Well shouldn't the people who do post constuctive answers be the ones who should be insulting the people who do the above? Not people like yourself and Monteroy who just troll for the sake of it? Why do you care so much??

riff raff, if they weren't here, only riggies would be. This thread ha run it's coarse, to say the least. They are just here for their enjoyment.

I do post constructive answers from time to time.

If the response I get from such an answer is to be accused of being a shill then it's quite likely that the next time the idiot repeats the same question they will simply be called an idiot.

You see, I then have the evidence.

Not that cretinous response again.

Just how stupid are you to think that asking people why they care when people make libelous allegations against others in some way furthers your daft cause?

Why do we have so much stupid riff-raff in this thread?

I think that's a tautology, considering this thread.

screen names or it didnt happen

And arouet did I not give you an honest apology for not reading all of your posts and tell you that I was gonna go back and read through it. SInce you didnt read my message or dont care to pay attention to what I was saying then you dont deserve to be heard either so thanks for saving me the time.

Nobody should be insulting anyone. We should be able to disagree with respect like adults. Too many people in this thread act differently than they would in person. I know alot of you wouldnt walk up to a stranger and get smart with him in public just because his opinion was diffferent from yours. So why do it here. So many chumps in this thread and forum.

That's your opinion.

Mine is that there are some people here who are, figuratively speaking, at least, asking to be insulted.

You are one such person.

Again saying someone stole form you without proof is disrespectful. Calling posters shills without evidence is disrespectful. You ask for what you dont give.

How would I feel? Indifferent. While I enjoy a little back and forth in breaks from playing I have zero emotional involvement with any aspect of this thread, so I do not really get moved much when praised or insulted. I don't hate you or anyone in this thread, I am totally indifferent about your existence. A few posters in this I respect, most of the others are just fodder essentially, yourself included.

You are using your own way of looking at the world (in this case reputation in this thread) in assigning how you think others look at the world, though it is a bit sad that you feel the need to do it behind a gimmick account.

Get a hug if you need emotional support. They offer the stats, and many times I have given very straight forward advice in a step by step manner as to how the "I an not sure" class of riggies can actually improve their future in poker.

I do not bother being nice with the snake guy or banonline guy because doing do with those classes of riggies is a complete waste of time. They will never change and they want people to yell at. Others (Arouet, Josem, spade a bit) tried being nice and rational to them and look at what it got them. I'll pass on that even if it means I am not being hippie dippie trippie beacon of empathy.

Yeah, that was a good use of hours of Arouet's time. Empathy for the win...


Perhaps someday we will all live in a utopian world where that is how message boards work. For now if someone thinks that superbots or Lizard People or other mystical forces are at work to screw them out of 5 bucks I may choose to have a little fun with that. Kumbaya.


I don't care what name tage people want to use, I just thought shill was silly because how I post is the opposite of how any real shill would post. The guy who spammed about that microdonks videos was demonstrating shill behavior.

Also, I have never used the term rigtard, I am not a big fan of name calling like that - I have used riggedologist and now riggies which have a much more positive feel to them.

Thanks for the feedback, now try to get over me and move on with your life.

All the best.

I am stupid to ask why you have such an interest in something that is no concern whatsoever to you?

Have you informed anyone of the "libelous allegations" being made against them? How have they responded?

You get called a shill because you act like one. It is hardly insulting.

"Pulling the tails of rigtards" - I know of only 2 people in the entire world who do this as a hobby, guess who the other one is.

All I am saying, qpw and Monteroy, is that this thread would be less than a quarter of the size it is now if people didn't have to wade through and reply to the rubbish that you both post. Fair enough, this is your hobby and I respect that, but I think you both are being unfair to people with what they feel are genuine concerns.

You don't play poker and Monteroy plays occaissionally - neither of you from what I have read are grinders - how would either of you know what an enormous downswing feels like and how it affects your mentality? You know already that "rigtards" are going to be hard to persuade, and that you yourself can provide nothing but an opinion that you personally cannot backup, so why do you even bother responding to them? Why not leave it to the experts?

You did, and then went back to hurling insults and attacks. You'll have to excuse me if that made me skeptical.

Now you've given yourself a convenient excuse not to respond to the substantive replies. Dude, you have to decide what you want here: figure out if your suspicions are warranted, or engage in petty banter with people who find you amusing to toy with. The choice is yours.

Only by making a decision (with no evidence - see the pattern here) that is it of no concern to me does your question make any sense.

Since it evidently is of concern - much the same as any other false assertions being promulgated would be cause for concern - there's no mystery as to why I respond.

Why would I? They can read them for themselves.

R-i-g-h-t ...

So anyone who counters propaganda that is being disseminated without any evidence is 'a shill'.

You see, it's your idiotic assumptions that get you insulted.

And it would only be a one hundredth of the size if the rigtards did not keep up with the same old same old bs over and over and over again.

Those with genuine concerns are initially answered politely with reasoned arguments as to why those concerns are probably unfounded.

It's only idiots like you, snakecharmer, roundiong for rent, etc, who witter on and on and on who cause this thread to get clogged up.

Only cretins use that old nonsense to try and make a point.

Even if it were true it would be irrelevant.

Also, the posters who are getting the most attacks from riggies right now: Spadebidder, Josem, Monteroy, QPW are ironically those who have contributed the most ITT with regard to actual substantive posts about stats, variance, and how to go about figuring out if something is amiss.


This thread is, as I've often said, about critical thinking. My self assumed role ITT has always primarily been to king of keep the debate on track, and focus riggies on the correct path, often by pointing out the fallacies in their line of thinking. It's those guys who have actually described the path.

It's also these guys who, once evidence is presented, will be most able to provide detailed examination of it.

So riggies: stop taking bait and decide what you want: do you want to really see if something is amiss? Then do so. But do it smart.

And yes, I do advise reading a good chunk of the entire thread. There is a lot of good information for someone who actually wants to learn.

That's the crux of the problem right there. Whether a card game is dealt fairly isn't a matter of opinion at all. Whether a large and respected vendor cheats their customers isn't a matter of opinion at all. Saying so as a matter of opinion is slander, and doing it with no evidence at all is ignorant slander. Doing it with no evidence and against all logic and reason to the contrary is tin-hat-stupid paranoid slander that offends all sensible persons who play the game. People want some reasons when you tell them they are stupid. When you say the game is crooked you are telling all players who are comfortable that the game is fair, that they are stupid.

An opinion out of thin air that the game isn't fair, with no understanding of what a fair deal really looks like over time, deserves maybe one or two reasonable responses, and then it deserves ridicule. Most rigged posters get a fair shake at first unless they are just bonehead stupid, and then the frustration of reasoning with them sometimes causes reasonable posters to jump straight to step 2. Some posters gave up on step 1 long ago because they have learned that step 1 usually fails.

That explains things a lot better then i did, still dont think he'll get it.

Try again - why in particular do you defend pokersites? What other corporations\businesses\people do you defend so much? I think most of us don't like to see anyone slandered but not many of us crusade on their behalf.

The point about you playing poker is relevant to my post, large volume poker players understand variance and how spiteful it can be. It can mess with your head and make you question everything about the game. I think that the intelligent people posting here understand that and understand that as poker grows the volume of "rigtards" will grow. They will never go away so you wishing for that is nonsense.

The trouble is, yourself and Monteroy can only use the term "probably" when discussing your point of view. That doesn't help anybody. You cannot and will not provide your own evidence to back up what you claim.

So, as I said before, why not leave it to the experts? Maybe find a different corporation to defend or just simply find a healthier hobby that doesn't involve coming across as an obnoxious person, something I am sure you are not in "real life".

I think that you have misrepresented me - I play poker for a living and would hardly do so if I thought it was in anyway unfair.

Josem,

I think I agree with you 100% on your analysis of the pokerman's last video. I went through hand by hand and verified what you had written and pretty much totally agree. In some of the hands he did pull way out ahead but it was not on the streets where the money went in to only to lose on the river.

I am going to analyse one more video that he made early on to see if I can come to the same conclusion.

I really appreciate you taking the time to analyse the hands that he filmed and to make it clear when these hands took place as it has helped me feel more like I would get a fair shake if I played on PokerStars.

I have also had a recent live experience which has helped form my opinion on the manner in which I have run online at the microstakes level.

I was playing a 1/2 live game and there was about 4.5k on the table. An older couple can and sat down and only bought in for 150$ which was a smalll stack compared to the player stack averages. Immediately they were facing large preflop bets and were folding out over and over until they hit a breaking point.

They verbally said that they were tired of the young people trying to push them around so they and the other elderly people at the table started calling with any two cards.

I saw the sickest run of suckouts and donk hands I had ever seen in a live game.

It was just like I was playing on the online microstakes tables.

~Cheers

I'm not defending poker sites as a primary objective.

I'm defending rational analysis of a situation and the principle of innocence assumed until guilt is proben.

Which of those precepts do you have a problem with?

I'd defend anyone or anything against those who would prosecute cases against them without evidence.

You see, you have it exactly the wrong way around.

It's because I play poker and because I have analysed the game in great detail that I understand exactly how murderous variance can be and exactly the power of selective memory.

The difference between myself and you and the rest of the rigtards is that when I encountered these problems I analysed them until I understood them.

I did not jump onto a poker forum and start libeling people and companies.

It is a fundamental precept of English law (and those legal systems that derive from it, inc Australia, New Zealand, USA and Canada) that innocence is assumed until guilt is proven and you need evidence to prove guilt.

If you are not happy with that, that is entirely your own problem and not the problem of others here.

You don't have the guts to voice your concerns yourself so you come here, create a gimmick account and stand up for all the rigtards who refuse to debate rationally and, instead, libel others.

Someone pass the sick bag.

hey qpw, I have said my point. This is not a gimmick account and to suggest that someone would have to make a gimmick account because they have "no guts" to post here is more reflective of how you think than actual reality. Paranoid people think like that.

You think that what you say is important and relevant but if you look back on your posts you will find that most of them are lacking in worthwhile content and actually make you look like an obsessive fanboy for the people posting relevant content.

Yourself and Monteroy are ruining, or should I say, have ruined, this thread with your need to feel self important. This thread is not about you, believe it or not.

You say that you analysed your own game and came to your conclusions. Most of us do or did that. We didn't feel the need to come onto the forums to insult people who didn't take that path.

Anyway, I'll remove myself from this thread now, I hope it continues because of the work of people like Josem and Spadebidder (work that by your drivel gets diluted and ignored). If the thread does get closed it will be thanks to you and Monteroy primarily, if that is your hope then well done to you.

Anyway, I am much like you, I hate to see people insulted. It is probably why I never do it myself.

qpw seem to work or own a company that write auditing program for poker site to check their RNG.
so give him the benift of doubt that he know what he is talking about.
but at the same time
qpw does do poker site relate business.
so don't trust him too much.
even if he find problems, i highly doubt it will be his best interest to say anything.
same goes with spadebidder he have poker site relate business as well.
as for Monteroy, if you check his sharkscope graphic, he run so good in life, he probly never had a real downswing. he can't possible understand the hell.
so qpw. looking at monteroy, i must ask you where does variance fit in.
spadebidder already say that there is not much edge in skill, so don't get me that he play good bs.
monteroy, i'm sure you play good. but above is not meant to attack you.

ROFLMAO.

Hardly.

Why is it that idiots such as yourself expect to be able to pop up here and launch into a debate using the same tired old arguments that the rigtards have been spouting forever and not be seen as a gimmick?

More of the same old, lame old, tricks that trolls have been using since the dawn of the 'net.

Obviously, if you ignore the substantive posts all you see is the banter.

And rigtards always ignore substantive posts unless it's to propagate yet more libels by calling the poster a shill.

It's not a need to feel important. It's a willingness to defend those who are being accused without evidence.

Do you have a problem with defending those accused without evidence?

Most rigtards do and you seem no different.

No, but you seem to feel the need to come onto the forum and defend those who libel people and companies without evidence.

That's normally the action of a dishonourable person. Often a rigtard.

Probably best.

You've added precisely nothing of worth to it,

Never fear, it won't.

If it did we would once again have the whole forum awash with idiot rigtards such as yourself starting new 'ZOMG poker's rigged' threads every five minutes.

Don't kid yourself.

You've been just as insulting as anyone.

We'll see if you are sufficiently honourable to keep to your word and stop defending those libeling people without evidence.

I do not write auditing programs for poker sites.

I wrote one program for one particular poster who had a concern about his hands. (Something idiot rigtards like riff raff conveniently ignore when talking about substantive posts).

I also write software for my own benefit to analyse many of the aspects of poker - a side effect of that is that I can see that cardfall is within expected boundaries. I do this to gain insights into the game to increase my profitability.

It works.

What a weird thing to say. This is a million post long thread featuring a collection of paranoid rigged theories. People have posted about how the Russian mafia controls Stars and how Tilt adjusts deal against those with ADD based on their mouse clicks.

You seriously think a dash of arrogance "ruins" a thread like this? I hope you are a troll pretending to believe that as that would be a creative new troll/gimmick approach, so props to you if that is what this is.

This is the rigged thread not the beginners strat forum. I suggest you never visit BBV4Life

Seriously if you think this thread is spooky I highly suggest that internet message boards are not for you as this is a relatively tame "confrontational" thread

Well, considering you wouldn't believe I'm giving you my real screen name when you look it up, it's kind of pointless, yes? However, I would coordinate a prop bet in which we email Stars from our respective associated email addresses to back up my claims? How much money you got?

Regardless, here's the point you and this youtube idiot seem to always misunderstand. If a site were to rig the outcome of hands, they certainly wouldn't rig monster hands losing to underdogs - you know, like the obvious beats this youtube donkey illustrates.

They would rig small percentages of all beats - flush draws, straight draws, 5 outers etc., by shaving a tiny amount off everything, not these ridiculous allin beats that you monkeys claim happen all the time.

Think about it for a second. After you realize that, how the **** does the program factor in whose account should be the beneficiary of these shavings? I mean you got thousands of players, how do you shuffle around who needs these beats, who deposited, when and how much, who currently is boomswitched - wait this guy was doomswitched at 5/10 but he's taking a shot a 25/50 so lets boomswitch him there but not too much. I mean at that point, the rigging itself would have to be random because there would be too many variables to keep track of. The logistics don't make sense.

Anyway, let me know about the bet.

how about release it to public
i don't mind paying for something like this.