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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-13-2010, 03:19 PM   #12026
DonkoTheClown
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Nice to see at least one rigtard has looked at the website! How 'bout the rest of you?
The difference between me and the standard rigtard is that I am willing to look at evidence and state that there is no proof that online poker is rigged. I am however concerned that it might be. Up until this point in time, no one has been able to present any solid information to change my position. What I have to work with is my own experiences with online poker and all of the opinions of others experiences.

I think Spadebidders website is attempting to give us all something to grab on to when we are having discussions about this topic.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:46 PM   #12027
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

You say this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
The difference between me and the standard rigtard is that I am willing to look at evidence and state that there is no proof that online poker is rigged. I am however concerned that it might be. Up until this point in time, no one has been able to present any solid information to change my position. What I have to work with is my own experiences with online poker and all of the opinions of others experiences.

I think Spadebidders website is attempting to give us all something to grab on to when we are having discussions about this topic.

But then you say stuff like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
You are right, there is no way anyone would ever think to increase their bottom line. The 5 way chops that I saw 3 times in 20 minutes are just coincedence.

If I cant beat online poker, then so be it, but that is separate from the fact that I can clearly see that the constant action boards that myself and my friends are seeing online are clearly manufactured. There is no need to run stats and numbers when it is as clear as day that intentionally or unintentionally the cards are not random. Maybe you are right, maybe there is no evil behind all of this, maybe the sites programming just suck. I dont have the tools to prove it mathematically, so I am hoping someone does so that I can come back here and rub in all of the Trust-tards faces.
Were you just tilted when you wrote the above? It seems you are changing your position on this whole thing from time to time.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:31 PM   #12028
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
I dont believe in jolly green giants, but hey from your viewpoint with no proof I am wrong.
Oh look children, a strawman!
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:27 AM   #12029
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
I dont believe in jolly green giants, but hey from your viewpoint with no proof I am wrong.
Oh look children, a strawman!
It's worse than a straw man argument.

It demonstrates a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of simple logic.

He is equating not believing something exists without proof that it does not exist with believing something exists without proof that it exists.

The sort of error that young children often make.

He really does come across as aged ~12.
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:57 PM   #12030
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
You say this:




But then you say stuff like this:



Were you just tilted when you wrote the above? It seems you are changing your position on this whole thing from time to time.
Ya, I think that I float around between probably not rigged and probably rigged. That might have been after I played a few tournaments and bumped into some ugly beats.

I am trying to force myself to be scientific about this though...
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:25 PM   #12031
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The difference between me and other rigtards is that I don't give a **** about what anybody thinks about me or my "rational opinions."

I wouldn't take a **** and eat at the same time...even tho it sounds healthy....
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:08 PM   #12032
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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The difference between me and other rigtards is that I don't give a **** about what anybody thinks about me or my "rational opinions."

I wouldn't take a **** and eat at the same time...even tho it sounds healthy....
TK, what do you think of Spade's results so far?
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:42 PM   #12033
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I don't want to argue, I want to bet on something. I'll lay 2-1 that my cards don't breakeven over the next 2000 hands. I mean the dealer will give me more small cards than big cards. Over the last 2400+ hands, the cards are running about 3% below breakeven.

I'll bet the next 2000+ hands are not much different. Just a small bet, maybe $100-$50. The dealer ain't square.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:52 PM   #12034
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by TwoMoos View Post
I don't want to argue, I want to bet on something. I'll lay 2-1 that my cards don't breakeven over the next 2000 hands. I mean the dealer will give me more small cards than big cards. Over the last 2400+ hands, the cards are running about 3% below breakeven.

I'll bet the next 2000+ hands are not much different. Just a small bet, maybe $100-$50. The dealer ain't square.
What do you define as "high cards"? And is "K2" high or low?
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:59 PM   #12035
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Im not saying it is rigged, although I have my concerns, but anyone who would trust an offshore gaming service to never do anything dishonest to gain an extra buck is pretty naive. Actually it is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL naive.
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:18 AM   #12036
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoMoos View Post
I don't want to argue, I want to bet on something. I'll lay 2-1 that my cards don't breakeven over the next 2000 hands. I mean the dealer will give me more small cards than big cards. Over the last 2400+ hands, the cards are running about 3% below breakeven.

I'll bet the next 2000+ hands are not much different. Just a small bet, maybe $100-$50. The dealer ain't square.
Let's say "small" is 2-7, and "big" is 9-A. 24 cards each, and 8s don't count.

So both sets have 24/52 or 46% chance to be dealt. In 2000 hands or 4000 dealt cards, you should receive 1846 cards in each group (disregarding 8s, the median card). For a 99.99% confidence level we use 4 standard deviations, which in this case is +/- 126.

So I'll take your bet, that your next 2000 hands result in you receiving between 1720 and 1972 of each group, small cards and big cards. Or in your terms, that you recieve at least 1720 big cards 9+, in the next 2000 hands.

Choose a mod for escrow, you put in $100 and I put in $50. Then you zip up the 2000 hand histories with consecutive times, starting tomorrow, and post the link to them. The hand history files need the original file timestamp on them to show they are not edited.

If I've made a math error we'll agree on the correction.

Last edited by spadebidder; 01-15-2010 at 12:24 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:33 AM   #12037
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I think the "$100-$50" thing means he wants even odds, for somewhere between $50 and $100, not that he's laying 2 to 1.
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:36 AM   #12038
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Then you zip up the 2000 hand histories with consecutive times, starting tomorrow, and post the link to them. The hand history files need the original file timestamp on them to show they are not edited.
You can request that your last 2,000 (or however many) PokerStars hand histories be zipped up and uploaded to the PokerStars server for you to download. That link could then also be shared with the Mod escrowing the bet, and ensure that the hand histories are legitimate and unedited.
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:40 AM   #12039
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
I think the "$100-$50" thing means he wants even odds, for somewhere between $50 and $100, not that he's laying 2 to 1.
I'll put even money on it. $100 each.
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:49 AM   #12040
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I will happily take the bet on spade's side whenever stats are in debate between him and a riggedologist who knows what he remembers.

Put me in as well if this is going to happen, and note, I pretty much never do prop bets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
You can request that your last 2,000 (or however many) PokerStars hand histories be zipped up and uploaded to the PokerStars server for you to download. That link could then also be shared with the Mod escrowing the bet, and ensure that the hand histories are legitimate and unedited.
Well, he will probably say Stars was in on it or something.

Actually, I suspect we will never hear from him again.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:16 AM   #12041
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by AMEC0404 View Post
but anyone who would trust an offshore gaming service to never do anything dishonest to gain an extra buck is pretty naive. Actually it is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL naive.
Agreed, at least if you mean with absolute certainty. If you ever find someone like that, let us know.
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:56 AM   #12042
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

If TwoMoos posts in this thread again, it better be him accepting this bet.
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:51 AM   #12043
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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The difference between me and other rigtards is that I don't give a **** about what anybody thinks about me or my "rational opinions."
How can anyone think anything about something you have shown no evidence of possessing?
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:51 AM   #12044
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by AMEC0404 View Post
Im not saying it is rigged, although I have my concerns, but anyone who would trust an offshore gaming service to never do anything dishonest to gain an extra buck is pretty naive.
Everywhere is offshore to someone.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:36 AM   #12045
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by AMEC0404 View Post
Im not saying it is rigged, although I have my concerns, but anyone who would trust an offshore gaming service to never do anything dishonest to gain an extra buck is pretty naive. Actually it is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL naive.
good thing then that no one has actually said they trusted any site to never do anything dishonest.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:48 AM   #12046
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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good thing then that no one has actually said they trusted any site to never do anything dishonest.
This seems to be a common error amongst the new intake of rigtards: the idea that people are saying the there isn't or will/can not ever be be any rigging.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:32 AM   #12047
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I guess it's pretty logical to them actually.

Considering that most of them seem to believe that because rigging in some way or other is possible = it's actually proven that it is going on, it would not be a stretch for them to believe that because you think it's unlikely and that there is no proof = you actually believe it is impossible for rigging to exist.

it makes perfect sense in their heads.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:31 AM   #12048
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I guess it's pretty logical to them actually.

Considering that most of them seem to believe that because rigging in some way or other is possible = it's actually proven that it is going on, it would not be a stretch for them to believe that because you think it's unlikely and that there is no proof = you actually believe it is impossible for rigging to exist.

it makes perfect sense in their heads.
Well, when we're dealing w/ the reality of the situation, we have to have a skeptical outlook at the legitamacy of online poker. It has been corrupted before and will be again. I just don't understand your guys thinking on this....It's way too easy to manipulate and you guys act like the Vatican put a stamp of approval on it.

I can understand and appreciate the "proof" arguements, but some people are so set and "agenda like" about online poker being all holy and pure. It should be our duty as poker players to question their integrity until they earned the right to accept our bets....

"If it's not broke, don't fix it....well something is broke..."
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:32 AM   #12049
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I guess it's pretty logical to them actually.

Considering that most of them seem to believe that because rigging in some way or other is possible = it's actually proven that it is going on, it would not be a stretch for them to believe that because you think it's unlikely and that there is no proof = you actually believe it is impossible for rigging to exist.

it makes perfect sense in their heads.
So it does!

Very nicely thought out.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:34 AM   #12050
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

What would the Nevada Gaming Commission do if 3 B&M casino's were found to be cheating players, all in the same fasion and time frame? They would shake down the casino's in vegas and strip their L's.

Would anybody like to discuss the KGC and their control over all US based poker sites accept for 2?
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