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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-03-2009, 02:52 PM   #1426
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

So was their research done at a random time? Did PS know the research was being done? Dude get real...I dont even need to list reasons as to why that's not credible enough....
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:53 PM   #1427
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

The US FDA just took over regulating cigarettes, and the big manufacturers....lol what do you think is next on our agenda?
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:56 PM   #1428
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

If i told you a personal friend of mine is top ten in the world in online poker, and I witness him winning over 1.5 million in the last year and a half...and still said i believed it's rigged somehow...would that make a difference...
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:56 PM   #1429
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
So was their research done at a random time? Did PS know the research was being done? Dude get real...I dont even need to list reasons as to why that's not credible enough....
It was the entire month of December 2008, for any hands played at 25NL or above.

But obviously no proof would convince you. Still waiting on your evidence. 27 hours now.
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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
The US FDA just took over regulating cigarettes, and the big manufacturers....lol what do you think is next on our agenda?
"Our" agenda? Since when do you speak for the FDA?
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:57 PM   #1430
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
So was their research done at a random time? Did PS know the research was being done? Dude get real...I dont even need to list reasons as to why that's not credible enough....
I believe that you will never be satisfied. You do know that dishonesty occurs even in regulated industries from time to time too, right?

What excuse will you use if/when an entity you approve of takes over?
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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
The US FDA just took over regulating cigarettes, and the big manufacturers....lol what do you think is next on our agenda?
there you go with the first person narrative again. pretty shady, imo.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:57 PM   #1431
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I do know that some people get rich playing online poker...that's not the fact...it's predetermined...Poker in general in the USA has now been classified as a game of skill...Why isn't that good enough to over turn the UIGEA? Hmmmm....?
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:58 PM   #1432
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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I believe that you will never be satisfied. You do know that dishonesty occurs even in regulated industries from time to time too, right?

What excuse will you use if/when an entity you approve of takes over?

there you go with the first person narrative again. pretty shady, imo.
I'll gaurentee that the RNG and security that your site uses will have to be modified... Gaurentee! As in fact.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:58 PM   #1433
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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The US FDA just took over regulating cigarettes, and the big manufacturers....lol what do you think is next on our agenda?
supper high taxes?
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:59 PM   #1434
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

tk1133, please do not procreate. That is all.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:00 PM   #1435
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
If i told you a personal friend of mine is top ten in the world in online poker, and I witness him winning over 1.5 million in the last year and a half...and still said i believed it's rigged somehow...would that make a difference...
no, because you're a liar, obv. you don't have any friends.
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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I do know that some people get rich playing online poker...that's not the fact...it's predetermined...
how do they determine who wins? I'm not rich, but I've been a steady winner (at low stakes) over about 3 years. I never did anything to deserve a "goldern account." Was is because I started on a Tuesday? How about across different sites?
Quote:
Poker in general in the USA has now been classified as a game of skill...Why isn't that good enough to over turn the UIGEA? Hmmmm....?
this has absolutely no bearing on anything. if you honestly believe it does your crazy conspiracy goes deeper into madness than previously believed.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:03 PM   #1436
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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I'll gaurentee that the RNG and security that your site uses will have to be modified... Gaurentee! As in fact.
yeah, your guarantees just became twice as worthless.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:03 PM   #1437
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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So was their research done at a random time? Did PS know the research was being done? Dude get real...I dont even need to list reasons as to why that's not credible enough....
I'm familiar with the Cigital study and participated in some threads with the authors when they were working on it. Poker Stars gave Cigital all the December 2008 cash game hand histories. After Cigital filtered out the microstakes games for being too much like play money, they were left with 103 million hand histories including all hole cards. Cigital was asked to do this study to help with the skill vs. luck argument going on in courts all over the world right now, since many gambling laws require an answer to that question.

Cigital solicited several million player copies of hand histories on this forum, to be used to validate the ones provided by Poker Stars. They matched 100%, so there was no tampering.

Cigital is one of the most credible companies in the world doing this kind of analysis. You can check their web site and see their references.

Two things the study showed were that 76% of all hands are won without a showdown, and of the 24% that had a showdown, only half the time was the dealt hand that would have won the showdown still in the pot for the showdown (they had folded half the time). Some conclusions were made from those two numbers about the relative amount of skill vs. luck in holdem poker.

There was no analysis done about riggedness or distribution of hands. But the fact that PS was willing to put an entire month's history out for analysis says they have nothing to hide.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:05 PM   #1438
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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You could account for everysingle dollar that you've made from online poker and it still wouldn't come close to my capital.....
if you're so wealthy, why don't you commission a study by an accounting firm you trust?
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:06 PM   #1439
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I will be blantently honest. If xxx came out and said during our investigation we found out that(let's say for arguements sake) 80% of online poker players use illegal programs to achieve large margins of success. Then I would apologize to everybody I have "touched."( pun for qpw and his bff. ) I would accept that. B/c something is Wrong. Something is wrong with the way you handle this situation. When I say "wrong," I mean suspicious. I want answers...not a war. You guys need debriefed b/c If I ran a poker site, and I hired people to troll poker forums to make sure this kinda bad press is nipped in the butt before it gets out of control. I would recognize when, I as a troll, am fueling a fire, adding suspicion and provoking people to actually pursue this like it's a crusade b/c of your personal attacks. Then I would find means in a non-confrontational way to get my point across. "Be seen, but not remembered. Be heard, but not quoted..."
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:07 PM   #1440
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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I will be blantently honest.
why would you start now?
Quote:
If I ran a poker site, and I hired people to troll poker forums to make sure this kinda bad press is nipped in the butt before it gets out of control. I would recognize when, I as a troll, am fueling a fire, adding suspicion and provoking people to actually pursue this like it's a crusade b/c of your personal attacks.
dude, I can link/quote you to many very reasonable replies I gave you about this issue. then, if you wish, I can do the same for your caps-locked rantings in answer to them. You're the troll, sir. You are the one who keeps saying the same dumb **** over and over with no facts to back them up.

At least I come up with new and entertaining ways to insult you personally.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:07 PM   #1441
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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if you're so wealthy, why don't you commission a study by an accounting firm you trust?
I don't "commission" anything...but it's funny you say that...now....
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:10 PM   #1442
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Re: Is there an organisation that checks poker sites?

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I come for the ice cream.
One ice cream sandwich coming right up, sir.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:11 PM   #1443
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
I'm familiar with the Cigital study and participated in some threads with the authors when they were working on it. Poker Stars gave Cigital all the December 2008 cash game hand histories. After Cigital filtered out the microstakes games for being too much like play money, they were left with 103 million hand histories including all hole cards. Cigital was asked to do this study to help with the skill vs. luck argument going on in courts all over the world right now, since many gambling laws require an answer to that question.

Cigital solicited several million player copies of hand histories on this forum, to be used to validate the ones provided by Poker Stars. They matched 100%, so there was no tampering.

Cigital is one of the most credible companies in the world doing this kind of analysis. You can check their web site and see their references.

Two things the study showed were that 76% of all hands are won without a showdown, and of the 24% that had a showdown, only half the time was the dealt hand that would have won the showdown still in the pot for the showdown (they had folded half the time). Some conclusions were made from those two numbers about the relative amount of skill vs. luck in holdem poker.

There was no analysis done about riggedness or distribution of hands. But the fact that PS was willing to put an entire month's history out for analysis says they have nothing to hide.
Now, I will show high praise to this post. If every rigged thread was addressed like this, you would actually be able to nip it in the butt and prolly get away with out an arguement. Not saying I agree, for simple fact that i respect this factual information so much that I won't even denounce or decredit this statement. Notice how when Josem gave his 2 cents. I never combatted him or denounced him, I actually showed him praise. (and this was before i found out he was the one that pretty much cracked the UB/AP scandel.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:12 PM   #1444
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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I don't "commission" anything...
nor do you bring any tangible proof with your asinine ideas.
Quote:
but it's funny you say that...now....
funny how you would like to believe there is some sort of sinister reason for that.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:14 PM   #1445
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I will be blantently honest. If xxx came out and said during our investigation we found out that(let's say for arguements sake) 80% of online poker players use illegal programs to achieve large margins of success. Then I would apologize to everybody I have "touched."( pun for qpw and his bff. ) I would accept that. B/c something is Wrong. Something is wrong with the way you handle this situation. When I say "wrong," I mean suspicious. I want answers...not a war. You guys need debriefed b/c If I ran a poker site, and I hired people to troll poker forums to make sure this kinda bad press is nipped in the butt before it gets out of control. I would recognize when, I as a troll, am fueling a fire, adding suspicion and provoking people to actually pursue this like it's a crusade b/c of your personal attacks. Then I would find means in a non-confrontational way to get my point across. "Be seen, but not remembered. Be heard, but not quoted..."
tk1133, have you ever heard the kind of expression in sports such as "he's a driver's driver", or "he's a golfer's golfer"?

Well, I can tell you this: you are a rigtard's rigtard.

In fact, you are, at the moment, the undisputed poster boy for rigtards.

Someone suggested that you live in a trailer (or, 'trailor' as you would have it), but I know that's wrong.

You live in a kennel out back with Bubba. There's no doubt of it.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:16 PM   #1446
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Re: Is there an organisation that checks poker sites?

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Because you are like the a boy who cried wolf in a long line of boys who cried wolf ,you cant except not to be mocked.
OK, I see where your going with this. That comment deserves an answer. The UIGEA is expected to be relinquished. Before that could be done, since these operators don't operate inside the USA, we can't come out and endorse or allow somthing we don't know anything about. That's why first, poker as a whole was, evaluated. Poker is now proven to be a game of skill. Let's not confuse that with online poker...I'll leave it there...
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:17 PM   #1447
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Someone suggested that you live in a trailer (or, 'trailor' as you would have it), but I know that's wrong.
maybe a "trailor" is someone who does alterations on bib overalls?
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:18 PM   #1448
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Re: Is there an organisation that checks poker sites?

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He got a very straightforward answer very quickly.

I'm not 100% convinced he is a rigtard but he would not act to distance himself from the idiot boy tk1133 which lowered his credibility to just about zilch.



What would you suggest?

That we leave all the 'Poker is Rigged' threads sitting there without any balancing viewpoint?

We are not just in this to be rude to people who think poker might be rigged.

Time and time and time again we provide answers and explanations at levels that should be comprehensible to posters of any educational achievement.

Our thanks for this is to be misrepresented, have our logical arguments ignored and to be called shills for the poker sites.

So, natuarally, now, when someone acts like a ****** they get treated like a ******.

I wonder if you are a rigtard fellow traveller or someone like myself who was initially annoyed at the rudeness shown to some posters but who eventually got sick of having carefully explained posts dismissed by people for whom recourse to logic is a concept so foreign they cannot conceive of adopting it without a passport.

I'm asking you here and now QPW. What and which poker site are you "affiliated" with. Work for? Work with? Hired by? appointed to troll by whom? That question deserves an answer.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:19 PM   #1449
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Re: Is there an organisation that checks poker sites?

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I'll leave it there...
If only, oh, if only.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:21 PM   #1450
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Re: Is there an organisation that checks poker sites?

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I'm asking you here and now QPW. What and which poker site are you "affiliated" with. Work for? Work with? Hired by? appointed to troll by whom? That question deserves an answer.
You tell me how long you got for molesting little girls and the name of your probation officer and I'll answer your question.
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