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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:15 AM   #12576
TableRunnersENT
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

No one that plays online can deny that they have seriously never seen so many 1-3 outters hit. It seems to me that everytime you are ahead drastically things turn around every time for the other person. Plus a computer can not generate a random number so how are the cards random? Even if they are always being shuffled there is some sort of timing involved of sequence.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:25 AM   #12577
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by TableRunnersENT View Post
No one that plays online can deny that they have seriously never seen so many 1-3 outters hit
Yeah, nothing about this sentence is super vague at all.
Quote:
It seems to me that everytime you are ahead drastically things turn around every time for the other person.
Then you've beaten the system. Start jamming it in way behind and rake in the cash.
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Plus a computer can not generate a random number so how are the cards random?
Wow, this is both true and something never once brought up in 12,000 posts.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:24 AM   #12578
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
The point that I was focused on during this discussion was that if somebody was capable of hacking an online poker site, why wouldn't they be hacking online banking systems.

Let's imagine I googled all of these examples of online banking scams and posted the links below of their methods and their punishments. B/c I'm lazy and you know they're there.

Now let's imagine in your next post your going to provide links and references that shows an example of an online poker operator or player being prosecuted for fraud or abuse. B/c that's all we can do...
This is actually a fair point.

You can't use the argument that if people had good enough hacking abilities they may as well rob a bank as hack on-line poker any more than you could use the argument that anyone who had a gun could might just as well rob a bank as mug someone.

tk1133 is exactly right in this instance.

However, the pokersite/bank dichotomy is hardly a major plank in the argument that on line poker is probably not rigged.

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After merge, and before QPW...
Bet that wasn't the post you were expecting.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:40 AM   #12579
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by TableRunnersENT View Post
Plus a computer can not generate a random number so how are the cards random?
Because they don't shuffle them using a computer algorithm.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:19 AM   #12580
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

why is this thread so big?
just how hard is it to have some kind of software to check if anything is out of norm at X sample size.
of course, 1k sample, nothing is out or norm.
but 1 million sample say 40k hand get it in with flushdraw on turn.
if flush make it more then 20%, then it's rigged, if not, then it's not rigged.
i don't understand why this thread is so big.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:10 AM   #12581
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by signuptoday View Post
why is this thread so big?
just how hard is it to have some kind of software to check if anything is out of norm at X sample size.
of course, 1k sample, nothing is out or norm.
but 1 million sample say 40k hand get it in with flushdraw on turn.
if flush make it more then 20%, then it's rigged, if not, then it's not rigged.
i don't understand why this thread is so big.

Spade did a very detailed study of a monster sampling of hands. The thread is big because paranoia and conspiracy beliefs are never constrained by mere proof and evidence, they simply adapt to find ways to ignore it.

Then people make fun of them.

Then qpw and tk yank each others hair. Or brush it.

Then I toss in a snide remark here and there. Maybe adding Lizard People.


Standard soap opera style debate with conspiracy stuff thrown in. The closest thing to the "Neverending Story" that is possible.


You would be naive to assume proof of it being clean would change anything .
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:05 PM   #12582
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Then people make fun of them.

Then qpw and tk yank each others hair. Or brush it.

Then I toss in a snide remark here and there. Maybe adding Lizard People.
Dear old Monty.

She likes to have a little ***** every four weeks or so.

We make allowances for her.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:32 PM   #12583
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by TableRunnersENT View Post
No one that plays online can deny that they have seriously never seen so many 1-3 outters hit. It seems to me that everytime you are ahead drastically things turn around every time for the other person. Plus a computer can not generate a random number so how are the cards random? Even if they are always being shuffled there is some sort of timing involved of sequence.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:22 PM   #12584
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
You guys are all fool of it IYAM.
Whose on first????
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:26 PM   #12585
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

@tk1133 - Are your whole points that:
1) Someone exists that can hack poker site
2) Hacking poker site is more appealing than hacking banks for whatever reason

Well:
1) Agree. Google mail was hacked from china a week ago. Stuff is hacked day in and day out. It is just that these things are with near-zero probability, plus that much less smaller businesses than even the smallest pokesites have tracing at technical auditing that allows pretty fast to first determine, second prevent those attacks asap. In reallity, as I said, if someone sees someone else hole card, it is quite certainly due to a trojan horsed player (so take care what pron you download!) rather then any other theoretical reason you can imagine.

2) Here I actually don't agree. Hacks occur from countries with poor jurisdictions and businesses in the "best" jurisdictions aren't at all protected from that. Therefore it is irrelevant where the site resides (for this particular thing!) and "no consequences for the attacker" isn't really an argument here.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:23 PM   #12586
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Dear old Monty.

She likes to have a little ***** every four weeks or so.

We make allowances for her.
Hey now, no cat fight techniques please, save them for tk when he is taking a break from playing and you are taking a break from pretending to play

Anyway, I am off to play

/meow
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:26 PM   #12587
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

what the hell does it mean to "hack" a poker site?

what exactly are you alleging that hackers would do if they "hacked" a site?
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:18 PM   #12588
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Hey now, no cat fight techniques please
Just quit your bitching, Monty, there's a good girl.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:25 PM   #12589
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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what the hell does it mean to "hack" a poker site?
To gain access to the site's servers in such a way that the hackers could gain knowledge that should not be accessible to them or influence the actions of the server's software in some way they were not intended to.

Pretty much the same as hacking any other server(s).

Quote:
what exactly are you alleging that hackers would do if they "hacked" a site?
Well, in the case of Pokerstars, given that the hand is fully dealt before play commences if you hacked the system you could find everyones hole cards and what community cards were on the way.

On FT you would not be able to find the community cards ahead of time.

That, is what you could do if you could hack the system.

Of course, the chances that you could hack any major site's systems are pretty well nil and the possibility that you could do so without being detected fairly quickly are even more remote.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:28 PM   #12590
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Online poker is for suckers with no lives.
You deserve to get rigged.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:50 PM   #12591
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Online poker is for suckers with no lives.
You deserve to get rigged.
Yawn.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:02 PM   #12592
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

qpw - agree with all you wrote, except this one:

Quote:
Well, in the case of Pokerstars, given that the hand is fully dealt before play commences if you hacked the system you could find everyones hole cards and what community cards were on the way. On FT you would not be able to find the community cards ahead of time.
The more "security" on FT due to the different dealing does not make difference in practice. Gaining access to everyone's hole cards is pretty much the same as gaining access to everyone's hold cards plus the upcoming community cards.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:58 PM   #12593
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Just quit your bitching, Monty, there's a good girl.
Sorry qpw,. I am a dude. If fantasizing about me being female is your thing, well - that's your thing. Just clearing up the facts for you. Carry on though as you wish.

Seriously though - do you actually play poker? Yes or no? You can call me whatever female names you like while answering that if you need.

Reality is, people who actually play have a lot more power in their opinions whether a riggie or a "shill." At least they play. Even Bucket played till he quit after he could not win at a relatively easy game.

Honestly, I never felt like you played even semi-seriously. You have a lot of passion in your beliefs and are at times genuinely entertaining, but you do feel like a fake with regard to being a poker player.

All the best.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:53 PM   #12594
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

now this thread is getting juicy again
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:13 AM   #12595
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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now this thread is getting juicy again
+1, I am entertained.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:16 AM   #12596
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by indianaV8 View Post
qpw - agree with all you wrote, except this one:



The more "security" on FT due to the different dealing does not make difference in practice. Gaining access to everyone's hole cards is pretty much the same as gaining access to everyone's hold cards plus the upcoming community cards.
Can it be done?
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:33 AM   #12597
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

YOU CAN FIND THIS ON CAKES WEBSITE

It is important to note that computers are deterministic machines, and as such, they cannot produce truly random numbers. For this reason one often refers to Pseudo Random Number Generators (PRNG). Pseudo implies that a PRNG does not produce truly random numbers, but numbers that are random enough for a specific practical use.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:23 AM   #12598
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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YOU CAN FIND THIS ON CAKES WEBSITE

It is important to note that computers are deterministic machines, and as such, they cannot produce truly random numbers. For this reason one often refers to Pseudo Random Number Generators (PRNG). Pseudo implies that a PRNG does not produce truly random numbers, but numbers that are random enough for a specific practical use.
THANKS. WHAT'S YOUR POINT?
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:40 AM   #12599
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Sorry qpw,. I am a dude.
Well, why don't you stop acting like a little girl with your silly little outbursts of bitchiness?

Quote:
Seriously though - do you actually play poker?
You are starting to sound like tk1133.

Quote:
Honestly, I never felt like you played even semi-seriously.
You really are starting to sound as daft as any of the 'tards, now.

Unless someone makes stupid mistakes about the rules of the game it's hard to see how anyone could possibly reach such a conclusion.

It's usually a sign of s rigtard who's run out of anything intelligent to say and just starts flailing around handing out nonsense.

Quote:
You have a lot of passion in your beliefs
There is no passion in a belief.

A certain tenaciousness, maybe, in resisting the promulgation of spurious information.

Quote:
but you do feel like a fake with regard to being a poker player.
As you've now taken on the mantle of the most desperate rigtard I'm going to ask you the same simple question that I and many others ask them:

Evidence?


All the best.[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:45 AM   #12600
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by indianaV8 View Post
The more "security" on FT due to the different dealing does not make difference in practice. Gaining access to everyone's hole cards is pretty much the same as gaining access to everyone's hold cards plus the upcoming community cards.
I agree it makes no difference in practice.

But the whole thing is hypothetical anyway and it's a hypothetical extra weakness.

Seeing other's hole cards would enable you to win at such a rate that you would be spotted in double quick time.

Plus, hacking a poker site would be about as easy as hacking an ATM.
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