I make my living off of online poker. Ive played more hands of online poker on more sites than probably 99% of the posters on here. I've missed probably 60 days total since early 2002. Ive played for real money on probably every site you can name, pre and post US ban. I have taken and passed math classes in college that people here can't even fathom. I scored a perfect 36 on the math portion of the ACT in high school. I've talked to numerous live poker pros who do not play online bc they believe it is rigged. Every person Ive talked to in the casino believes online poker is rigged. Almost every poll on the internet asking if you believe online poker is rigged is heavily in favor of the rigged side. I know numerous online pros who question how much variance there really is in poker.

There is only one thing I am sure of... the RNG is, in some way, manipulated.

The only people out there who say its legit are the ones who profit off of it being legit

I agree to ship another $50 for Josem to the previously shipped to acct.

and thats all I am willing to bet for now. Now when Stars lets me ship another MTT after I let them rake me for a month, I may have some more to offer.

I have the feeling a rigtard will have a wildly differing definition of "news" than most others.

Cool, thanks AMEC. Good luck at the tables.

That's cool.

shippaments

Winning players?

I've shipped Josem his $50, will check to ensure I got mine later but assume there'll be no issues as there was no problem the last time. Off to grab a 5 AM dinner now. Good luck to all parties involved.

i guess i should have said "profit off of the idea of it being legit"

ship $100 to iopq on stars
if it's a well-publicized scandal like absolute poker, I'll be glad to ship you $2500

if not, I'll enjoy my free $100
god knows I already lost more than that in prop bets, need to take some +EV ones instead

anybody want the same offer for ultimate bet?

lol I'd need WAY better odds on Ultimate Bet.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think rng problems are likely there either. I think if a site is going to scam people out of money there are much better ways of doing it than messing with the randomness of cards. Just ask the superusers.

Hard to believe this thread spawned 150+ posts

Juk

I believe everything you see on the outside appears to be random. I believe you get delt AA 1/220 hands. I believe you will win half your races. Basically, I believe the better players win the money in the long run. I think it takes the beytter players longer to win than it should and I think the worse players lose slower than they should. I believe the RNG has one thing in mind... Keeping the maximum number of players playing for the maximum length of time and still looking random to the naked analysis. MAX player for MAX time = MAX rake (profit). Ask yourself this question... If poker site "x" could manipulate certain key hands in order to increaes overall prfoit by 20%, with next to zero chance of being caught, do you think they would do it? No audits and no one has access to enough HHs to do any kind of hardcore situational analysis.

A study we need is some sort of sophisticated situational analysis of all in preflop hands. I want to know how many times the longterm profitable player wins races vs. the new/losing player all in preflop on the money bubble or near the end of a MTT. I want to know how often the losing/shortstack/fullrolling player wins the AIPF vs. the regualr seasoned pro when the loser/shortstack/fullroller has the last of his $$$$ in the pot in a cash game. It is all situational, and I believe that a study will come out within the next 5 years or that someone will blow the whistle.

I hate UB. 3 to 1 odds? Probably need a stipulation that "manipulation of the RNG" doesn't mean more superusers.

Arguments like this one are constantly being brought up in the rigged thread and discussed. I think if something like this was being done it couldn't possibly increase profit by 20%. As a matter of fact a contest has been implemented over there that if you can come up with an undetectable way to rig games in such a way where you can even demonstrate a 5% increase, you can win $500.

I have a feeling this thread will eventually get merged into that one by the way, especially if we're shifting from prop bet discussion to riggedness discussion at this point.

I'm surprised mumu was banned. I don't think he was a gimmick because I Googled him and he (someone) posts under that name elsewhere and it seems to match up with things he has said here. He was capable of making an argument, albeit a wrong one, and he was trying. I did see where he seemed to start making some troll posts too, but still. I must have missed something.

I mean everyone pretty much knows it is rigged, that's the misconception. Most people that have anything to do with poker know it is rigged. The majority of the population believe it is rigged. Im just banking on the actual proof getting out some time within 5 years. i hoesntly canyt believe anyone toolk this bet tbh. If only one out of 3 pays me Ill be happy as a fish in the sea.

I've seen far worse and more pointless posts, and I've seen a great deal more trolling on both sides of the argument in this thread than Mumu ever did. I've never seen anyone banned for being trollish or obnoxious, and Mumu wasn't either of those things to any degree, at least not when compared to others ITT. He seems to have been singled out.

It's disappointing to see this behavior from 2p2.

I think I was second but you didn't accept my bet.

As for "most people", if you count people who both play regularly and understand the math, and thus have an informed opinion, you would be wrong. I doubt 5% of those really believe it like you do, and maybe another 10% might have doubts but not enough to care or dwell on it. You are using a very common logical bias to make those statements, thinking that "most people" see things like you do, because it's like duh common sense in your eyes. It isn't.

If he was was a previously banned gimmick account, then I really have no sympathy. That crap has gone on far too long. If he was legitimately just one guy making the posts he was making, then I'd have more expected a warning or a tempban. It WAS deserved especially once he started new pointless threads that were clearly created with no constructive purpose. Sorry but the guy was absolutely a first class troll.

That said, with the stuff we see on 2+2 daily, I think it's fair to say that the mods have been more than patient with most people. If Mumu got swept up with some of the gimmicks due to similar characteristics to them, it's unfortunate but the last thing I am is offended.

Sorry to swoop in on your action spade. In fairness to AMEC he really didn't have any intention of making additional bets but he basically called me out for being insincere by accepting after somebody else had already accepted. Obviously the only way I can defend myself in that spot is to say hey.... if you think I'm just piling on for appearance, I said I'd take the bet so go ahead and give me the action.

EDIT: And I agree with spade's reply completely. I don't believe for a second that most experienced poker players believe the game to be rigged. I've heard the random comments from people in casinos myself and find them to be completely uneducated as to the differences between live and online games, the legality of the games, etc. But knowing countless people who have played hundreds of thousands of hands online, and in some cases millions.... I can't think of very many who suspect anything foul.

It happens all the time, even in the Zoo.

I think you guys are reading way too mcuh into this. I don't think Mat reads this forum much, and I'd be very surprised if he's read this thread. I would bet that someone (or multiple people) reported his "Is it true that in internet poker... ...When AA holds up an angel in heaven gets his wings?" thread, Mat saw some of his other posts, and decided to just clear him out.

But if it's a big concern to anyone, they can PM Mat and find out for themselves.

With all due respect, Can a Mod. Inform us all on why that user was banned?

Also, how come I haven't been banned yet?