Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2010, 08:56 PM   #12551
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Standard practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by indianaV8 View Post
This is nonsense. Illegal content like hacking hole cards has never "lived" for more than an hour anywhere I'm in charge. I'm not interested to engage with you in debates, therefore I wouldn't discuss this further.

As a side note, I can actually tell you how I personally treat the most annoying rigtards. There was one especially dumb, which after some investigation also happened to be involved in illegal activities elsewhere in the net. I not only banned him, I furthermore recovered his complete name and address and reported him to his ISP, and to the UK police computer crime investigation and forensics litigation support department.
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 08:58 PM   #12552
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
That email is real it proves that POKERSTARS IS FRAUD . Besides I can prove the email is real. This makes you question the famous players. Did pokerstars just cheat to get them to the top. Thats right they are no better than you or I.
<Applause>

Now let's go get the lizard people!
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 08:59 PM   #12553
banonlinepoker
banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,338
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

That email is spot on. A computer or program can not produce random results. Which is why you see more bad beats than you should. The hands will and do repeat themselves by design. If you think your getting a random shuffle your drinking the online poker cool aide
banonlinepoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 09:04 PM   #12554
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
So before we can attempt to prevent possible and plausible travesty's from occuring, we have to wait for another UB/AP super user bomb to explode and millions of dollars lost. No recourse, except for slander.

Kinda like 9/11 and our Air Travel
-Prove that it somebody is going to hijack another plane and attack us before we heighten airport security.

I bet you wrote the FAA and HS and ridiculed them for their increase in security for example, implementing and spending that kind of money on bullet proof, vaulted doors to their pilots cabins...
You are creating weird circular arguments. Stop doing that.

You need to prove there are super users to show there are super users. Implications that they exist based on other factors is not proof. Stop using that as proof of anything as it weakens your points.

You can suggest all sorts of rules and legislation be introduced, but honestly I suspect your knowledge of how a lot of this is handled is quite limited in nature (not saying I have expertise either). If you think there are specific issues then point them out in DETAIL and show exactly what you believe needs to be done to rectify the situation.

I do appreciate you have let the weird troll routine behind which is why I am responding in a serious manner, but honestly all you have constructed is the following

Superusers must exist because you think not enough oversight and legistlation is in place.

That is an opinion, a semi-reasonable one to have (especially on the dinky little sites), but merely an opinion and nothing more.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 09:06 PM   #12555
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker View Post
That email is spot on. A computer or program can not produce random results. Which is why you see more bad beats than you should. The hands will and do repeat themselves by design. If you think your getting a random shuffle your drinking the online poker cool aide


Where could one get this cool aide? It would be like the guy in the Matrix that wanted to forget that he never knew...oooh... i could be happy again...
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 09:09 PM   #12556
TeamTrousers
talks the talk
 
TeamTrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Remembering when stars was good
Posts: 12,902
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

5 star thread imo. Thought it died a week ago, but glad it's back. Needed a laugh after downswonging.

Bobo wins!

Last edited by TeamTrousers; 01-26-2010 at 09:11 PM. Reason: up up down down left right left right B A to get the boomswitch back on. Amirite, Alex?
TeamTrousers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 09:10 PM   #12557
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

That's it, I want all of the money I have ever deposited and lost on Pokerstars back right away along with One Million Dollars for my pain and suffering.

There, I should be getting a check soon...
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 09:38 PM   #12558
Bobo Fett
Carpe Diem
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 52,394
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
That email is real it proves that POKERSTARS IS FRAUD . Besides I can prove the email is real. This makes you question the famous players. Did pokerstars just cheat to get them to the top. Thats right they are no better than you or I.
You don't need to prove it's real. We know. We've seen it before. Learn to read. It proves nothing, but we know it's real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker View Post
That email is spot on. A computer or program can not produce random results. Which is why you see more bad beats than you should. The hands will and do repeat themselves by design. If you think your getting a random shuffle your drinking the online poker cool aide
Sigh.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 09:41 PM   #12559
Bobo Fett
Carpe Diem
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 52,394
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Well, the stupid seems to really have ramped up ITT. I'm usually the guy that merges the rigged threads even though I don't mod this forum. This one wasn't just about rigging to start with (although the undertones were there), but now that's all it is. It's gotten so big that I think it'll just be a big mess if we merge them now. Any chance you riggies (I like that new, less insulting term) could all move to the The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition thread where this debate belongs, or do we need to close down this thread to make that happen? Seems pretty silly to have two big threads like this going at once.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 09:56 PM   #12560
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
There is the proof This means that the whole site is a fraud.
Did you know that Americans are actually not legally obligated to pay income tax? It's true! Income tax is voluntary, you can just not pay it and there's nothing the IRS can do to you.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 10:20 PM   #12561
Devilboy666
veteran
 
Devilboy666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,569
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

At first I thought this thread should be merged with the Rigged Thread of Doom, but now I think it just needs to be moved to 'Laughs and Links'
Devilboy666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 10:33 PM   #12562
TeflonDawg
Pooh-Bah
 
TeflonDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: RetiredExtremelyDangerous
Posts: 5,667
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTrousers View Post
up up down down left right left right B A
This code actually destroys your ship in Gradius III for SNES. Traumatic event in my childhood.

But I love how it gives my facebook page lazers!
TeflonDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 10:43 PM   #12563
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
You are creating weird circular arguments. Stop doing that.

You need to prove there are super users to show there are super users. Implications that they exist based on other factors is not proof. Stop using that as proof of anything as it weakens your points.

You can suggest all sorts of rules and legislation be introduced, but honestly I suspect your knowledge of how a lot of this is handled is quite limited in nature (not saying I have expertise either). If you think there are specific issues then point them out in DETAIL and show exactly what you believe needs to be done to rectify the situation.

I do appreciate you have let the weird troll routine behind which is why I am responding in a serious manner, but honestly all you have constructed is the following

Superusers must exist because you think not enough oversight and legistlation is in place.

That is an opinion, a semi-reasonable one to have (especially on the dinky little sites), but merely an opinion and nothing more.

The point that I was focused on during this discussion was that if somebody was capable of hacking an online poker site, why wouldn't they be hacking online banking systems.

Let's imagine I googled all of these examples of online banking scams and posted the links below of their methods and their punishments. B/c I'm lazy and you know they're there.

Now let's imagine in your next post your going to provide links and references that shows an example of an online poker operator or player being prosecuted for fraud or abuse. B/c that's all we can do...
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 10:47 PM   #12564
TeflonDawg
Pooh-Bah
 
TeflonDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: RetiredExtremelyDangerous
Posts: 5,667
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
I have an email were Poker stars admits to me that their cards are not random. They say that their cards are controlled by players mouse movements. This is huge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
Do you work for Poker Stars buddy? I got proof
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
PokerStars Support - Random shuffle, loyalty bonus
From: PokerStars Support <support@pokerstars.com>Add to Contacts
To: bwienman@rocketmail.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Betty,

Thank you for your email.

We did *NOT* state that it is impossible to have a random shuffle. We stated it is impossible for a
computer *BY ITSELF* to produce a random shuffle.

"Whilst I agree that no computer program is capable of producing truly random results, this is not the
case for PokerStars. To explain why you need to understand that, on its own, a computer could only
produce a pseudo-random shuffle, with results essentially dictated by the program.

Consider the following situation however; what if the computer had a human casino dealer sitting next
to it shuffling decks of cards and feeding them into the computer, and the computer then dealt out the
cards in the order that the dealer shuffled them? In this case the computer isn't simply relying on
its own program to deal the cards. It is also influenced by an independent, random, and unpredictable
stimulus - the human dealer.

Similarly at PokerStars, the shuffle program is influenced by two independent, random, and
unpredictable external stimuli, being:

1) Combined mouse movements from players connected to PokerStars
2) Thermal movements around the computer's thermal entropy chip

Just one of these stimuli in combination with the shuffle program would be sufficient to produce an
entirely unpredictable and random shuffle, however PokerStars has applied both."

Further, we do not have any deposit bonuses available at this time, but you are free to utilize any of
our VIP loyalty rewards which are based on your volume of play. Full details are available here:

http://www.pokerstars.com/vip/

Thank you for your understanding.

Regards,

Lars
PokerStars Support Team
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
There is the proof This means that the whole site is a fraud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
bobo You have not seen this email. You work for Poker stars. I just let them know I was going to send this out and then here you come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerstarsexposed View Post
POKER STARS IS FRAUD
[ ] huge
[ ] proof
[ ] fraud
[ ] Bobo works for Stars
[x] ITT pse fails massively @ reading comprehension resulting in severe self-pwnage

Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker View Post
That email is spot on. A computer or program can not produce random results. Which is why you see more bad beats than you should. The hands will and do repeat themselves by design. If you think your getting a random shuffle your drinking the online poker cool aide
[x] it's kool aid, you ****ing moron
[x] massive fail by association
[?] if bop knows bad beats happen more often than they should, why isn't he on Stars right now playing accordingly, and making potentially unlimited profit?

Please merge this garbage-assed thread already FFS.
TeflonDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 10:50 PM   #12565
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeflonDawg View Post
This code actually destroys your ship in Gradius III for SNES. Traumatic event in my childhood.

But I love how it gives my facebook page lazers!
I thought it was the blood code for Mortal Combat...ABACABB
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 10:53 PM   #12566
Bobo Fett
Carpe Diem
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 52,394
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Came up with a better idea - just moved the posts from today out of the Stars RNG audit thread, since that's when it really turned silly. Unfortunately, it's a little confusing since both threads had a fair bit of activity today, but well, that's sort of what this thread's for!
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 11:00 PM   #12567
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeflonDawg View Post
[ ] huge
[ ] proof
[ ] fraud
[ ] Bobo works for Stars
[x] ITT pse fails massively @ reading comprehension resulting in severe self-pwnage



[x] it's kool aid, you ****ing moron
[x] massive fail by association
[?] if bop knows bad beats happen more often than they should, why isn't he on Stars right now playing accordingly, and making potentially unlimited profit?

Please merge this garbage-assed thread already FFS.
If I agree, can we still go after the Lizard People?
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 11:04 PM   #12568
TeflonDawg
Pooh-Bah
 
TeflonDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: RetiredExtremelyDangerous
Posts: 5,667
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I thought it was the blood code for Mortal Combat...ABACABB
google "konami code"
TeflonDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 11:10 PM   #12569
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Depending on which casino you circumvent, there are no legal prosecutions. I would like to see one example of a legal prosecution against a player or a poker site for fraud or any type of abuse.

Bobo, if you came across a way to circumvent securities at both an online bank and an online poker site, which would you choose?

Also, if we reverse engineer the entire super user scandal's, it's easy to see how they got caught and scary to imagine how long it could of gone on. Had they not gotten so greedy and "flashy" with their play, that entire thread would be buried in the great rigged debate.

Had they lurked under the radar, like many do now, they wouldn't of gotten caught. Over time they can evaluate the best poker players EV and ROI and play just below that percentile to avoid detection.
After merge, and before QPW...
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 11:36 PM   #12570
Biggle10
veteran
 
Biggle10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Louis/ Ultimate Frisbee pitch
Posts: 2,965
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
There is no full proof way
Full proof? If you make something full proof, somebody will just build a better full.
Biggle10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2010, 11:48 PM   #12571
smithcommajohn
grinder
 
smithcommajohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: acceptance
Posts: 533
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

a full and his money are soon parted
smithcommajohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 12:53 AM   #12572
Bobo Fett
Carpe Diem
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 52,394
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

You guys are all fool of it IYAM.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 01:06 AM   #12573
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
The point that I was focused on during this discussion was that if somebody was capable of hacking an online poker site, why wouldn't they be hacking online banking systems.

Let's imagine I googled all of these examples of online banking scams and posted the links below of their methods and their punishments. B/c I'm lazy and you know they're there.

Now let's imagine in your next post your going to provide links and references that shows an example of an online poker operator or player being prosecuted for fraud or abuse. B/c that's all we can do...
Seriously, if pigs could fly then they could fly.

You can theorize and conjecture all you like, lots of conspiracy guys do that for all sorts of things, but until you prove something or at least show how you can prove something all it is is just that - theoretical flying pigs.


Not sure what you really want to go with this. If people had super powers they would use them to profit. Except the pattern recognition powers riggies have. They merely complain.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 02:45 AM   #12574
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
Re: Stars admits to RNG NOT being audited since 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeflonDawg View Post
google "konami code"
for a golden account its Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start.

Last edited by batair; 01-27-2010 at 02:48 AM. Reason: Contra
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2010, 02:52 AM   #12575
otatop
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: unstuckpolitics.com
Posts: 12,727
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
If you did it constantly over 830 pages then yes you probably do work for Poker Industry.
So anybody who says 9/11 wasn't an inside job in a thread about that whole wacky mess is a Government agent, right?
otatop is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive