided if that will amuse me or not.

All the best.



P.S. spade, that was a solid piece of work in what it showed (douches think they run worse than they do when they whine). This guy does not even matter in that regard.

Last edited by Monteroy; 03-13-2010 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Forgot all the best
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