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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:06 PM   #12976
Monteroy
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by batair View Post
Not really... thats why i want you to stop measuring yours in every post.
I understand the attention, but I am not oriented in the same way, not that there is anything wrong with that.



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Originally Posted by batair View Post
You dont think i get that and am playing the same game? Thank God for donkaments or you might come up short in your measuring hobby.

Yeah, its that freak run I have over 10,000+ tournaments (20,000+ if you include Crypto history). You know, I just run hot. Variance etc. Gee, maybe you are better at "real" poker or something. Post your info then, if you are good I will compliment you for being good.

Measuring hobby is all yours buddy, I don't really care about your member like seem to about about mine.

By the way, I can play this semi-sarcasm leveling game forever as well, and it is a bit more interesting than debating mundane paranoid people, so keep at it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
My point is everyone knows most rigged folk are losing players. So asking them for stats is more done to humiliate them than to help them gain respectability on their assonie theories. Do you really think monty hall here is trying to help anyone gain respectability when he asks for stakes and stats form the dude who is saying his first time deposit boomswitch has been shut off. I mean come on.
Believe it or not, it is helpful, even if it is not always in a hippie hug manner. Like I did with Donko, if you can snap someone out of their deluded state like that Dog Whisperer guy does to dogs, it will help them even if the method to get them to see clear is annoying.

Certainly some riggies are beyond hope, and yeah it is fun to have a bit of amusement at their expense, but this thread is a billion posts long for just that purpose. Nobody takes this seriously (even most riggies), so what are you trying to be suddenly - the beacon of hope and caring to riggies everywhere? Open a riggie shelter then or something.

All the best.

Last edited by Monteroy; 02-04-2010 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:06 PM   #12977
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
imo asking for stats is a way to get the rigtard to actually do that and then look at it and notice that "I wasn't actually losing 90% of the time with AA, oh..."
they dont keep stats
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:07 PM   #12978
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
imo asking for stats is a way to get the rigtard to actually do that and then look at it and notice that "I wasn't actually losing 90% of the time with AA, oh..."
That's what we've been doing since before this thread was created.

We ask them for Evidence.

Obviously that would involve looking at their stats. (Unless they have CCTV recordings of someone rigging the deal. ).
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:09 PM   #12979
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
I can play this semi-sarcasm leveling game forever as well, and it is a bit more interesting than debating mundane paranoid people, so keep at it.

All the best.
meh

good day to you sir

Last edited by batair; 02-04-2010 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:16 PM   #12980
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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meh

good day to you sir
Thanks.

Better luck next time.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:16 PM   #12981
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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they dont keep stats
of course they don't

but normally they can request their hhs from the site they're playing on
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:23 PM   #12982
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

So I have been on a bad run for the past 30k hands and moving down in stakes twice, I decided to run a small little test.

I had allways assumed that I am playing so many hands is the reason that I am experiencing all these action flops and these amazing suckouts.

So I decided to play three sessions, one table only for about 200 hands to see how I ran to simulate playing 3 live brick and mortar sessions. I would used this set of approx 600 hands to compare with how I run during my live 8-10 handed games. I realized I would probably see better showdowns hands in my live game since there were more players so I tried to take that into account.

I probably lost close to 8 buyins combined during these sessions. Again I am going to post abbreviated hand histories since I am focusing on what is dealt as opposed to how the hand was played.

*In all of these hands I am heads up with one other person after preflop betting and am the first hand listed in the example.

Session 1 - Pocket Jacks are not nice to me:
JhJs vs 5d5s - flop comes 3h,5h,Th, turn comes 8s he is short stack and goes all in and I call
7 minutes later...
JcJh vs AhAs - flop is 4s,3h,5s, turn comes 7c, river 10d - I pay the guy off on every street
10 minutes later...
JsJd vs 5c5s - flop, 9d,5d,6s I play this one ultra agressive and reraise all in ouch!
15 minutes later...
JdJc vs 9c9s - flop comes 9h,8s,4h WTF!!

Have had worse live sessions so not a big deal.

Session 2 - My big A hands rape me:
AsKh vs AhAc - he picks up AA in the small blind and smooth calls, flop comes 7d,4h,Kd and I do not improve on turn or river doh!
40 mins later...
AdKd vs As6s - flop comes Ah,2s,8c, I play this one too slowly on the turn when 10s hits and he makes nut flush on river gah!!
10 mins later...
AsKd vs 9d6d - flop comes Ac,3s,9h, I again let him lead in the betting turn looks like a blank 4c and he pays way too much to see river and gets a six on the river doh!
15 mins later...
AhAd vs JcJd - flop comes 5d,2h,6c, I once again (like an idiot) slow play this hand, the turn comes a Js and he pushes for a huge overbet, I call and am stacked, SOAB!!

Session 3 - Tilt was bad my sets no good
JhJc vs QsTd - flop comes 6c,8h,Jd, I let one more card hit before I push, turn comes 2d, I get insta-called and river the 9h, !@#$%^&*, not a good start for the session
Tilting hard and ten minutes later...
KhJh vs Ah9h - flop comes 3h,10s,7h, big bet gets called, turn comes Kd, river 6h and it all went in again, AYFKM!!
One minute later against same player and pretty embarrasing...
AhKc vs 3h3d - flop comes 4d,9c,9d, I bet big preflop and continuation for full pot (mind you my continuation percent is not extremely high) on the flop and get a tentative call from what I consider a timing tell, turn comes 6c and I push and get called to be shocked to see his hand and for sand in the eyes comes 3s on the river
Two minutes later...
6s4s vs Ac7c - I cannot believe how bad I am running and how bad I am playing now, flop comes As,6c,4d, I am stoked as I have this same player isolated and he leads out with a big bet, I go over the top with an all-in get insta-called and the very next card is 7s. I am almost dumbfounded at this point.
Ten minutes later...
8s8h vs JdTd - I raise on button preflop and get one caller, flop comes 8d,7d,3s I bet pot and get called. Turn comes 9h and I think to myself, what are the chances I just got passed up in this hand. Obvoiusly I thought they were low since I paid him off on turn and river.
8 minutes later...
4s3s vs TcTd - he completes as SB and we see a flop, 4c,3h,Ts, needless to say this was my last hand of the experiment...

I understand that more details about how these hands were played would be helpful to know if the amount I lost was too much. This was just a random three session set of games that I thought I would use to compare to my live games because I felt there was such a difference to how I run online than I do live.

My luck in live games seems to go up and down. For every run of seemingly horrible luck, I get at least a small refreshing short run of somewhat good luck. I feel that this same variance up swing has not happened to me in the past 50k hands and has caused me to feel suspicious.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:25 PM   #12983
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
imo asking for stats is a way to get the rigtard to actually do that and then look at it and notice that "I wasn't actually losing 90% of the time with AA, oh..."
Just for kicks I looked at my PT3 on my Mac (so definitely not my entire history), to see how AA treated me. Out of 1263 cash hands, I've had AA 6 times (sounds about right)... 5 of those won (83.33%)... average won 16.44BB.

The one hand I lost with AA follows (I think I was expecting a raise behind me, but I obviously didn't get it):

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (MP2): $1.46
CO: $1.82
BTN: $9.09
SB: $7.63
BB: $18.91
UTG: $15.29
UTG+1: $45.03
UTG+2: $14.11
MP1: $27.26

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP2 with A A
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, 3 folds, BB checks

Flop: ($0.35) 7 K K (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.35) 9 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.35) Q (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $0.20, BB folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.20

Spoiler:


So, had I played it more normally, I'm pretty sure I'd be looking at 100% for my AA's so far on my Mac, anyway... heh

Incidentally, weird limp from the UTG+2, right?

Last edited by smithcommajohn; 02-04-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:30 PM   #12984
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Thanks.

Better luck next time.
I said good day.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:36 PM   #12985
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I said good day.
I said thanks, and suggested that you have better luck next time. Perhaps it was not clear.


Better luck next time.


All the best.

P.S. You are riggie-friendly, so maybe you can help Xevoius with his latest post. He did post a lot of data after all, and you would not want him to feel bad, so dig in and help.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:37 PM   #12986
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Better tighten up your game arcticbeatle...

Looks like .10/.25 level is a little bit different than the .5/.10 game on Pokerstars.

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Old 02-04-2010, 01:51 PM   #12987
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I said thanks, and suggested that you have better luck next time. Perhaps it was not clear.


Better luck next time.


All the best.
Never watched it i guess .Also i dont believe in luck but ty.

Quote:
P.S. You are riggie-friendly, so maybe you can help Xevoius with his latest post. He did post a lot of data after all, and you would not want him to feel bad, so dig in and help.
Not rigged friendly afaik.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:52 PM   #12988
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I said thanks, and suggested that you have better luck next time. Perhaps it was not clear.
What IS clear is that you are behaving more and more like an obnoxious ass.

I'm sure you're impressing yourself mightily but I very much doubt you are impressing anyone else.

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... but I am not oriented in the same way ...
Hmmm, so are you having boyfriend trouble? If so, it would be better if you didn't work out your frustrations ITT.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:52 PM   #12989
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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the problem is
this thead is rigged from start
1.no software
i am only going to use pen and paper if the screenshot of my hand writting can be accept as proof.
funny how talking about creating such software put the non-rigged on tilt and start attacking outside of this thread as well.
what are the non-rigged afraid of?
microbob has already stated that pt3 and hem are not design to do this and will not be able to give any useful information. so please....(Monteroy)

2.no predefine set of math
non-riggist leave themself another out just in case somebody manage to pull it off.
i'm still waiting for the spade due to get back to me on how often does 3 of a kind win. (nature card dealt, taking out game play)
all i got is Monteroy give me an outter limited example and then say something how often the hand win don't matter, and don't proof a thing...WTF
if 10k hands of AA vs 22 hand
AA will lose money if AA never bet and only call.
but
a only call and never bet AA should still win 8k hand of the showdown vs 22
because AA vs 22 is 80/20 favorite.
if somebody produce the proof that AA vs 22 is only 55/45 over 10k match up.
it defienly proof it's rigged. BUT you can expect Monteroy to come out and say it's meaningless because you never bet.
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Wat?
FYQP
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:54 PM   #12990
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Not rigged friendly afaik.
I wondered where he got that from - not something I've noticed from your posting on this thread.

I think poor old Monteroy is losing it.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:07 PM   #12991
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I wondered where he got that from - not something I've noticed from your posting on this thread.

I think poor old Monteroy is losing it.
He was just taking a shot i think, its all good.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:19 PM   #12992
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Do we agree that it would create more rake if a poker site stacked the decks to create more tilt-inducing hands?
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:21 PM   #12993
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Do we agree that it would create more rake if a poker site stacked the decks to create more tilt-inducing hands?
Hard to say.

It might get them some more short term action but it could also cause people to give up poker altogether.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:33 PM   #12994
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Hard to say.

It might get them some more short term action but it could also cause people to give up poker altogether.
No. Tilt-inducing hands do not affect the regulars, because they will win them as often as they lose them. But it will affect the recreational players who consider them "unfair". And since they did not lose their stack because of their bad skill but because of "unfair bad luck", they will return the next day, even after dropping another buy-in right away.
Tilt-inducing hands bring more money to the tables. If a site could by magic be 100% sure that no one would ever find out, they would rig their system to have as many tilt-inducing hands as possible.
So that is the point - is there any realistic chance that a site could get away with an abnormal number of bad beats? (They are not dealt to specific players, mind you; every seat gets their fair share of sick two outers.)
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:43 PM   #12995
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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No. Tilt-inducing hands do not affect the regulars, because they will win them as often as they lose them. But it will affect the recreational players who consider them "unfair". And since they did not lose their stack because of their bad skill but because of "unfair bad luck", they will return the next day, even after dropping another buy-in right away.
Tilt-inducing hands bring more money to the tables. If a site could by magic be 100% sure that no one would ever find out, they would rig their system to have as many tilt-inducing hands as possible.
So that is the point - is there any realistic chance that a site could get away with an abnormal number of bad beats? (They are not dealt to specific players, mind you; every seat gets their fair share of sick two outers.)
You seem to have made up your mind but I disagree with your reasoning.

Tilt will cause money to move from player to player at a much faster rate than normal.

The site will benefit if money moves from player to player at a slower rate - i.e. more games - so that a greater proportion is rake.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:06 PM   #12996
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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You seem to have made up your mind but I disagree with your reasoning.

Tilt will cause money to move from player to player at a much faster rate than normal.

The site will benefit if money moves from player to player at a slower rate - i.e. more games - so that a greater proportion is rake.
That's not always true either. If the flow is only one direction, from donks to sharks, the house take will be the same whether it's fast or slow (unless the rake cap becomes a factor). The ultimate situation is for the money to flow back and forth between players as fast as possible.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:16 PM   #12997
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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What IS clear is that you are behaving more and more like an obnoxious ass.

I'm sure you're impressing yourself mightily but I very much doubt you are impressing anyone else.
I made it clear what my goals were in this thread several times. Find where I said "impressing others" was on the list.

Hint, I am not behaving like an ass, I am being an ass. To people who deserve it. Being an ass back to me is fine as well, I deserve it. This is the one thread where that is kind of the status quo. I don't post like this in the backgammon forum.



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Hmmm, so are you having boyfriend trouble? If so, it would be better if you didn't work out your frustrations ITT.

Heh, outofcontextaments

Even you are better than that.

Maybe.

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He was just taking a shot i think, its all good.
Correct. I even said that before and after. Your replies were not too bad, certainly a much better effort than this Kiwi guy, so props to that.


One of you should help that riggie now though with his hand histories, that would be fun to watch as well.

Anyway, off to play. Have fun ladies.


All the best.

Last edited by Monteroy; 02-04-2010 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:16 PM   #12998
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki View Post
You seem to have made up your mind but I disagree with your reasoning.

Tilt will cause money to move from player to player at a much faster rate than normal.

The site will benefit if money moves from player to player at a slower rate - i.e. more games - so that a greater proportion is rake.
I tend to agree with Bart, with one small qualification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartJ385

If a site could by magic be 100% sure that no one would ever find out, they would rig their system to have as many tilt-inducing hands as possible needed to produce maximum rake.
At the lowest micros, anything that has a pot of less than $1 is not raked, so "action hands" that induce multiple players into the pot increase the rake.

At levels where the rake can get capped at $3, the site doesn't benefit from any additional action once the cap has been reached.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:39 PM   #12999
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Hint, I am not behaving like an ass,
If you are being an ass, then it rather follows that you are behaving like one.

(Unless you are in disguise.)

Now, what are you doing?

Quote:
I am being an ass.
Quote:
Being an ass back to me is fine as well, I deserve it.
Says it all, really.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:45 PM   #13000
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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If you are being an ass, then it rather follows that you are behaving like one.

(Unless you are in disguise.)

Now, what are you doing?




Says it all, really.

You call half the world a ****** on a regular basis. We both are asses in this thread, only differences are you use more of a low brow approach and you do not openly admit to being an ass like I do when behaving like an ass.

Transparency. Makes life easier.

Good luck at the tables today qpw.

Heh.


Hint, that's me being an ass.

Feel free to say "that says it all" as if I am hiding something...
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