The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition - Page 538 - Internet Poker

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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?

Yes

3,502 34.89%

5,607 55.86%

Undecided

929 9.25%

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02-12-2010 , 09:01 PM

#13426

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadebidder

So a billion dollar company with stockholders to answer to, will risk everything for an extra half percent in revenue? That's pretty absurd.

People make billionaire investiments to win 0,5% in a year!!!

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:04 PM

#13427

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by toltec444

People make billionaire investiments to win 0,5% in a year!!!

Give one example of any time in history a billion dollar pool of money had an investment target of 0.5% annually. At any rate, we're talking on the margin here, on top of huge base revenue.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:06 PM

#13428

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadebidder

Give one example of any time in history a billion dollar pool of money had an investment target of 0.5% annually. At any rate, we're talking on the margin here, on top of huge base revenue.

I meant monthly....

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:06 PM

#13429

Sn8keChaRmer

banned

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 205

I want everyone that is siding with the sites to divuldge all of their screen names to start. I wanna know how many of you are actual players and not damage control employees for the site

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:09 PM

#13430

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by toltec444

I meant monthly....

Rake doesn't compound, 0.5% extra every month is 0.5% extra for the year.

Math fail.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:11 PM

#13431

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn8keChaRmer

I want everyone that is siding with the sites to divuldge all of their screen names to start. I wanna know how many of you are actual players and not damage control employees for the site

Monty?

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:11 PM

#13432

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadebidder

Give one example of any time in history a billion dollar pool of money had an investment target of 0.5% annually. At any rate, we're talking on the margin here, on top of huge base revenue.

And again, how could you detect that?? If they do this all the time, mke the bad players win more often than they should before getting busted they can increase the rake much more than 0,5%, and how can you detect that if the bad players will never have a big enough database? All you know is that in the end everything fits right as expected. They can compensate the bad beats we take from bad players with other regulars, and everything is fine everyone wins in the end the bad players last longer, the good players gets his money back and the site wins more rake.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:14 PM

#13433

Sn8keChaRmer

banned

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Monty?

Jared

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:18 PM

#13434

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Some companies lose money in the year, some poker players too, Im very sure that if a poker player could have 0,5% of lucrativity evryday he would be very happy

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:19 PM

#13435

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by toltec444

I want to know if spade checked in his "milion magic data anlisys that sees everything that can happen" if AQ loses in the SD more often than expected against 86o when the 86 player has a history of being a loser player and the AQ has the history to be a winner player with a decent bankroll?

Still waitning for an answer.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:21 PM

#13436

arcticbeatle

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 676

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn8keChaRmer

I want everyone that is siding with the sites to divuldge all of their screen names to start. I wanna know how many of you are actual players and not damage control employees for the site

I'm not an employee of the site, my sn is the same as my 2+2 name. I just honestly believe online is exactly like live poker in relation to the amount of tricky spots, coolers and action flops

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:24 PM

#13437

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn8keChaRmer

No I just live in a little place called America. And people on here cheat all the time when they use database sharing and huds. Players are cutting every corner they can these days to gain an edge.

Next....

I think there's a manifest difference between using databases and HUDs, and a massive international conspiracy to defraud players somehow with some sort of 'rigged' shuffle.

Most human beings don't try to steal from others.

Not only is the motive for your hypothetical massive international scam very weak, you also have no evidence or even a theory of how it is being run.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:25 PM

#13438

Sn8keChaRmer

banned

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 205

One thing thats interesting is someone like spadebidder only really posts on topics about sites being rigged or similar issues. Tell us spadebidder why are you so motivated to defend them? hmmmmmmmmmm

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:26 PM

#13439

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadebidder

Rake doesn't compound, 0.5% extra every month is 0.5% extra for the year.

Math fail.

Uh???? You mean the amount of money in january is the same at december? So they just burn hmmm the money?

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:26 PM

#13440

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by toltec444

You must live in some european country right.

No, I live in Australia.

Quote:

Tell me, if they are not wanting to cheat why most of the poker sites are running in the moon, where theres no law? Running in the old west of the world?

What, no.

The sites that you claim are in places "where theres (sic) no law" are places like Australia, Europe and the British Isles.

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, the idea that everywhere outside the US has no laws is just xenophobia on your behalf.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:28 PM

#13441

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by toltec444

Uh???? You mean the amount of money in january is the same at december? So they just burn hmmm the money?

Are you for real?

If you increase January's rake by 0.5%, and February's rake by 0.5%, and so on, through to increasing December's rake by 0.5%, then your total rake for the whole year has increased by 0.5%.

This is not rocket surgery.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:30 PM

#13442

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

Of course we nrmal people dont have any evidence nor any good theory about how it is being done, and thats not mere coincidence, its because frauds tend to be done in a way that most people cant see them, thats the very nature of frauds.

But we normal people know how to recognize some tips, like a compnie being running in a place that there is no law and where they cant be prosecuted.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:31 PM

#13443

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn8keChaRmer

I want everyone that is siding with the sites to divuldge all of their screen names to start. I wanna know how many of you are actual players and not damage control employees for the site

My screen names:

Full Tilt: SexyJosem
PartyPoker: CitanulIsGod
iPoker/PropagandaPoker: Sarah4444
BetSafe: Sarah
PokerStars: SexyJosem now HostMichaeJO

Those probably account for 90%+ of my play, I think. There may be some other miscellaneous accounts at some random small sites as well.

Also, fyi, your method of asking people for User IDs does nothing to prove the legitimacy of posters, since you have no way of verifying that they are the true owners of the account.

It would be more valuable if you focused on the merits of the issue, rather than the personalities involved.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:32 PM

#13444

toltec444

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 496

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

No, I live in Australia.

What, no.

The sites that you claim are in places "where theres (sic) no law" are places like Australia, Europe and the British Isles.

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, the idea that everywhere outside the US has no laws is just xenophobia on your behalf.

Ok so explaine me, why the guy who stole money in the AP scandal is not in jail?

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:33 PM

#13445

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by toltec444

No, the way most frauds run is that they can be detected.

By definition, if there's no difference between an honest result and a fraudulent result, then it shouldn't matter whether it is honest or fraudulent.

Quote:

But we normal people know how to recognize some tips, like a compnie being running in a place that there is no law and where they cant be prosecuted.

But that's just not true!

Looking at the three largest online poker sites - PokerStars, Full Tilt and PartyPoker - all three have been sued at one time or another by players.

Like, there might well be some obscure minor site, but the major sites, which account for an overwhelming majority of the online poker industry, all operate in western countries with proper laws and courts and parliaments and so on.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:35 PM

#13446

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by toltec444

Ok so explaine me, why the guy who stole money in the AP scandal is not in jail?

Because that minor site is not in one of the legitimate jurisdictions.

The UK Government ran a comprehensive analysis of various jurisdictions, and found the Kahnawake to be simply inadequate. Sure, there are some backwater renegade places (such as the Kahnawake) but if that's as much a concern to you as it is to me, then you shouldn't play at such a site.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:36 PM

#13447

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn8keChaRmer

I want everyone that is siding with the sites to divuldge all of their screen names to start. I wanna know how many of you are actual players and not damage control employees for the site

Other than Josem for understandable reasons, who in this thread is siding with poker sites? More like siding against rigged speculations based on anecdotal bad beats. When some evidence comes out, most here would love to see it.

This is my screenname everywhere.

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:38 PM

#13448

Sn8keChaRmer

banned

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 205

This is histerical. This thread was created to cenrtralize this issue so the representitives from the sites could troll it all day and attempt to shut down anyone that challeneges. Some of you are obviously representitives. You make it too obv

Quote

02-12-2010 , 09:39 PM

#13449

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn8keChaRmer

I like logic and math and statistics and I know a bit about business. Look again, half my posts are in totally unrelated subjects. This topic is fun sometimes.