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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-30-2010, 01:02 AM   #12676
Grape Ape
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

*********************Calling out all shilltards********************
At any given time, in any given hand, a villain needs any # of outs to win.
Now, 'if' the software is set up to randomly choose between those outs, based on account balances and win rates, this would be undectable from external audits! There for, all external data is irrelevent! The random selection of outs is undectable externaly (other than -ev results over large samples)! The purpose is to keep every account as close too even as possible! Losing players lose more slowly and winning players win less than expected! We have all seen a ton of -ev graphs! Where are all of the +ev graphs? There for, most of our funds go to rake and then the sites win, not the players! The funds we deposit are then invested and these sites make tons on this lending alone! They don't what anyone to cashout! That is bad for their investment returns.
Why is this thread so popular? Obviously the online poker industry has done close to nothing to prove its legitimacy!! I would love to see some data from all the shilltards here to prove me wrong! Plz do!!! Save the sarcasm for your for ur own sake! You shilltards look like fools the way u berate peolple without facts of randomness!!! Randomness would easily be confirmed through regular unannounced RNG audits! IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK FOR? We can all audit a live deck anytime! I don't see any threads about live poker being rigged! I would love to see data from the most recent RNG audits from any of the major sites operating in the U.S., Anyone have some? LOL, of course not! They wouldn't rigg the deal if it was dectectable externally. All external data is irrelevent- Spadebinder!
Why are "shilltards" aloud to dominate this thread and tag team every skeptic? Since when is skepticism a sign of ******ation? Blind faith is a sign of ******ation! Skepticism is a sign of intelligence! You shilltards talk more about grammar and spelling than facts??? Ban them all!!!! They are very well paid and have done a great job of berating skeptics and keeping the vote here constantly betwwen 37% and 38% of RNG skeptics. You shilltards are good at what you do!! Why not come out and admit who you work for? Like Josem has! What do you have to hide? A conflict of interest maybe!!!!!!!!!!!! Plz explain how external RNG audits are sufficient and why can't I find proof an internal RNG audit over the last five years-PLZ do!!!!! I AND ALL ONLINE POKER PLAYERS WANT SOME PROOF THAT THE DEAL IS RANDOM- *THATS WHY THIS THREAD IS SO POPULAR*!!!!! IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK FOR??????
I ask these questions on behalf of all online poker players. We deserve respect and assurance that we all play in a fair game!! DO WE NOT??
*DISCUSS*
"Its not the questions that are the problem its the answers.", Tom Brokaw.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:05 AM   #12677
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

YEOW! It's a gorill-ill-ill-ill-la!
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:17 AM   #12678
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Yeow its a shilltard!
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:22 AM   #12679
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
*********************Calling out all shilltards********************
At any given time, in any given hand, a villain needs any # of outs to win.
Now, 'if' the software is set up to randomly choose between those outs, based on account balances and win rates, this would be undectable from external audits! There for, all external data is irrelevent! The random selection of outs is undectable externaly (other than -ev results over large samples)! The purpose is to keep every account as close too even as possible! Losing players lose more slowly and winning players win less than expected! We have all seen a ton of -ev graphs! Where are all of the +ev graphs? There for, most of our funds go to rake and then the sites win, not the players! The funds we deposit are then invested and these sites make tons on this lending alone! They don't what anyone to cashout! That is bad for their investment returns.
Why is this thread so popular? Obviously the online poker industry has done close to nothing to prove its legitimacy!! I would love to see some data from all the shilltards here to prove me wrong! Plz do!!! Save the sarcasm for your for ur own sake! You shilltards look like fools the way u berate peolple without facts of randomness!!! Randomness would easily be confirmed through regular unannounced RNG audits! IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK FOR? We can all audit a live deck anytime! I don't see any threads about live poker being rigged! I would love to see data from the most recent RNG audits from any of the major sites operating in the U.S., Anyone have some? LOL, of course not! They wouldn't rigg the deal if it was dectectable externally. All external data is irrelevent- Spadebinder!
Why are "shilltards" aloud to dominate this thread and tag team every skeptic? Since when is skepticism a sign of ******ation? Blind faith is a sign of ******ation! Skepticism is a sign of intelligence! You shilltards talk more about grammar and spelling than facts??? Ban them all!!!! They are very well paid and have done a great job of berating skeptics and keeping the vote here constantly betwwen 37% and 38% of RNG skeptics. You shilltards are good at what you do!! Why not come out and admit who you work for? Like Josem has! What do you have to hide? A conflict of interest maybe!!!!!!!!!!!! Plz explain how external RNG audits are sufficient and why can't I find proof an internal RNG audit over the last five years-PLZ do!!!!! I AND ALL ONLINE POKER PLAYERS WANT SOME PROOF THAT THE DEAL IS RANDOM- *THATS WHY THIS THREAD IS SO POPULAR*!!!!! IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK FOR??????
I ask these questions on behalf of all online poker players. We deserve respect and assurance that we all play in a fair game!! DO WE NOT??
*DISCUSS*
"Its not the questions that are the problem its the answers.", Tom Brokaw.

I can't tell if this is a level, but I'm responding just to point out the use of the word skeptic here. Just doubting something does not make one a Skeptic. Skepticism is a rational approach to problem solving. Making accusations without reliable evidence is not being a skeptic. A skeptic would start off with a hypothesis, then test it to see if it holds. Spadebidder's study is the epitome of a skeptical approach to the problem of whether the major sites are rigging their deals. A rational skeptic will take a scientific approach to a problem: looking at data, examining evidence, and trying to form conclusions. For someone who does not have Spadebidder's skills nor time, a skeptical approach may involve taking an indepth look at one's own hands, searching for other opinions on the subject matter, evaluate those opinions and probe them for flaws, and then reach a conclusion.

Most of the riggies are not using a skeptical approach in approaching this question. They see a few bad beats and draw conclusions. They imagine motivations and infer actions. They take suspicions and raise them to the level of confirmation. It is the "shilltards" who have consistently proposed skeptical approaches to this problem.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:26 AM   #12680
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

From that whole post all u have to comment on is my definition of skeptic?
LOL, "SHILLTARD"!
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:33 AM   #12681
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
From that whole post all u have to comment on is my definition of skeptic?
LOL, "SHILLTARD"!
My bad - I forgot to ask how Beegle Beagle is doing. Actually, I guess he would be dead by now. Oh well.

What else would you have me say, it was a gimmick account doing full blast manifesto speak, crazy formatting and all. Woo, thrilling...
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #12682
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

At least you are well paid!
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #12683
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
*********************Calling out all shilltards********************
At any given time, in any given hand, a villain needs any # of outs to win.
Now, 'if' the software is set up to randomly choose between those outs, based on account balances and win rates, this would be undectable from external audits! There for, all external data is irrelevent!
This is just bull****. We have discussed why this is bull**** in the previous few thousand posts.
Quote:
I would love to see some data from all the shilltards here to prove me wrong! Plz do!!!
www.spadebidder.com

Quote:
I would love to see data from the most recent RNG audits from any of the major sites operating in the U.S., Anyone have some? LOL, of course not!
Here you are just being yet another lying liar that lies.

Here's the certification letters of many such RNG audits, across three different sites:
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/random-number-generator
http://cakepoker.com/en/Help/Integrity/RNG.aspx
Quote:
Plz explain how external RNG audits are sufficient
Because an RNG is defined by what an RNG produces. It's the outcome that matters, and it allows you - or anyone else - to review data and come to conclusions.
Quote:
and why can't I find proof an internal RNG audit over the last five years-PLZ do!!!!!
Above are links to a few such audits.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:39 AM   #12684
Grape Ape
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The only open shill replies magically, WOW!
What a coincidence!
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:41 AM   #12685
Bobo Fett
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Grape, I have a feeling your whole evening tonight is consisting of:

<F5>
<F5>
<F5>
<F5>
<F5>
"Ooh, someone replied!"
<Type insult>
<F5>
<F5>
<F5>
<F5>
"Ooh, someone replied!"
<Type insult>
<F5>
<F5>
<F5>

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 01-30-2010 at 01:42 AM. Reason: In before next insult. Am I a shill, or a shilltard?
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:44 AM   #12686
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
This is just bull****. We have discussed why this is bull**** in the previous few thousand posts.
www.spadebidder.com


Here you are just being yet another lying liar that lies.

Here's the certification letters of many such RNG audits, across three different sites:
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/random-number-generator
http://cakepoker.com/en/Help/Integrity/RNG.aspx

Because an RNG is defined by what an RNG produces. It's the outcome that matters, and it allows you - or anyone else - to review data and come to conclusions.

Above are links to a few such audits.
Josem;

Can you explain how the auditor checks to be sure that the site is always using the RNG that it is asked to audit. Does the auditor also audit hand histories? How can the auditor detect if the site periodically substitutes a RNG, skewing for the underdog after the flop or all in, in place of the random RNG that the auditor is presented by the site?
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:52 AM   #12687
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

External RNG audits are useless for the reasons I have set fourth!
What exactly am I lying about?
I am asking relevant questions!
I am no liar Mr. Josem tyvm!
You are highly paid by the industry you defend that makes you irrelevant!
Does it not?
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:57 AM   #12688
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
External RNG audits are useless for the reasons I have set fourth!
What exactly am I lying about?
I am asking relevant questions!
I am no liar Mr. Josem tyvm!
You are highly paid by the industry you defend that makes you irrelevant!
Does it not?
Honestly, I just want to know how you managed to not crush that little yellow van you always sat on. I think you are hiding something...

Also want to add that you cost me money that I had on the Scoobie Doobies one time.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:00 AM   #12689
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

All the links you have provided are by external audits Josem.
How about info on the last internal RNG audit?
Is that too much to ask for?
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:34 AM   #12690
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Your silence speaks VOLUMES!

Last edited by Grape Ape; 01-30-2010 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:35 AM   #12691
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

How will you know if an 'internal' audit is really legit? Obviously an external audit is way more reliable. Internal audits mean nothing.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:05 AM   #12692
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

WOW-my original post has been changed to say things I didn't even say, someone has manipulated my original post! This thread is Hijacked. They can change my own posts?????? WTF!!!!
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:11 AM   #12693
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The last four sentences of my first post here have been manipulated and are not my direct words! After josem missqouted me now my post has been altered. This is Orwellian!
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:16 AM   #12694
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
So you are so addicted to poker that you can't stop even though you think it is rigged against you?
No, not addicted to anything their Jet boy.

Quote:
You Defend online poker yet you can't provide one link or shred of evidence of a properly regulated institution, free of corruption and fraud
How can you when PS and Ft don't let anyone near the servers? As well as host them on land where they are not required to do so.

Quote:
Why did you make your 2+2 name "banonlinepoker" when you apparently have no desire to see such a thing happen?
I actually do want online poker as it is now banned. When a US company hosts the servers on US land and lets a real agency regulate it I would support it.

Quote:
Spin it how? I told everyone to read the thread if they like and they can see every word you said. Seriously, you really think being angry and arbitrarily declaring a strike count works against transparent actual data?
What data? You seriously think that saying I don't support Indians hosting online poker servers constitutes me hating them? What is your name Rachel Maddow? Come on dude your not going to seriously tell me you are going to accuse me of racism and resort to the MSNBC scare mongering and then when called out tell people to search the thread? Strike three yerrrrrrr out! Lame dude, real lame.

Quote:
How about this - why don't you tell us in this thread what exactly you think of the Native Americans that are in areas that handle the poker servers. That should clear everything after all, so go for it.
The mohawk reservation is being utilized because of it's immunity to any laws. The KGC knew nothinig before and really knows nothing of gaming. I don't support this. I don't hate Native Americans, now go to McDonalds and get a cheeseburger and while your eating it ponder your next spin.

Quote:
$11, $22, $33, $55 and on Sundays I will be in the 109s and 215s. Feel free to check this Sunday, next Sunday, the Sunday after that, the Sunday after that. My play level in terms of buy in is not bragworthy compared to many other players, but I am comfortable with what I do, and it without question way above whatever mystery levels you play and whine about. Prove me wrong. Or continue to yell that I play $5 sit and gos for some reason. I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish except being angry at me by pretending my verifiable play is far lower than it is, but you seem really determined to stick to it which is kind of funny. Unicorns in the sky...
Give yourself a goldstar on your parents refrigerator buddy. Your still an avg 12 buy in. Good luck, remember AA and KK don't come around that often.

Quote:
Ok, how 'bout answering my question: did you look at spadebidder's study results so far? What do you think of them?
I have my own data thank you
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:29 AM   #12695
Devilboy666
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker View Post
I have my own data thank you
Well why don't you play nice and share
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:29 AM   #12696
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilboy666 View Post
Well why don't you play nice and share
this, seriously. If you have evidence that shows wrongdoing, why not post it? Also, you didn't answer the question!
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:36 AM   #12697
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
All the links you have provided are by external audits Josem.
How about info on the last internal RNG audit?
Is that too much to ask for?
What the hell? You want a poker site to conduct and publish an audit on itself? That makes no sense. The whole point of an audit is that it is conducted by someone else. That's pretty core to the concept of an audit.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:37 AM   #12698
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
Your silence speaks VOLUMES!
My silence? I've made literally thousands of posts on this issue. Are you stoned?
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:39 AM   #12699
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
The last four sentences of my first post here have been manipulated and are not my direct words! After josem missqouted me now my post has been altered. This is Orwellian!
I did not misquote you. This is just another lie by you.

I simply clicked on the 'quote' button. Obviously I then ended each quote so I could comment on each point you raised.

I most certainly did not misquote you - that's pretty self-evidently nonsense, 'cause people can read what you wrote above.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:49 AM   #12700
Bobo Fett
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
WOW-my original post has been changed to say things I didn't even say, someone has manipulated my original post! This thread is Hijacked. They can change my own posts?????? WTF!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
The last four sentences of my first post here have been manipulated and are not my direct words! After josem missqouted me now my post has been altered. This is Orwellian!
This post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Ape View Post
*********************Calling out all shilltards********************
At any given time, in any given hand, a villain needs any # of outs to win.
Now, 'if' the software is set up to randomly choose between those outs, based on account balances and win rates, this would be undectable from external audits! There for, all external data is irrelevent! The random selection of outs is undectable externaly (other than -ev results over large samples)! The purpose is to keep every account as close too even as possible! Losing players lose more slowly and winning players win less than expected! We have all seen a ton of -ev graphs! Where are all of the +ev graphs? There for, most of our funds go to rake and then the sites win, not the players! The funds we deposit are then invested and these sites make tons on this lending alone! They don't what anyone to cashout! That is bad for their investment returns.
Why is this thread so popular? Obviously the online poker industry has done close to nothing to prove its legitimacy!! I would love to see some data from all the shilltards here to prove me wrong! Plz do!!! Save the sarcasm for your for ur own sake! You shilltards look like fools the way u berate peolple without facts of randomness!!! Randomness would easily be confirmed through regular unannounced RNG audits! IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK FOR? We can all audit a live deck anytime! I don't see any threads about live poker being rigged! I would love to see data from the most recent RNG audits from any of the major sites operating in the U.S., Anyone have some? LOL, of course not! They wouldn't rigg the deal if it was dectectable externally. All external data is irrelevent- Spadebinder!
Why are "shilltards" aloud to dominate this thread and tag team every skeptic? Since when is skepticism a sign of ******ation? Blind faith is a sign of ******ation! Skepticism is a sign of intelligence! You shilltards talk more about grammar and spelling than facts??? Ban them all!!!! They are very well paid and have done a great job of berating skeptics and keeping the vote here constantly betwwen 37% and 38% of RNG skeptics. You shilltards are good at what you do!! Why not come out and admit who you work for? Like Josem has! What do you have to hide? A conflict of interest maybe!!!!!!!!!!!! Plz explain how external RNG audits are sufficient and why can't I find proof an internal RNG audit over the last five years-PLZ do!!!!! I AND ALL ONLINE POKER PLAYERS WANT SOME PROOF THAT THE DEAL IS RANDOM- *THATS WHY THIS THREAD IS SO POPULAR*!!!!! IS THAT TO MUCH TO ASK FOR??????
I ask these questions on behalf of all online poker players. We deserve respect and assurance that we all play in a fair game!! DO WE NOT??
*DISCUSS*
"Its not the questions that are the problem its the answers.", Tom Brokaw.
No, it hasn't been edited. If it had been, you'd see something underneath that says "Last edited by..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker View Post
I actually do want online poker as it is now banned. When a US company hosts the servers on US land and lets a real agency regulate it I would support it.
But you're already supporting it.
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