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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:01 PM   #12101
Josem
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I'm curious has to how irrelevant and worthless Spade HH analysis is going to be when just about every site he pulled HH's from(with the help of an illegal botting site and data mine bots), will probably be BLACK BALLED from the US market....
So, your point is that Spadebidder's analysis only applies to what he analysed?

Obviously if someone plays on a site not covered by Spadebidder's analysis, then Spadebidder's analysis won't be relevant. That's self-evident and truistic.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:02 PM   #12102
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I think all countries should regulate this stuff. I think it is good that the USA will be following the leadership of countries like the Isle of Man, England and so on in doing this stuff.

FWIW, I think the English regime of evaluating the regulation in other jurisdictions and determining those that are credible and those that are not is probably another key part of any regulation process.
My opinion is worthless but I foresee PS in the US market legally before any other...
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:10 PM   #12103
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Half of some of this seems to be in code. I dont understnad it. I am older than most here but am new to the online poker and so yes

I do not understand some things.

Is there a better article or long paper written somewhere that goes over the arguments for the online poker rooms being fixed or altered in their deal?

People on this website are becoming passionately enraged at some suggestion of shady business.

Who are you and what is your agenda? What do you have with people speaking truth and rumor?

Thank you
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:39 PM   #12104
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

There aren't any credible papers on online poker being rigged, 'cause pretty much everyone who passionately believes this to be the case is:

a) wrong

b) ignorant

c) incoherent

d) unable to put together several consecutive paragraphs of logical thought
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:51 PM   #12105
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Mr. Giblet View Post
Half of some of this seems to be in code. I dont understnad it. I am older than most here but am new to the online poker and so yes

I do not understand some things.

Is there a better article or long paper written somewhere that goes over the arguments for the online poker rooms being fixed or altered in their deal?

People on this website are becoming passionately enraged at some suggestion of shady business.

Who are you and what is your agenda? What do you have with people speaking truth and rumor?

Thank you
The code you speak of is probability maths. Wikipedia explains the basics (See: Mathematical treatment)

I'd suggest learning that (not just the wiki) and then you will be better able to analyze your hands.

Basically though, hundreds of millions of hands have been analyzed and there is zero evidence so far of any rigging. So that makes a lot of us confident that rigging of the RNG is probably not going on.

Last edited by KingOfFelt; 01-15-2010 at 11:55 PM. Reason: Also, what Josem said.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:27 AM   #12106
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Josem View Post
There aren't any credible papers on online poker being rigged, 'cause pretty much everyone who passionately believes this to be the case is:

a) wrong

b) ignorant

c) incoherent

d) unable to put together several consecutive paragraphs of logical thought
Actually there was a nicely produced video of a "Full Tilt Audit" by the APCW guy jtodd, where they had some volunteers play a few thousand hands and then they made a bunch of conclusions, and the video "proved" that Full Tilt was rigged. It was soundly debunked and he actually apologized for doing such a poor study. I'm pretty sure they pulled down all the copies of the video they could find floating around and removed the discussion from their forums, it was so embarrassing.

This guy:
http://www.apcw.org/webmaster-video-feed.aspx

Last edited by spadebidder; 01-16-2010 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:31 AM   #12107
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Actually there was a nicely produced video of a "Full Tilt Audit" by the APCW guy jtodd, where they had some volunteers play 23,000 hands and then they made a bunch of conclusions. It was soundly debunked and he actually apologized for doing such a poor study. The video "proved" that Full Tilt was rigged. I'm pretty sure they pulled down all the copies of the video they could find floating around and removed the discussion from their forums, it was so embarrassing.
Nice, now they're being sued for employing Bots....Embarrassing...
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:39 AM   #12108
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Nice, now they're being sued for employing Bots....Embarrassing...
No, embarrassing to the producers of the video, who retracted it. Full Tilt didn't worry about such rubbish. It was 2+2 who debunked it (mainly).
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:41 AM   #12109
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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No, embarrassing to the producers of the video, who retracted it. Full Tilt didn't worry about such rubbish. It was 2+2 who debunked it (mainly).
Since your no longer ignoring my posts, I'll stop takin jabs at ya...
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Old 01-16-2010, 04:34 AM   #12110
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
I thought this had an appropriate scale on it for some posters.



2.5% of all people are under 70, really? That explains a lot.


.
It actually amazes me that that the median is 100 i.e. 50% of people are below that.

Does explain a lot though..
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Old 01-16-2010, 04:53 AM   #12111
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Nice, now they're being sued for employing Bots....Embarrassing...
When are you going to learn to:

a) Read?
b) Understand what you read?
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:44 AM   #12112
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I just did a manual hand analysis of how I busted in the last 100 tournaments on one of the big sites. Here is what I have found...

24 times I had the larger stack dominated and lost

48 times I was in a coin flip situation and lost to the larger stack

6 times I was all in against a bigger pair, KK vs AA, etc.

The rest was short stack desparation and tilt play.

I am going to continue going through my hand histories to see if the trend continues or gets worse. What I am seeing in the hand histories is exactly what my brain was telling me. There is no bias here due to my fallable human brain. There is some sort of un natural occurance happening on this site. This is exactly what I have been seeing most of 2009 until present.

No matter what I do, As soon as I decide to push, someone calls and gets lucky against me. This in most cases is during the first time that I am all in. I believe this is manufactured. For what reason, I have no idea.
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:57 AM   #12113
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I just did a manual hand analysis of how I busted in the last 100 tournaments on one of the big sites. Here is what I have found...

24 times I had the larger stack dominated and lost

48 times I was in a coin flip situation and lost to the larger stack

6 times I was all in against a bigger pair, KK vs AA, etc.

The rest was short stack desparation and tilt play.

I am going to continue going through my hand histories to see if the trend continues or gets worse. What I am seeing in the hand histories is exactly what my brain was telling me. There is no bias here due to my fallable human brain. There is some sort of un natural occurance happening on this site. This is exactly what I have been seeing most of 2009 until present.

No matter what I do, As soon as I decide to push, someone calls and gets lucky against me. This in most cases is during the first time that I am all in. I believe this is manufactured. For what reason, I have no idea.
Donko, why do you vacillate thus?
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:26 AM   #12114
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

yep, gettin old
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:50 AM   #12115
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

after what i saw on tables tonight i can say with out a doubt online poker is rigged
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:52 AM   #12116
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

After what I saw in the post above this I can say without a doubt that poofinger is an idiot.
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:53 AM   #12117
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Whatever. People are not really giving your degen bet any merit because

1) It is a waste of time for a small amount even with a 2-1 edge

2) You probably will not bother to do it when push comes to shove, you seem the all talk no action kind of guy.


Here is what I will offer. Not even 2-1 , I put up $5,000 you put up $7,500.

We use a trusted escrow agent and use data that you have no control over yourself (ie: pick an exact starting time and then have Josem or whoever send the zipped 2,000 hands to you, me, spade and others to analyze).

I will even tell you what I will do if and when you accept this stupid bet. I will sell off my $5,000 in chunks for $6,000 so others can get 5-4 on their money for a pure coin flip situation. This will take me I expect about 1 hour to do, factoring in a 30 minute break to eat.

That way, no matter if you win or lose I will be up $1,000 due to you being an emotional degen, so while I would root for you to lose, I actually would not care that deeply if you did once I am arbitraged out.

I will happily do this if and when you want, and this is pretty much exactly the type of thing I have done with various inefficient systems in the past.

$1,000 for this will be worth my efforts and time given the variable (ie: I am pretty sure you would vanish before it happened). $50, heh whatever post your wager in the sports betting or BBV forums and you will have people within a second.

Your routine of whine, propose something, then rationalize when others here say it proves nothing and is not worth the effort for 50 bucks is boring. Put up for real or shut up ad let the superbot people back in the chat.

Riggedologists are entertaining and once in a great while thought provoking. Whiny degens are just annoying.

All the best.
Prop bets are just for fun. Some people don't like them, obviously.
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:57 AM   #12118
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Mr. Giblet View Post
Verbose idiot

Bad poetry?

Are we speaking of Ms. Clampitt here?

This is a poker discussion
LOL This is a little bit of poker discussion and a whole lot of flaming and insulting.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:04 AM   #12119
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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fwiw, obviously without having looked at his hand histories, i'd be willing to bet that his past hands conform to within 4 standard deviations of normal.

that'd surely be even more generous to him than anything monteroy is offering.

You know you're on a bad thing when people are jumping over each other to make the bets more favourable to the rigtard.
Actually, nobody has taken this rigtard up on the bet I proposed. There have been some counterproposals and a lot of insults, but nobody has taken the prop bet even though I made it attractive.

BTW, make it easy. I play on PStars all the time, no need to escrow. If you don't trust me, obviously don't take the bet. But I'll make it a little more attractive. If you lose the first bet, I'll automatically give you another chance and you don't have to pay anything until the second bet is complete.

The way I handle casual bets is with trust. If trust is betrayed, I don't make any more props with that guy.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:06 AM   #12120
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Actually, nobody has taken this rigtard up on the bet I proposed. There have been some counterproposals and a lot of insults, but nobody has taken the prop bet even though I made it attractive.
That's because they know they'd never get their money.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:12 AM   #12121
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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That's because they know they'd never get their money.
If they didn't get their money, I'd be flamed forever. Don't worry, they'd get their money. This is the way I do business. It's not for everybody.

BTW, I said $100-$50. Obviously, not interested in putting serious money into it, just enough to be interesting to me. And the proposal has already worked for me.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:19 AM   #12122
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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If they didn't get their money, I'd be flamed forever.
Can you understand why people do not really take that as a cast iron guarantee when it comes from someone with a post count of 50?
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:21 AM   #12123
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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If they didn't get their money, I'd be flamed forever. Don't worry, they'd get their money. This is the way I do business. It's not for everybody.

BTW, I said $100-$50. Obviously, not interested in putting serious money into it, just enough to be interesting to me. And the proposal has already worked for me.
It isn't that no one wants to bet you, or even a matter of trust for the money (for me). It's that your bet doesn't follow from the point you originally made and now you just want to bet on a virtual coin flip for no real reason. Originally, your reason was "the dealer ain't square" and you were willing to bet on it. But your bet is now essentially betting on nothing but pure luck. I know some people like silly prop bets just for the hell of it, but it doesn't interest me. My interest was in proving a point to you, that you will in fact receive a normal distribution of small and big cards. I would bet much more than you proposed on this. But betting that you will have a single card more or less than the mean is 100% luck. It's exactly like saying, "I bet the next card dealt is black." Ok, so what?
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:27 AM   #12124
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I am still and currently reading the information provided by the kind persons here.

To taunt me with betting is insane. I don't gamble where there is not an advantage and I have no idea on what the code is so there is hidden knowledge from me.

THANK YOU
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:32 AM   #12125
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I just did a manual hand analysis of how I busted in the last 100 tournaments on one of the big sites. Here is what I have found...

24 times I had the larger stack dominated and lost

48 times I was in a coin flip situation and lost to the larger stack

6 times I was all in against a bigger pair, KK vs AA, etc.

The rest was short stack desparation and tilt play.

I am going to continue going through my hand histories to see if the trend continues or gets worse. What I am seeing in the hand histories is exactly what my brain was telling me. There is no bias here due to my fallable human brain. There is some sort of un natural occurance happening on this site. This is exactly what I have been seeing most of 2009 until present.

No matter what I do, As soon as I decide to push, someone calls and gets lucky against me. This in most cases is during the first time that I am all in. I believe this is manufactured. For what reason, I have no idea.
This is the most ******ed and flawed post I've read in 2 years of reading 2+2.
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