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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-02-2009, 09:28 AM   #1201
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I guess we're bad players and ******s for losing consistantly when we're over an 80 percent favorite to win.
you lose 20% of the time when you're an 80% favorite.

if you contend otherwise, please provide data to back that claim up.

you're a bad player and a ****** for not understanding that.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:43 AM   #1202
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I lose 20 percent of the time?! Where did you get that fact? Marc honest question. Does a particular online poker site employ you to write on this site? Or have you ever been contacted by a poker site or the Admin's. at two plust two to write in these threads to "debunk" these theories?
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:47 AM   #1203
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Re: Friend of Mine used to work for FTP

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
It's not that no site could ever be rigged it's just that there is absolutely no evidence that any site is or has been rigged (in terms of the deal).

When the superuser scandal broke malfeasance was accepted as soon as credible proof was offered.
When the super user thing came out, all of you "debunkers" said that they were rigtards and it's impossible to see other people's hole cards....So what are you talking about? If it wasn't for Josem, nobody would know the truth...we'd all be rigtards
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:55 AM   #1204
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I lose 20 percent of the time?! Where did you get that fact?
It's not that hard - 100% - 80% = 20%.

Again, if you claim that not to be the case, PROVIDE PROOF OR STFU!!!!!!
Quote:
Marc honest question. Does a particular online poker site employ you to write on this site? Or have you ever been contacted by a poker site or the Admin's. at two plust two to write in these threads to "debunk" these theories?
First, why would you think my name is "Marc?" It's Mark.

Next, no, I am not employed by any site to post here or anywhere else, nor have the administrators asked me to do such a thing.

I just have a low tolerance for idiocy.

So you think it's rigged? Well, you're entitled to your opinion. However, this is the INTERNET POKER FORUM. You know, where people who like to play Online Poker discuss stuff. If you don't enjoy this activity, WHY THE **** ARE YOU HERE SO MUCH????!?!?!?!?! It makes as much sense as getting season tickets to see your least favorite sports team!

You obviously have some sort of an agenda to push, or you wouldn't keep bothering us with your unsubstantiated claims. Really, what is the point of your continued speculation on this issue? Because that's all it is - a hunch. We get your point, and disagree. Please let it go.

I don't know what's sadder, the fact you genuinely seem to believe that poker sites are out to get you or that you don't understand why we're fed up with your conspiracy theories that have absolutely no basis in fact.

So, I'll ask once again: Please post proof that your 80% favorites are losing more than 20% or shut up about it. You can certainly exercise your right to NOT play poker online, but there's no reason to tell us about it. Just leave quietly or accept the abuse that you regularly ask for every time you 'tard up this place
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
When the super user thing came out, all of you "debunkers" said that they were rigtards and it's impossible to see other people's hole cards....
link please? or is this just another theory?
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:59 AM   #1205
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Re: Friend of Mine used to work for FTP

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
When the super user thing came out, all of you "debunkers" said that they were rigtards and it's impossible to see other people's hole cards....So what are you talking about? If it wasn't for Josem, nobody would know the truth...we'd all be rigtards
So it turned out some of the rigtards weren't actually rigtards, but that probably doesn't actually include you.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:29 AM   #1206
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by Iron Mic Titan View Post
It wouldn't make sense for Howard Lederer and his compadres to know this is happening (which would be obvious, especially if your friend knows about it, it would be assumed that the big wigs obviously know about this).

1. Lederer's a member of the PPA. If he's pushing to legalize poker, it would mean that there would be heavier oversight and regulation on online card rooms. Once that happens, any and all card rooms who're supposedly "rigged" would not only be shut down, but the owners would have hell to pay, including - but not limited to - innumerable amounts of moniez as well as heavy time in the bink.

2. Why in the blue hell would Lederer want to risk that? If anything, Lederer wouldn't be spearheading the PPA's agenda in order to risk getting "exposed". That's just a dumb azz move. Period. He's a) A CEO and b) A winning poker player. This means he's not dumb. (Notice I said winning poker player... many poker players *cough* ARE dumb.)
+1

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Originally Posted by Iron Mic Titan View Post

What you're talking about and what the OP is talking about is totally different.

OP is stating that FTP is cheating.

You're stating, correct me if I'm wrong, that players are cheating.

Huge difference. Just like in a B&M, you'll have players that try to cheat. That's a given. What OP is saying here, is that the house is cheating. That's where the difference lies.

As far as claiming other posters to be "naive" because they're questioning the OP's claims... would it be better if everybody just turns over on their backs and agrees with him? I seriously don't think that people are so naive as to negate the heavy possibility that there could be cheating that happens in the game of poker. But I do think that many people HAVE come to a conclusion that it wouldn't be... how would you say it... "+EV"... for companies like FTP to do so. There's just too much to risk for so little in return. These companies make their money off of rake, not off of petty schemes.

Can I prove that FTP is NOT cheating? No.

Do I think they WOULD cheat? No.

Do I think that players cheat? All the time, as long as they still have that opportunity.

Do I think FTP would take measures to counteract cheating? Of course. If the environment isn't safe for their customers, if they have a bad reputation for being unable and unwilling to identify and eradicate platforms of cheating, they'll ultimately lose their bottom line: customers.

Where there is gambling there is greed. Where there is greed there is cheating. I certainly understand that the good old folks at Full Tilt/PokerStars, etc. aren't my best friends and that their primary goal is to gain as much money from me as possible. But I also understand that, because of this, they would do all that they can in their power to ensure that cheaters aren't the cause for me to take my business elsewhere.
+1
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:31 AM   #1207
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

So you say "we"? "Really, what is the point of your continued speculation on this issue? Because that's all it is - a hunch. We get your point, and disagree. Please let it go."
Who is we? All i've seen is that you guys talk down to people that say it's rigged. You guys must of had conversations about the subject with out the rest of us seeing? How and where did you come up with "we." And like you said there's no proof it's rigged and there's no proof that it's not rigged. Well it's about the players security! You can't put a price on safety. If I have some evidence show it? If somebody did have proof you'd just rip them down and try to decredit them to the readers. This is a cat and mouse game here, Somebody says it's rigged, then you have to negate that by ripping the author apart so that:
A.) He feels as if he made a mistake by writing online poker is rigged.

B.) The readers that read such posts, might take him as gospel and pull their funds off online poker sites and never play online again.

C.) Make the author feel like he is alone on his stance on online poker being rigged. Maybe he'll forget about it.

D.) Ask him to prove something that only certain online poker site employees can prove.

F.) Make sure nobody believes online poker is rigged, b/c nobody would play!

G.) Tell us if we think it's rigged we just shouldnt play and leave everybody alone and not share why. Let our fellow citizens get robbed and mind our own business.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:35 AM   #1208
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Re: Friend of Mine used to work for FTP

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Originally Posted by sokrateez View Post
one thing i dont understand is how some people on here think that comparing the thought of an online poker site be rigged or something of the possibility of someone having a program to see other players hole cards gets compared to conspiracy theories and aliens and other weird ****.

The conspiracy theory thought structure is the same for each scenario. Fuzzy, vague "data" and conclusions based on that and things they know in their gut to be true.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sokrateez View Post
i don't know if people just don't want to believe it or they are just that naive.
Speak to any UFO nut or 9/11 nut or any conspiracy nut and this will be the foundation of their beliefs. They know the secret hidden truth that the rest of us naive fools do not.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:44 AM   #1209
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
So you say "we"?...Who is we?
"we" are the regular posters in the Internet Poker Forum.
Quote:
And like you said there's no proof it's rigged and there's no proof that it's not rigged.
what is so hard about this concept? until there is proof of a crime there is no prosecution!!!!
Quote:
Well it's about the players security! You can't put a price on safety.
no, it's about an excuse for your poor play. if you think online sites are stealing from players, SIMPLY DON'T PLAY. That's it.
Quote:
If I have some evidence show it? If somebody did have proof you'd just rip them down and try to decredit them to the readers.
humor me and bring some, then you can make that assumption about what I'll do.
Quote:
Tell us if we think it's rigged we just shouldnt play and leave everybody alone and not share why. Let our fellow citizens get robbed and mind our own business.
Look man, no one asked for your help nor are they accepting it either. If you want to do good deeds for your fellow citizens, try the local soup kitchen.

The idea that you are a hero of some sort helping out innocent victims is laughable. Do you post in Real Estate Fraud Forums too?

Again, based on your speculation about upcoming legislation in the poker industry (without attributed sources...) I feel you have a reason you keep posting here.

That, or you're just a troll who enjoys annoying me and others. If that's the case, contrats - 'cause you succeeded!
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:49 AM   #1210
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

http://news.pokerpages.com/index.php...k=view&id=2606


Now all of you read this and tell me what's different between then and now...?
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:51 AM   #1211
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

About 18 months.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:51 AM   #1212
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Good, b/c you don't speak for the online poker community marC. I spell your name wrong b/c i dont take you seriously...cant you post your stats for me...so i can treat you like the pokerlord that you think that you are. The sad thing is you have no idea what my ROI is?
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:53 AM   #1213
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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The sad thing is you have no idea what my ROI is?
Oh believe us. We do have some idea.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:55 AM   #1214
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Originally Posted by Rek View Post
About 18 months.

Other then the 18 months why does this guy sounds like you guys...? Anybody want to actually read this and retort? Or should I post some more links...I lost my bank roll today, I went all in w/ powerful pocket 2's, and lost to pocket 3's? He had the perfect hand to crack my 2's...definatly rigged....so i have all day.... (I guess i should add that was sarcasm)
Gimtards....Think i have a gimmick? That's not going to work...think of another motive i might have...?
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:58 AM   #1215
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Re: Friend of Mine used to work for FTP

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
When the super user thing came out, all of you "debunkers" said that they were rigtards and it's impossible to see other people's hole cards....So what are you talking about?
I've seen this argument several times now, but I've read those threads, which are here:
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12075548

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-stolen-99247/

They were taken seriously from the beginning, because there was evidence. The accusers were not mocked, were not called rigtards, and the 2+2 community quickly rallied to investigate it. The ones who get mocked in this forum are those who post unsubstatiated speculation and hunches with complete disregard for evidence and the laws of probability and poker, complete disregard for logic, complete disregard for the occam's razor principle, and complete failure to realize the business reasons why their claims are highly improbable and need strong evidence to substantiate. It's been seen so many times that it's just a joke, and that's why the responses are the way they are. Post some evidence and it will be taken seriously if it warrants it.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:58 AM   #1216
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Do you honestly think that when someone who is savvy enough to find 2+2 while researching Online Poker before deciding to play or not is swayed by your silly ideas without any proof?

You really think folks read your poorly-written theories and take them as fact when everyone else points out the holes in them, while you continually refuse to share any data to back up your points?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
http://news.pokerpages.com/index.php...k=view&id=2606


Now all of you read this and tell me what's different between then and now...?
Oh, and here's the difference, people on 2+2 said that Justin West was an idiot for not looking at the evidence:
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...&fpart=16&vc=1
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:59 AM   #1217
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Other then the 18 months why does this guy sounds like you guys...? Anybody want to actually read this and retort?
No
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:06 AM   #1218
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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Good, b/c you don't speak for the online poker community marC.
I believe that my opinions are more respected than yours.
Quote:
I spell your name wrong b/c i dont take you seriously...
you spell my name and everything else wrong 'cause you're just plain dumb. another reason no one takes you seriously.
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cant you post your stats for me...so i can treat you like the pokerlord that you think that you are.
I did once already at your request and when I asked you to return the favor you ignored me.
Quote:
The sad thing is you have no idea what my ROI is?
sadder still is that this isn't a question.

Ya know what? You're a Bottom-of-the-barrel, blaming everyone else for his problems, attention-seeking and just generally annoying ****ing ******.

Can you post proof of any sort there is something fishy going on when you play poker? I'm sure you can't, or you would have by now. Your childish antics have become rather boring, and they were not too good to begin with.

I don't understand what you are hoping to accomplish here. However, the only thing you are proving is you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm certain you've convinced everyone of that point, and nothing else.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:08 AM   #1219
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...vidence-34560/
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:09 AM   #1220
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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I guess we're bad players and ******s for losing consistantly
You were doing really well up to this point.

You were right on the nose.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:09 AM   #1221
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Obv his goal is get poker banned because he's a losing player and since he's so amazing at poker it can't be his fault he's losing.

I seriously hope these are not the type of people that get listened when discussing the legality of poker.

In other news, being canadian is fun.

edit: there's a huge difference between potripper and ftp or stars rigging it so we lose. ducy?
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:12 AM   #1222
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

No i'm not blaming 2+2...I'm blaming your bias and unreasonable opinion. I think If somebody said a casino was rigged or cheating...they'd call the gaming commission. Not scream and yell in their face telling them they're a rigtard. We have the right to ask. I don't think your credible to anybody but your cronies that join you in your crusade. It's like whats you ultimate goal? It appears to be that of business...not personal. But either way...explain the difference between the links i sent and now?
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:13 AM   #1223
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

They have the same gaming commission...?
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:13 AM   #1224
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

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posting this is an epic failure.

I don't really expect you to understand why, but that's because you're not clever. In fact, you're really not even clever enough to understand the words I've addressed to you, and I'm not gonna dumb it down for you.

Suffice it to say - you are clueless. good luck with your uncomplicated endeavors in the future.

Last edited by Markusgc; 04-02-2009 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:15 AM   #1225
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

okay this is back to being funny to me again because he's a moron.
continue.
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