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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:32 AM   #11801
DonkoTheClown
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Dude (you are one of the few I use this word with because it seems oddly appropriate).

Dude, my point is if there is evil going on it aint going to be all this convoluted crap you keep making up which by sheer coincidence magically explains why you cannot win in micro MTTs on Stars.

If there is evil going on it is simple and effective evil. Your stuff is the type of stuff that James Bond writers would laugh at as insane as they write their next plot about some guy taking over the world.

This is pretending you are being entirely serious in your posts, which I never do. I realize you are being partially serious because you are genuinely frustrated you cannot beat easy online games.

Your rigged theories annoy me because to be blunt - they suck. They are all essentially bad beat whines presented as "what if it is possible that they..." theories when all it is about is your shabby MTT results. They make no sense and they are not even fun like superbots or the guy who went on and on about the Russian mafia.
You are right, there is no way anyone would ever think to increase their bottom line. The 5 way chops that I saw 3 times in 20 minutes are just coincedence.

If I cant beat online poker, then so be it, but that is separate from the fact that I can clearly see that the constant action boards that myself and my friends are seeing online are clearly manufactured. There is no need to run stats and numbers when it is as clear as day that intentionally or unintentionally the cards are not random. Maybe you are right, maybe there is no evil behind all of this, maybe the sites programming just suck. I dont have the tools to prove it mathematically, so I am hoping someone does so that I can come back here and rub in all of the Trust-tards faces.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:45 AM   #11802
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
If I cant beat online poker, then so be it, but that is separate from the fact that I can clearly see that the constant action boards that myself and my friends are seeing online are clearly manufactured. There is no need to run stats and numbers when it is as clear as day that intentionally or unintentionally the cards are not random.
If it is clear to the human eye, then how come a multi-million hand analysis shows no pattern whatsoever? Oh right, a computer would never be able to notice the clear picture of a man in the moon, or animals in the clouds.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:47 AM   #11803
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

and around and around we go, can't even respond to this stuff any more... there's nothing new to say
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:38 AM   #11804
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which ""people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it"".[1]

The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than actuality; by contrast the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to a perverse result where less competent people will rate their own ability higher than more competent people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1]

“ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ”
— Bertrand Russell[2] "
Self diagnosis is a wonderful thing.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:46 AM   #11805
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I'm not the one that personally attacks other's credibility, or their poker playing abilities based on....nothing...
Not only do you attack other's credibility you are also quite prepared to tell bare faced lies and post unmitigated nonsense.

When these are exposed you just go ground for a few days and come back with exactly the same clap-trap.

What you don't seem to realise is that your behaviour in these matters has marked you out as a dishonest person and a dishonorable one.

You are actually much better than a shill posting on behalf of a poker room would be because your dishonest, foolish, posting tends to drive people away from any cause you might espouse.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:54 AM   #11806
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Again, you assume....makes you no different then a rigtard...
tk1133, prepending 'again' in front of your nonsensical posts is yet another example of you fundamental dishonesty.

It's a lame ploy to make it look as if the person to whom you are responding habitually makes the same mistake of which you are accusing him.

Of course, you fail in this ploy because:

1) Everyone knows you are a pathological liar who will post anything that comes into his head.

2) Even when you believe you are telling the truth your posts are so devoid of factual correctness, logic and common sense that they are worthless.

3) In most cases the person you are accusing has not even made the error of which you are accusing them.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:09 AM   #11807
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Today after 9 years I have changed my mind in the online rigged debate. I have been playing poker for close to a decade now and been a winning player for 8 years. I started playing at the indian casinos and reno when I was 18 and soon started online a few years later on Paradise Poker back in the early 2000's when you could not even find a nl game online. I still play almost everyday and binge from time to time. I have read all the books, seen all the videos, educated myself as much as possible to be a winning player and I understand just how bad and how long you can run bad. Ive played stakes from .25 .50 nl to 25.00 50.00 nl.

For many years I have supported that online poker is not rigged. I have been in multiple debates with players at the table and I have always supported that online poker is not rigged.

I explained to these players that there was no reason for the online poker rooms to be rigged. I explained to them that there is too much for them to risk. Why risk so much when they are already making a crapload of money? And ofcourse the argument of "you see a lot more hands" and ofcourse all the other points already mentioned in this thread.

Then reality set in. How could I be so foolish not to believe that online poker is not rigged? Ofcourse it is. Im not saying that every table you sit at is rigged, but surely it has gone on in the past and probally is now.

Have we not learned anything from the Absolute and Ultimate Bet scandal? And now we assume that those were just 2 solo incidents and that its never been done before or is not now, or will not be in the future? You could tell me that if I believe it to be rigged its for me to prove it. Well id say to you, when the UB and Absolute super users were scamming the high games some players like Matusow were pretty sure they were being cheated, but how to prove?

Do we not understand that Enron and AIG were already rich as **** before hell broke lose? They wanted more and more and cheated people and did whatever it took to make more money. And these are not isolated incidents, they are just the largest we currently know of.

Greed and the incentive to make more money even if you gotta cheat people and risk losing yours buisness/site is not unlikely and especially when you are out of country and subject to no laws of scamming people. The "why would they risk it, too much to lose" argument is no argument at all. Companies do it everyday for millions of dollars.

My point here is that its very likely to me that they're super users or sites that are tweaked or rigged in some sort. For a long time I didnt believe it. Why should I? I have been a winning player on every site I haver ever played on but one. And thats about 9 sites. But that doesnt mean I have not been getting fleeced.


Just imagine if a sites making about 50 cents a hand from rake. Lets say this comes out to him making 5 million a year. I promise you plenty of owners of a site would scam you in a second to double their income to 10 million a year. Whether it was done with super users or big hand generators or whatever.

So just cause im beating the games doesnt mean the rake hasnt taken tens of thousands of dollars from me in the last 8 years and it doesnt mean rigged poker sites havent as well.

Lastly if they're super users im sure they are usually right where most people are at the lower limits so they can blend in and not rape someone for thousands of dollars where it gets much serious attention as happened in the UB incident.

As the famous Armarillo Slim quote, you can sheer a ship many times but skin him only once.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:17 AM   #11808
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
Then delusion set in.
You are simply a rather poor player who managed to make some money when the whole poker scene was filled with players even poorer than yourself.

Now that the games have toughened you cannot win as much and, instead of taking personal responsibility for your own failure, you decide that you will libel the poker sites.

As you believe the sites are rigged can we assume you have stopped playing, now?

Or are you, like so many other rigtards, so ******ed that you keep playing even when you believe the game is rigged against you?
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:25 AM   #11809
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
You are simply a rather poor player who managed to make some money when the whole poker scene was filled with players even poorer than yourself.

Now that the games have toughened you cannot win and instead of taking personal responsibility for your own failure you decide that you will libel the poker sites.

As you believe the sites are rigged can we assume you have stopped playing, now?

Or are you, like so many other rigtards, so ******ed that you keep playing even when you believe the game is rigged against you?
There is no doubt the games have toughned up in the last 3 years. Your delusion is that I cannot win. I am still a winning player on every site I play at. And ofcourse everyone makes less money when more fish are gone.

However The point here is as long as I continue to make a profit im still going to play. Doesnt mean im not getting fleeced.

And for you the believe that online poker is not rigged time to time. Well, your just wrong cause we already have proof of that happening now dont we?

You really think with the many many many sites out there someone is not cheating? I think anyone who has played enough live poker has caught someone trying to cheat. And to think that some owners of a site wouldnt try to cheat gamblers out of money when they're no consquences, well thats just plain insanity.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:44 AM   #11810
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
You are simply a rather poor player who managed to make some money when the whole poker scene was filled with players even poorer than yourself.

Now that the games have toughened you cannot win as much and, instead of taking personal responsibility for your own failure, you decide that you will libel the poker sites.

As you believe the sites are rigged can we assume you have stopped playing, now?

Or are you, like so many other rigtards, so ******ed that you keep playing even when you believe the game is rigged against you?
BTW I never said all the sites are rigged and you should keep your childish insults to yourself.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:46 AM   #11811
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
Your delusion is that I cannot win.
You cannot win as much.

And you're looking to place the blame anywhere other than your own incompetence.

We've heard this so many times before from so many rigtards.

If you have any evidence of rigging please present it.

Otherwise you are just yet another lame player who will not take personal responsibility for his own inadequacies.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:26 AM   #11812
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokerProLv View Post
Well id say to you, when the UB and Absolute super users were scamming the high games some players like Matusow were pretty sure they were being cheated, but how to prove?
1) It was my understanding that Matusow never played in the games, because he has a contract with Full Tilt to only play on Full Tilt.

2) The cheating was proved by looking at the hand histories and analysing them.

The whole AP/UB situation is proof that when there is cheating, it can be proved using hand histories. The AP/UB situation is an example that undermines your point of view rather than supporting it.

Your comments are like someone claiming that the sky is red, and then showing a picture of a blue sky to prove their point of view. It makes no sense and fundamentally ruins your whole argument about the issue.

Quote:
Greed and the incentive to make more money even if you gotta cheat people and risk losing yours buisness/site is not unlikely and especially when you are out of country and subject to no laws of scamming people. The "why would they risk it, too much to lose" argument is no argument at all. Companies do it everyday for millions of dollars.
The fact that you believe this is a reflection on your own lack of morality and integrity, not a reflection on the honesty of online poker.

Quote:
As the famous Armarillo Slim quote, you can sheer a ship many times but skin him only once.
Mate, it was a "sheep" not a ship.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:37 AM   #11813
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Mate, it was a "sheep" not a ship.
You've really spoiled that for me.

I was having so much fun imagining some loser who'd already sheared a ship going back and trying to do it again.

What an idiot!

What was he thinking?
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:02 AM   #11814
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

His thinking process is not quite in sheep shape form yet.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:13 AM   #11815
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Rigtards are often like 2 sheep passing in the night.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:44 AM   #11816
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

What if one of them is a wolf in ship's clothing?
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:45 AM   #11817
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

That's it guys, jump on the man for what was an obvious typo. Sadly typical, and overly predictable.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:02 AM   #11818
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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That's it guys, jump on the man for what was an obvious typo. Sadly typical, and overly predictable.
More fun than breaking down his massive gaps in logical thinking, which are all very mundane and have been seen in this thread many, many times before.

He reached the max of his ability and this is the reaction to it, nothing more. He may just be the black ship of the family, nothing more.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:59 AM   #11819
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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He reached the max of his ability and this is the reaction to it, nothing more. He may just be the black ship of the family, nothing more.

I suspect his sheep has sailed.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:26 PM   #11820
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Sadly typical, and overly predictable.
What - rigged, you mean?
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:27 PM   #11821
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I dunno, Josem makes a 'sheep' joke and we all follow like ships.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:18 PM   #11822
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Counting ships before they're hatched.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:23 PM   #11823
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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That's it guys, jump on the man for what was an obvious typo. Sadly typical, and overly predictable.
I note that you only commented on the typo as well, and not the huge flaws that undermine your argument. You realise that the evidence that you provided - AP/UB situation - actually proves the opposite of your argument?

The AP/UB situation is the greatest example in online poker of cheaters being caught by the evidence: cheaters that you seem to think would be undetectable by evidence.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:31 PM   #11824
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Counting ships before they're hatched.
You can take a chicken to water but you can't make a crystal chandelier out of it.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:14 PM   #11825
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The Housemartins started all of this mess years ago with their songs

"I'll Sail This Sheep Alone"



as well as

"Ship"
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