Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2010, 07:48 PM   #11751
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by MostlyBS View Post
Is tournament poker rigged? Has there been any analysis done on tournament hand histories?
If it were, how would the site benefit with the rake paid up front?
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 08:03 PM   #11752
LVGambler
banned
 
LVGambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EXIT42O
Posts: 4,884
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quicker tournies = more fees?? Not that I think that. Just sayin. That's a hard(er) one. But then again, on the flip side of that, wouldn't sites "kick out" players who are just getting blinded out? That would speed things up n they don't do that (from what I remember).
LVGambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 08:25 PM   #11753
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVGambler View Post
Quicker tournies = more fees?? Not that I think that. Just sayin.
Turbo. Super Turbo. Very popular. The mix of games and structures offered makes it easy for the site to maximize the rate of tourney fees paid.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 08:30 PM   #11754
smithcommajohn
grinder
 
smithcommajohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: acceptance
Posts: 533
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Turbo. Super Turbo. Very popular. The mix of games and structures offered makes it easy for the site to maximize the rate of tourney fees paid.
I think most sites offer reduced fees for the turbos, as well. I wonder how that is factored into the "rigged" theory.

Last edited by smithcommajohn; 01-09-2010 at 08:33 PM. Reason: fixed tense
smithcommajohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 08:35 PM   #11755
MostlyBS
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 886
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Turbo. Super Turbo. Very popular. The mix of games and structures offered makes it easy for the site to maximize the rate of tourney fees paid.
True, but if a player is playing in a tourny already, that player is no longer generating revenue. The only way to generate more revenue from that player is for him/her to register for another tourny. The fast way that can happen is to bust out as many players in a tourny as fast as possible.
MostlyBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 10:26 PM   #11756
Josem
human chemical weapon
 
Josem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 17,957
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoMoos View Post
Online sites could do a lot more by providing tools to players that allow them to analyze their play and distribution of hands. It should be easy to tell a player "you've played 14000 hands, you've had AA 53 times, you've been in 200 showdowns and won 43% of the time." Most players don't the time or tools to thoroughly analyze all the hand history.
PokerStars already does this for the last 6 weeks of your hands.
Josem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 10:34 PM   #11757
Arouet
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Arouet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,433
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by MostlyBS View Post
True, but if a player is playing in a tourny already, that player is no longer generating revenue. The only way to generate more revenue from that player is for him/her to register for another tourny. The fast way that can happen is to bust out as many players in a tourny as fast as possible.
But won't that just discourage new players frustrated at busting out early? Maybe they let bad players win more so that they last longer in the tournament, feel their getting their money's worth, and continue playing rather than quitting.
Arouet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:12 PM   #11758
smithcommajohn
grinder
 
smithcommajohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: acceptance
Posts: 533
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
PokerStars already does this for the last 6 weeks of your hands.
Wait... what? How do you view this information?
smithcommajohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:14 PM   #11759
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Have we decided yet whether it's rigged?
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:16 PM   #11760
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
There's a possibility that the entire run of Star Wars is an accurate, historical, portrayal of events somewhere in the universe.
Wait. What? Are you implying that Stars Wars is not based on historical evidence?
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:17 PM   #11761
Marquoz
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 598
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rek View Post
Have we decided yet whether it's rigged?
Of course! Most people have decided "no", some have decided "yes", and almost none of them are ever going to change their minds.
Marquoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:20 PM   #11762
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquoz View Post
Of course! Most people have decided "no", some have decided "yes", and almost none of them are ever going to change their minds.
Are you sure?
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:21 PM   #11763
Marquoz
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 598
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rek View Post
Are you sure?
Maaaaybe.
Marquoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:46 PM   #11764
chase daniels
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mizzou
Posts: 1
Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theb00radley View Post
Practice and a commitment to improving does not guarantee results. I've been playing and working on my game for 2 years now but success still eludes me. I consider myself to have a good analytical mind and will usually achieve some measure of success at whatever I apply myself to, but it's just not happening in poker. I understand how people focus on their bad beats and don't remember the suckouts, but after constant analysis of my game i'm pretty sure my luck has not come close to evening out in those 2 years and 100,000+ hands.

I understand how the OP feels, but rather than believing the game is rigged I just believe that even over the long term luck does not even out, and some people are just luckier than others.
This
chase daniels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:48 PM   #11765
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Turbo. Super Turbo. Very popular. The mix of games and structures offered makes it easy for the site to maximize the rate of tourney fees paid.
Not if players dont want to play turbo. This would be a way to give the sites benefit of having everyone play turbo even though they think they are playing a longer structure.

Also, rigged these tournaments might push certain personality types into tilt mode which in a lot of cases would have them rebuying more.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:48 PM   #11766
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I just bust out with a flopped full house against Ace-high donk villain, get all-in. No ace on the board. Turn puts trips on the board. River puts quads on the board. Ace-high is now the nuts. I lose.

Rigged.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:53 PM   #11767
Marquoz
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 598
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
I just bust out with a flopped top full house against Ace-high villain, get all-in. No ace on the board. Turn puts trips the board. River puts quads on the board. Ace-high is now the nuts. I lose.

Rigged.
Bah, I can beat that. I call an EP raise to 4BB on the button with pocket fours. Flop comes K44, giving me quads. The PF raiser bets, I raise, he pushes, and I call (pot ~200BB). He turns over AA. Turn is an ace, river is an ace, my quads lose to runner-runner better quads. I lose despite being a 99.9% favorite.

Still not rigged.
Marquoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 11:53 PM   #11768
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,035
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I ventured into some more Omaha hi/lo MTTs recently, playing a 3$ or $4 freezeout one the other day. Nearly 4 hours later I reached the cash bubble. For $7.

One of you donks play Omaha hi lo for 4 hours to make $3 and then tell me they rig tournaments to run faster. Wish it was rigged against me in that way...

Seriously, all of your made up stuff are variations of superbots and Lizard People so why not go with them, they are sexier than saying they create turbos to confuse people who are in regular tournaments from knowing they are in turbos. They even make the starting stacks double (3000 instead of 1500) in a ton of those to make it even more difficult to catch. Or something.

4 hours for $3. Seriously. Think about it. I'm still in recovery from wasting one of my tables in that way.

All the best.


P.S. Those who think it is rigged to help bad players win, just search and watch this guy in action. Well, that is if action means never betting and never folding. Ever.

http://www.pokerprolabs.com/bodunk69/pokerstars.aspx

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...7CF53.html?t=2

Last edited by Monteroy; 01-09-2010 at 11:59 PM.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 12:03 AM   #11769
Arouet
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Arouet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,433
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
I ventured into some more Omaha hi/lo MTTs recently, playing a 3$ or $4 freezeout one the other day. Nearly 4 hours later I reached the cash bubble. For $7.

One of you donks play Omaha hi lo for 4 hours to make $3 and then tell me they rig tournaments to run faster. Wish it was rigged against me in that way...

Seriously, all of your made up stuff are variations of superbots and Lizard People so why not go with them, they are sexier than saying they create turbos to confuse people who are in regular tournaments from knowing they are in turbos. They even make the starting stacks double (3000 instead of 1500) in a ton of those to make it even more difficult to catch. Or something.

4 hours for $3. Seriously. Think about it. I'm still in recovery from wasting one of my tables in that way.

All the best.


P.S. Those who think it is rigged to help bad players win, just search and watch this guy in action. Well, that is if action means never betting and never folding. Ever.

http://www.pokerprolabs.com/bodunk69/pokerstars.aspx

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...7CF53.html?t=2
Sounds like my theory a few posts up is spot on: don't you feel encouraged by running deep, it makes you more likely to keep playing right? Next time you could win!
Arouet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 12:09 AM   #11770
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquoz View Post
Bah, I can beat that. I call an EP raise to 4BB on the button with pocket fours. Flop comes K44, giving me quads. The PF raiser bets, I raise, he pushes, and I call (pot ~200BB). He turns over AA. Turn is an ace, river is an ace, my quads lose to runner-runner better quads. I lose despite being a 99.9% favorite.

Still not rigged.
Well, if it happens a few more times in the next few weeks than you might have some proof that online poker is rigged. For now, without proof, you just got really, really, really unlucky...

I hope someone does a study on tournaments and sit n go's. If the programming is being manipulated, one of the math geniuses is going to figure it out. That is...if anyone is going to want to spend time on this. Thanks to Spade for spending his time on the cash game study.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 12:14 AM   #11771
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
I just bust out with a flopped full house against Ace-high donk villain, get all-in. No ace on the board. Turn puts trips on the board. River puts quads on the board. Ace-high is now the nuts. I lose.

Rigged.
Did you piss Josem off? I think he may have flipped the big red doomswitch on you...LOL!

My condolences on the nasty beat though...seriously. No sarcasm intended.

Last edited by DonkoTheClown; 01-10-2010 at 12:27 AM.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 12:24 AM   #11772
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Sounds like my theory a few posts up is spot on: don't you feel encouraged by running deep, it makes you more likely to keep playing right? Next time you could win!
You could have a program that profiles players by skill level and tilt factor. You could use past depositing history and other bits of information like that to put the right squeeze on players to maximize profits out of them. So one player might run deep and win $3 and another might bust out early and go on a depositing frenzy.

When I was in sales, selling music equipment, we could predict a customers purchasing patterns and build custom approaches to getting them back in the store to buy another guitar or amp. There were some really sick people using their credit cards to a point of bankruptcy. I am not proud of that in my past and have left that field even though I was top sales guy most months.

My point is that most of the rigged theories are way too simple and would be figured out by someone with HEM or PT. If something is going on, it is going to be put together by some very smart people, probably smarter than anyone on this thread. Getting someone with that kind of talent to check all of this out for free is never going to happen and that could very well be why it hasnt been figured out.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 02:20 AM   #11773
MostlyBS
adept
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 886
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rek View Post
Have we decided yet whether it's rigged?
The conclusion is it's rigged if I lose and it's not if i win.

/Thread
MostlyBS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 03:37 AM   #11774
quadmaster
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 43
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I would like to see government based agencies perform an analysis on the poker site's RNG and application code. Not some auditor hired by the poker site. Of course any rigging system would ensure that the overall odds come out to the expected percentages. The poker site would be stupid if their method could be detected by such a simple audit.

An independant audit of the code (not the results) by a trusted government agency is the only way to put this debate to rest.
quadmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 04:21 AM   #11775
Alternativ
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 100
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by quadmaster View Post
I would like to see government based agencies perform an analysis on the poker site's RNG and application code. Not some auditor hired by the poker site. Of course any rigging system would ensure that the overall odds come out to the expected percentages. The poker site would be stupid if their method could be detected by such a simple audit.

An independant audit of the code (not the results) by a trusted government agency is the only way to put this debate to rest.
Dude, you can't trust the government, they are behind all this!
Alternativ is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive