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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-12-2010, 10:42 PM   #11976
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by RIVER_ACE View Post
Take 100 bucks a month to play poker with ups and downs, 100 bucks a month in the cookie jar at no interest, 100 bucks a month invested @ 5% and 100 bucks month played in the powerball over 20 years and see where the money is.
Poker > Interest > Cookies > Powerball.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:49 PM   #11977
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by RIVER_ACE View Post
I don't care that there are more hands per hour you will never see as many setup deals and the remaining players will almost allways connect with cards to make action (BS).
If this was true you could prove it in a day.
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Just watch some of the replay tables and see all of the cards, OMG there are aces on almost every hand rather it is full ring or down to 5,4,3 or HU just observe as you play. You couldn't make some of this happen with a deck of cards in a lifetime of shuffle and deal.
Again, this is something where you could easily say "Aces should show up x% of the time, but in the replay of the Sunday Million final table, they showed up y% of the time" and be a conquering hero providing easily obtained proof.

And yet your "proof" is just "It's so obvious!".
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:20 AM   #11978
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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why hasnt anyone working for the sites or someone motivated by the reality of the situation put the rigtards in their place by putting some real evidence up on a site somewhere to show conclusively once and for all that online poker is 100% legit?
Well because that would mean someone not conntected with the Indians or the site would have to inspect the server and they can't even get near them nor will the site allow it.

Quote:
These are the people who are most qualified or have the resources to do this
It's also counterproductive. The sites main goal is money and not being regulated or open to any law enforcement authority. They want to be able to operate totally free and away from any sort of law or taxes.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:19 AM   #11979
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by RIVER_ACE View Post
I am new to 2+2 but have played live and OL for many years. I signed up to put my 2 cents in on the subject. The first thing that should grab your attention is the graph with results from voting poll, about 60% obviously think that it's rigged. I don't know why there are so many posts and views with only a hand full of votes comparably. The sites should pay attention and try to fix their image. (Wish they were ran on US soil we collected tax)

I have read through most of the thread and would get the idea that a lot of yes'rigged have a beef of some sort and probably still play, some should quit, delete all and go on. The no'rigged bunch sound like professional propaganda writers with something to gain or lose? Spadebidder has the data approach but it still can't answer the question. My expierence with OL makes me believe that it is rigged by the operating software making action and the deal is not as random as people try to say it is. I don't care that there are more hands per hour you will never see as many setup deals and the remaining players will almost allways connect with cards to make action (BS). Just watch some of the replay tables and see all of the cards, OMG there are aces on almost every hand rather it is full ring or down to 5,4,3 or HU just observe as you play. You couldn't make some of this happen with a deck of cards in a lifetime of shuffle and deal. (I still play, get sucked out on over and over as well as make donk calls and win, run my PP into aces you know the stuff that happens in poker)

This argument is something like Religion, UFO's, Politics and the moon landing ect. There is no end in sight and no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for most. For all the data techs out there, crunch this. Take 100 bucks a month to play poker with ups and downs, 100 bucks a month in the cookie jar at no interest, 100 bucks a month invested @ 5% and 100 bucks month played in the powerball over 20 years and see where the money is.

Good luck at the RIVER

It's a bunch that is constantly getting bombarded with.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........ (should I keep goin?) .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......

ridiculous U-N-B-A-C-K-E-D claims!



& btw, I feel you in a lot of what you said, but take it from someone who's seen their fair share of cards..
it's more likely the player than it is the cards. Whether dealt online or live. Sht happens. If you play good and often enough, the end result will be a positive one. You just have to work at it. Look at Tom Dwan vs Isildur.. it happens to the best. Even Phil Ivey, the best in the world, had to put in a ton of work. It's not easy ESPECIALLY online.

| /.

Last edited by LVGambler; 01-13-2010 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:11 AM   #11980
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

OK, I checked a few flops and here's the data:

http://www.spadebidder.com/flop-analysis/part7/
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:22 AM   #11981
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Uh oh, spade has his data available... surely a rigtard will have some constructive criticism in response
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:18 AM   #11982
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
OK, I checked a few flops and here's the data:

http://www.spadebidder.com/flop-analysis/part7/
Very nice work, from the quick glance I just took.

But ouch at 3 embarrassing typos in my post you quoted - I edited it, so feel free to requote me, please.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:22 AM   #11983
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Very nice work, from the quick glance I just took.

But ouch at 3 embarrassing typos in my post you quoted - I edited it, so feel free to requote me, please.
Done.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:41 AM   #11984
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I think it would be nice if you could add a "let me summarize this for you math dummies out there" section at the end of each analysis section. Tbh, I can't follow a lot of what you're saying spadebidder. I never made it past Algebra in high school and can barely remember any of it anyways. It might be too much to ask being that you've already committed so much of your time already. But if your purpose is to show the "average person" what your analysis shows, then you need to speak in terms that everyone can understand. Or not. It's not really for my benefit. It'd be to the benefit of what your work is trying to accomplish (IMO).

It's like what you've wrote is the small print of the deal. You need to add some simpler terms for the less educated to read first. Then, maybe after they get a grasp on the basics, they can move in deeper to get at what's really there (in the small print).

Did that make sense? lol

Anyways, again, your work is appreciated and the site looks great!

LVG
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:49 AM   #11985
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Nice job spade.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:02 AM   #11986
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

for LVGambler, a summary:

Flop texture is NOT random, as expected due to card removal effects. Essentially, more paired flops due to people playing more with paired hole cards, more monotone flops due to people playing more with suited cards, less Aces and Kings on flops due to people playing more with those hole cards, etc.

I think the curious thing is that it shows quite clearly what some people have claimed about "rigged" flops (more pairs, more monotone, etc.), but gives a detailed analysis of WHY this is actually expected in a completely random deal. It's 4am here, so if I made some errors in my summary, please correct me, spadebidder. Incidentally, very nice work! I'm going to be spending a lot of time reading through this.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:06 AM   #11987
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by smithcommajohn View Post
for LVGambler, a summary:

Flop texture is NOT random, as expected due to card removal effects. Essentially, more paired flops due to people playing more with paired hole cards, more monotone flops due to people playing more with suited cards, less Aces and Kings on flops due to people playing more with those hole cards, etc.

I think the curious thing is that it shows quite clearly what some people have claimed about "rigged" flops (more pairs, more monotone, etc.), but gives a detailed analysis of WHY this is actually expected in a completely random deal. It's 4am here, so if I made some errors in my summary, please correct me, spadebidder. Incidentally, very nice work! I'm going to be spending a lot of time reading through this.

The only thing I'd add to your nice summary is that the effects are small. 30 or 40 extra paired flops per 100,000 are not going to be seen by human observation. People imagine they see such patterns, and a few of them turn out to be true. But just as many say that Aces flop too much, when the opposite is actually true.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:17 AM   #11988
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Done.
And blazingly quickly! TY TY.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:17 AM   #11989
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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They should lock this thread and move on. Nothing is being accomplished here outside of some laughs.
And what, pray, is wrong with some laughs?
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:47 AM   #11990
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
OK, I checked a few flops and here's the data:

http://www.spadebidder.com/flop-analysis/part7/
This data is great. having played millions of hands online myself I have never been a believer that flops are manipulated.

This changes nothing in my mind that online poker is not rigged. I know for a fact that cheating takes place online and im not talking just 2 people colluding. Im talking actually rigging of the game. And the easiest way to do this and the same way its been done before is by the use of super users. This is not a math issue to me. It does not take Enstien to play with a super account and not get caught. Forgive me if i missed it, but I was suprised with all that data there you failed to mention what site(s) it was from.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:51 AM   #11991
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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This changes nothing in my mind that online poker is not rigged.
So now, in your mind, you have it that online poker is not rigged.

Make up your mind.

Quote:
I know for a fact that cheating takes place online and im not talking just 2 people colluding. Im talking actually rigging of the game. And the easiest way to do this and the same way its been done before is by the use of super users.
Just more random accusations with neither evidence nor proof.

Move along, folks, nothing to see here, just the same ol' lame ol' rigtard nonsense.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:56 AM   #11992
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
So now, in your mind, you have it that online poker is not rigged.

Make up your mind.



Just more random accusations with neither evidence nor proof.

Move along, folks, nothing to see here, just the same ol' lame ol' rigtard nonsense.
As usual you have nothing to say but an insult. Still unwilling to accept that online poker has been rigged in the past.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:59 AM   #11993
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Barry Bonds and Mark Mcgwire did steroids its a fact. But no one else in the MLB is doing steroids right now, you know how i know? Cause I have no proof. Luckily for economists who apply probability and logic, we know that its more likely than unlikely that they're still steroid users in the MLB.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:59 AM   #11994
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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As usual you have nothing to say but an insult. Still unwilling to accept that online poker has been rigged in the past.
Your reading comprehension is rather poor.

There is very obviously something there other than an insult.

I have pointed out (correctly) that you are, once again, making statements with no evidence or proof.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:03 AM   #11995
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Your reading comprehension is rather poor.

There is very obviously something there other than an insult.

I have pointed out (correctly) that you are, once again, making statements with no evidence or proof.
I don't need evidence to know that something is more likely to be going on than not. Any poker player should be able to understand this. Everyday in real life scenarios people make a living from knowing things that are not yet proved.

And its already been proved online poker has been rigged in the past and it should make it that much easier for any non ****** to see that it is more likely too be rigged on a site(s) than unrigged.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:04 AM   #11996
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
Barry Bonds and Mark Mcgwire did steroids its a fact. But no one else in the MLB is doing steroids right now, you know how i know? Cause I have no proof. Luckily for economists who apply probability and logic, we know that its more likely than unlikely that they're still steroid use in the MLB.
The English language is a wonderful thing.

It has words for all occasions.

Thus, if we have proof that x is the case we can say: "X is the case.

If we have no proof that x either is or is not the case we can say: "X may be the case.

If we have proof that x is not the case we can say: "X is not the case.

What you are doing is saying:

I have no proof that x is the case and can say: "X is the case.

This demonstrates that you are an idiot. DUCY?
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:05 AM   #11997
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I was just over at Pokerscout checking some traffic numbers, and happened across their Stars reviews by readers, and was pretty surprised to see they had an average rating of 4.6/10 by 37 reviewers. So I read some of the comments, and holy rigtards Batman! Of course the rating's accuracy also isn't helped by the fact that it looks like people can rate it more than once.

So I had more of a look. FT - 3.2/10. I skimmed through some reviews, and enjoyed this one most of all:


Rating:10 / 10

By:rigtard

Date:Friday, April 03, 2009

Title:rigged, cant cashout4 out of 11 readers found this review helpful

Its totally rigged, no one can cash out, these red pro shills cant lose a hand, stay away.


Calls himself rigtard, and gives the site 10/10. LOL.

Party gets 6.4, iPoker 3.8, OnGame 3.6, Cereus 5.6. Apparently poker sucks everywhere.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:07 AM   #11998
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
I don't need evidence to know that something is more likely to be going on than not. Any poker player should be able to understand this. Everyday in real life scenarios people make a living from knowing things that are not yet proved.

And its already been proved online poker has been rigged in the past and it should make it that much easier for any non ****** to see that it is more likely too be rigged on a site(s) than unrigged.
I shall leave it to someone else to point out the absurdity of the above.

I'll just mention that you are making yourself look ever more foolish with your paranoid suppositions.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:08 AM   #11999
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
Barry Bonds and Mark Mcgwire did steroids its a fact. But no one else in the MLB is doing steroids right now, you know how i know? Cause I have no proof. Luckily for economists who apply probability and logic, we know that its more likely than unlikely that they're still steroid users in the MLB.
Why the **** do you keep repeating this sort of drivel? No one in this thread has ever claimed that online poker absolutely is not or can not be rigged.

NO

ONE
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:09 AM   #12000
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Cereus 5.6.
Are you serious?
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