You just keep laughing at that which you do not understand.

Idiots have been doing that for centuries.

Another flame from the three headed toll.

Nice.

Lol

I mean looking at the description of the Location right under your handle tells me all I need to know about your maturity level.

qpw - "Pulling the tails of rigtards"

Did you feel like your buddy spadebidder needed a little backup. Your suckup is impressive.

I bet one of you "poker message board elite" are cooking me up a whopper response right now.

Have at it.

I think I finally gave you the fuel to burn off your anger in a belittling, name calling, intellectual elitist rant.

Here I will start it for you.

"OMG, I cannot believe all these riggies whining and they are so dumb and have no clue how to play poker or how probabilities work.

But for some reason I just keep clicking refresh on my browser in hopes that someone posts something I can poke fun at and rant and rave about because that is what I like to do and my opinion is important to push upon anyone else that does not think like me.

Surrender to my superior intellect!"

There you go, copy and paste.

While people jumping on riggies with insults every time isn't helping, neither is posting with a chip on your shoulder waiting for them to do so. In this last sequence, I thought you got pretty good responses from spade and qpw, but you instantly came back with an accusation of elitism, and the flame war starts rolling. And now you make 3 posts in a row, seemingly hoping that someone will insult you; I have no idea why.

Really, the whole thing is getting tiresome from both sides IMO.

"Really, the whole thing is getting tiresome from both sides IMO." - Bobo Fett

I have posted in this thread for days now and this is first time you have even commented on the fact that there are few regulars that resort to name calling, belittling and just giving the forum an overal negative atmosphere.

"And now you make 3 posts in a row, seemingly hoping that someone will insult you; I have no idea why." - Bobo Fett

Come on, the fact that you are even posting in here is because someone messaged you to the fact that you need to post something to moderate the forum. I used to be a moderator and I know how it goes. You probably get a bunch of people sending you messages and I would assume it was one of the regulars I started teasing a little bit in my last couple of posts.

If they are going to dish it out, they better be able to take and if you are going to allow them to continually dish it out then expect people to give it right back.

~Cheers

If you are including me (since I responded to you recently) I don't recall ever calling you a name or insulting you or belittling you. My comments have been directed at your incorrect claims. When you insisted on defending your mistake, I became more strident but still did not make a personal attack. In looking back at my responses to you, they have been quite reasonable. I initially thought you were one who could discuss things reasonably and accept critical feedback. Perhaps I was wrong.

Edit: EV is calculated from odds. Directly. You can't change just one. And a continuous shuffle doesn't change that unless you believe the shuffle is not random.

Edit2: Furthermore, my understanding is that the shuffle stops when betting stops. No shuffle is done between dealing board cards on an all-in. Five cards are requested and dealt all at once. Just like live. The delay/order of cards is simply how they are shown to you.

Bobo's not a moderator of this subforum AFAIK. And he's made several comments of this ilk in the past few days.

Xevious, why get distracted by a negative tone, whether real or merely perceived? While it would be preferable if everyone was always polite, the substance is what's important.

Ok, to the benefit of this forum and to the respect of both Arouet and spadebidder, I will go back to posting only positive content.

I was impressed by both of your posts, point taken and I will stay on topic.

"In looking back at my responses to you, they have been quite reasonable. I initially thought you were one who could discuss things reasonably and accept critical feedback." - Spadbidder

"That's nonsense. ... It's ludicrous to think so... I don't really care to argue with you and will let you stew in your own misconceptions from now on..." - Spadebidder

Now that is not sounding very reasonable to me just so you know. This is a very challenging and confrontational tone and if I walked around here talking to the Mrs. like that I might get cut off for a week.



I will get back to the topic at hand when I can find the time.

Till then, thanks for your feedback on the probability stuff.

I said it was strident.
But it was not a personal attack or namecalling.

Well it's good you know this, so you know all your intricate trapping may have led to that K on the turn. As they do in every hand (aside from the rare ones where someone's drawing completely dead by the turn). Which was 82%. I'm not entirely sure at what you're getting at.

On the EV calculator issue, I've taken a hand history and started a thread here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25...ulator-714986/

If you'd like to genuinely contribute to a discussion about the EV calculations, please feel free to chime in.

Someone say it was Trident?

This post made me chuckle a bit (as I had to bust out the dictionary to look up strident). What a fun word!

Anyway, don't worry about spadebidder, Xev. He's not here to attack you, but he will support his thoughts on the subject vehemently. Also, I'm pretty sure Bobo sticks around here because he enjoys the thread, not because someone is calling him in here.

Even qpw & Monteroy have their differences and don't really get along all that well, since qpw doesn't even play poker and Monteroy is a skilled player who just might be the most aloof person ITT. So it's not like a bunch of people conspiring against you.

Josem (while being a PokerStars rep) isn't unreasonable and seems genuinely helpful to all concerned. It might be fun to see Full Tilt represent in here as well, but we can't always get everything we want.

Your post about being all-in preflop and it's impact on the turn and river cards would be a brilliant question for Full Tilt, btw. PokerStars claims a fixed shuffle before any cards are dealt, so you're truly getting 5 cards at once. But Full Tilt claims a continuous shuffle, so does that mean the turn and river cards are shuffled before being dealt even if the players are all-in preflop? Very possibly. Obviously this makes no difference at all if the shuffle is indeed random, but if it isn't... hmmm.

Back to your regularly scheduled program. I'm putting together a little information that some here may find useful. Hopefully I will be done before bedtime tonight and I'll share it.

Interesting thread. I'm subscribed.

Thanks, that's kind.

I think that some of the 'anger' in this thread arises (and I've certainly made mistakes like this in the past) because we mistakenly believe that there is some sort of opposition between those who suspect something is wrong, and those who do not.

There fundamentally should not be a disagreement about the outcome here: both players and my employer are on the same side here. Everyone wants fair and legitimate games of online poker. There's no disagreement about that, and this is not a case of "Riggies" vs "Online Poker Sites", or even "Riggies" vs "Defenders" (or whatever you want to call the various participants). We're all on the same side. We all want the shuffle to be random, we all want cheaters to be stopped, and we all want to enjoy a game of poker.

/thread
[lock]

I respect your posts and I admire your determination, but honestly this is the equivalent of saying we all want world peace.

You will never be on the same side as riggies because the riggies will never allow you to be on their side for doing so invalidates their side. You are part of Pokerstars now and despite all of the good you have done in the past to actually make the games genuinely safer and better for everyone (which believe me the majority appreciates), none of it will ever matter to a riggie.

In their mind you are now part of the conspiracy to keep them losing their AA to KK because of a king on the turn, and anything you say will be interpreted as being a means for you to help cover up that conspiracy.

You know what the reaction to your "we are on the same side" will be?

- Well, why don't you open the door to us and let us see the RnG?

- That does not explain why my aces get cracked 110% of the time

- Of course you say that, you are a shill


I understand why many of the other posters have fun in this thread, but honestly I do not understand one bit why you spend so much energy to a fringe group that will never change their views.

You debunked that silly youtube video, what did that get you with the riggies.

You answer every bizarre claim with direct answers, what does that get you with the riggies.


That other non-shill shill summarized it perfectly when he bluntly said the riggies have it entirely wrong when they claim to be the skeptics and the "shills" to be the believers.

The riggies need it to be rigged whether it is rigged or not. Basic faith concept. Riggedology. You cannot change that, for they desperately need it.

Monteroy is right. There are some people you can tell the sky is blue, and they have their mind made up it's orange and that will never change.

I used to actually contribute to this thread with logic and still will at times if somebody is being reasonable, but let's be realistic. There are some narrow minded people who refuse to find common ground. They show constant signs of bigotry, xenophobia and a completely distorted view of the world which makes perfect sense in their own minds.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's the second comment I've made in just the last couple of days about the general tone. As has been mentioned, I'm not actually a mod of this particular forum, and my comment was not meant as some kind of dictum; just an observation as a fellow poster. I've received no PM recently from anyone WRT to this thread.

It sounds like you guys are moving on anyway, and I don't want to fan any flames; I just thought it was important to clarify those points.

I think it would be fair to say that Mike Haven and Markusgc take a fairly lightly-modded approach to this thread, but of course, like most mods, they also work off what posters tell them. If anyone has a problem with an abusive poster, report the post(s) in question. Just keep in mind that most mods don't take kindly to that feature being used indiscriminately.

Why don't they?

Why don't you ask IBM or HP or one of the other vendors of hardware RNG's that the poker sites use in a blackbox manner.

[QUOTE]Why don't you ask IBM or HP or one of the other vendors of hardware RNG's that the poker sites use in a blackbox manner.[/QUOTE

Doesn't answer the question at hand. We want to see the sites own hardware while in use. No source code, no other machines. It is not a lot to ask

[QUOTE=banonlinepoker;16933268] It's stupid and illogical to ask, and is of no benefit to anyone, but you wouldn't understand.