I don't know what gives you this idea, but you're mistaken.

That's misrepresenting my statement a bit. I pointed out that skill edges in poker take time to manifest because the normal variance is so much larger than normal skill edges. The example I used was that 10 bb/100 is a good winrate, but normal variance can be 80 bb/100 for the same player. So the skill edge is small in relation to that. I did say that no one has enormous advantages in poker because of the leveling-out effect of luck, in response to someone claiming otherwise.

The problem is that there are so many possible ways that a deal could be rigged.

Even if you included a hundred the rigtards would think of more and if they couldn't they would simply say that:

a) The software was rigged.
b) The hand histories were tampered with.
c) Some other nonsense.

I wrote the program for a particular person because he seemed reasonable and had a very specific concern. In that case it worked because once he had the analysis he was happy that everything was above board. (He had been running a little badly on one hand type but well withing expected variance).

But I can't imagine idiots like riff-raff, snakecharmer and rounding4rent ever being satisfied with any software of that nature.

I take it that mean swinging between 40 above EV=0 and 40 below EV=0 and not 80/80?

btw Sn8keChaRmer, I'm curious, do you know who was one of the main actors in bringing the AP/UB superuser scandal to light?

No, it doesn't refer to EV at all, it refers to a typical standard deviation for win rates. Many NLHE players who have long term win rates in the range of 10 ptbb/100 will also have a standard deviation of win rate of 80 ptbb/100.

That means that for 100 hands played, it is normal for them to win or lose up to 80 ptbb (160 big blinds), but over time they will average out to winning 10 per 100.

Nobody has a dollars-won graph that goes up in a smooth line. It looks like the rocky mountains.

See this post:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=13823

Excellent!

I really truly, genuinely, believe that this is the best possible outcome.

I can imagine. I've seen a similar thing.

I think one of the key learning points in my play was to learn how surprisingly small the edges are in hold'em: AK all-in against a couple of undercards is a much smaller favourite than we routinely think. Similarly, 97o wins all-in preflop against AA about the same frequency as a six-sided die rolls a 6.

I said I would leave the thread, but (as you well know and want the opportunity to show my hypocrisy in posting again) I have to post again to clarify something you know is wrong.

Like I said before, I am not a rigtard, riggie, or whatever other label you use to clarify people. I take issue with your manner and your motives in this thread and that's all. I play poker for 5 hours a day and have done for the past 4 years.

I haven't insulted you or anybody at all, I have just said what I feel after reading so many mind numbing pages of this thread and realising what makes it hard to follow. Every now and then a great piece of information is given by someone only for it to be drowned out by the constant trolling, stupid name calling and irrelevant garbage (yeah we know, you're having fun) by yourself and Monteroy. If you don't believe me go back and read some of your posts, count how many are constructive and how many are just plain childish (apologies if you are a child).

You have your beliefs others have theirs - it's that simple. You cannot say you are right with any real conviction as much as a "rigtard" can claim to be right.

On the other hand, people like Josem and Spadebidder are always polite, always provide a detailed explanation as to how they reach their conclusions and generally treat people respectfully. This manner is more likely to increase the chance of a "rigtard" converting, which is something I'd hope we all want, and would also make this thread useful.

In ten years time people will still come here claiming all sorts of poker room shenanigans, do you think by then (as obv you will still be here unless you get a new hobby) you will have learned to debate civilly, regardless of how the other person is behaving? See, that's the secret of getting your point across without looking like a fool.

Why am I not surprised that you reneged?

You are a 'tard fellow traveler. I hope that clarifies you.

And I take issue with yours.

The difference is that, during the entire course of this thread, I have made a great many substantive posts and have even written software to help someone who expressed his concerns sensibly to get to grips with some element of his stats.

You, on the other hand, have done nothing whatever of use in moving the debate forward but have, instead, just whined and moaned.

Yes you have.

You don't have the guts to just come straight out and do it.

Instead you post drivel about 'trolling drowning out great pieces of information'.

And you use the standard ****** technique of pretending that the many substantive posts I've made on the topic do not exist.

Then to cap it all you have the nerve to claim you have not been insulting.

But, of course, it's of no consequence to you because your fundamental dishonesty is just tagged to another gimmick account.

Nonsense.

With the evidence presented (i.e. none) I can reasonably claim that online poker is probably not rigged whereas only an idiot like yourself and the other rigtards would say that claiming it is rigged is a reasonable act.

ROFLMAO.

Looking at the quality of your contributions here you are the last person anyone with an ounce of sense would take lessons from on the subject of getting a point across without looking like a fool.

Not only do you look like a fool, you look like a dishonest and hypocritical fool as well.

The irony is that you keep hurling little sarcastic personal attacks at me "apologies if you are a child" while claiming to find such behavior deeply frustrating. When have I ever personally attacked you other than saying you are likely a gimmick account due to your posting activity and saying I am fairly indifferent on your general existence, which is just being honest. I am not saying you are a good or bad person, that does not matter much.

Also, assuming you are genuine, you seriously need to learn to evaluate the context of an environment. You are applying behavior in this thread as if it is typical of behavior in all forms of discussion. It is not.

This is a bloated, silly thread filled with people to vent their bizarre conspiracy beliefs and for people to have fun with those who do just that. Most riggies know that is part of the deal here, only uoi seem genuinely offended by that.

You also claim to be frustrated that nuggets of info get drowned out by the noise in this thread. Wow - shocking. Sometimes they will even merge in new 100 + post threads into this which completely messes up a whole conversation - it is as if the mods do not care about the serious chat here!

While some good advice happens here, this thread is not about that, and the rules of behavior here fit the thread. Posting styles that are part of the fun here would never be tolerated in the beginners forum for instance and with good reason.

You seem like a semi reasonable person, so here is a nugget of actual non sarcastic advice. Recognize that the rules and morals and acceptable behaviors of a thread like this are different than elsewhere. If you do not like the general karma of this thread then read the forums that better meet your needs in that regard.

Frankly you remind me of people who play a game where deception is part of the rules, but they still get offended when someone is deceptive.



Of course I can say I am right just as they can say they are right. Then we can argue about who is right even though I am always right. That's just part of the way this thread works, nothing wrong with that.



I doubt anyone has truly deep feelings about converting riggies, and the reality is almost none have ever converted. Their style may be more polite but in many cases all that has done is generated more anger and grief and some really nasty comments toward them oddly enough.


Not every forum and thread is based on your beliefs of how people should behave, and the fact you seem to keep missing this point makes me wonder just how "real" you are. In fact, if I was to create a gimmick, I would do it in exactly the way you are posting, including the pretentious user name.


At times it feels like I am talking to myself here...


All the best

There's every bit as much motive for people to post on one side as there is on the other. If you want to see people passionately posting about topics without any apparent financial motive, check out Sporting Events or Politics. What you see here is nothing.

As for all this "typed from his knees" nonsense, all he did was tell Josem that he thought it was an interesting post and thanked him for it. In case you haven't noticed, a poster that has been either neutral or maybe even leaning toward the "riggie" side has now posted something similar:

Maybe it's time you let go of some of your assumptions about motive.

Um, never have I suggested that I have any ownership over what is or isn't reasonable. But that won't stop me from giving my opinion, just like you can give yours.

As for your comment about me admitting to faults and the negative way I post constantly, I have to disagree. If you're going by the small sample of my posts you'll find in this thread, then I can see why you might think that. However, I have almost 17,000 posts outside of this thread. Many of them helping people, posting in a positive way, and yes, admitting when I make a mistake. Maybe you should wander outside of this thread once in a while.

Your post isn't all that clear, but it sounds like you're suggesting that there should be action taken against negative posting in this thread? If so, that's something you should take up with the mods of this forum. Mike Haven and Markusgc are the two most active mods here. Also, have you ever reported any of the more egregious posts? Use this icon next to the post in question: Just don't get carried away.

Heh, I've thought about bringing this up many times. Maybe they're all working for Focus On The Family, trying to bring down the evil gambling empire by sowing distrust of the online sites.

I was where these people are 3 years ago, I would have bet money on poker being rigged. I had no idea how cruel variance could be, how badly I was playing or how lucky I had been upto that point. I also had no-one that could explain these things to me. Stars tried to help, but I assumed that they were just covering up what to me was obvious.

If I didn't depend on poker for some of my income I probably would have quit playing, but luckily for me I had the time to study and practise and take my game to a better level than it was at before. A lot of people don't have the time, resources or even the intelligence to do this and will stop playing altogether.

I agree with you on the whole riggedness aspect but do not as you do feel superior for it.

People coming to this thread are generally new and inexperienced poker players. They may say that poker is rigged but if you think about it they actually want to be proved wrong. Otherwise why would they be here? So what if they are loud, so what if they don't appear to be listening, so what if they think you are a shill? Educate them if you have to and then move on. If they won't listen to you can't you ignore them and let other posters tackle them? I know you think it is fun and whatever but people going crazy about their bad beats don't need to be belittled or mocked.

Almost anytime anybody gets into a discussion with you and Monteroy it ends in namecalling and pettiness. How come this doesn't happen with other posters?

I had another account on here with maybe 15 posts made over 4 years. I had a terrible username which I asked to have changed, but was told to just create a new account. I cannot really disclose the username as it included too much of my real name and would defeat the purpose of changing it. So no, this account is not a gimmick designed to defend anyone.

Anyway I will leave the thread now - unless you feel the need to make unfounded innaccurate judgements on me again! You carry on you great "Defender of anyone or anything against those who would prosecute cases against them without evidence", I wouldn't want to get in your way, you must be so busy!!!

There's probably a lot of truth to this, which is why it might be nice if the insulting posts were a little less frequent.

At the same time, I understand where a lot of the name-calling comes from; some of the riggies really do seem to be asking for it at times.

I agree, but usually it takes a few rounds of

Riggie: "Zomg it's rigged!"
Anyone else: "No it's not, see (math)"
Riggie: "Zomg it's rigged!"
Anyone else: "No it's not, see (more detailed math)"
Riggie: "Zomg it's rigged!"
Anyone else: "No it's not, see (easily understandable math)"

before the "It's not rigged you're just a mongoloid" starts setting in.

Fair enough Riff, so why abandon the thread? Why not stick around and help the riggies get through the process you went through?

Riff, don't let them talk down to you like your a child.

it's you're not your

Yes, usually, but I think the last step kicks in a lot earlier than it used to.

I HAVE been directed here once again.

Aside from the UB and the other site, Absolute POker. What other sites?

And what is this about the Random Number Generator being compromised at Paradise Poker long ago.

FURTHERMORE.

How many of the defenders of the ONLINE POKER SITE, are being compensated?

Officially or in manners otherwise?

Please RESPOND CALMLY

Have been found to definitely have superusers? None.

News to me. Maybe you're thinking of Planet Poker.

Sigh.

This foolish question has been asked and answered many many times.

As Bobo said none, however there was probably some fishiness going on at Pitbull, but they shut down and hid the evidence so we may never really know.

Yes, I had the names confused. Thank you.

ANd but yet the aggression that foments around this topic suggest motives hidden and monetary are behind the defenders of the POKER SITES.

I believe there is too much money not to have people defending your service.

lol for god's sake can we ban gimmick accounts once and for all

This is true, and I think it's a side effect of the huge merged thread. The regular posters have seen it all already and don't have patience to answer dumb questions over and over. Back when each new thread was allowed to run its course, it followed those 3 or 4 steps and then died out until the next thread, when the cycle could repeat. It may be time to go back to the old way.

I get that you take it personaly because your an employee

Spadebidder why do you have one game lifetime on PokerStars that doesnt even show under results on OPR and no cash game history. Why is it you never play there. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Pitbull poker?

No I would never play there. The name sounds too curious.

I once played poker in a game where a Jewish butcher played, and he told me good advice It was to be wary at all times. He said that there was strange/suspicious/suspect and undesirable men in the gambling rooms who would cheat their grandmother out of her family fortune. He said to always keep watch.

I cannot see my opponents on ONLINE POKER.

How else is there to tell if I am being hustled by highly suspect actions.


No?