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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-07-2010, 05:37 AM   #11676
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Some of you are kind of missing the point. It doesn't matter if a poker site uses a true RNG that works properly, or draws cards out of a hat, or flips coins to know which button to push. All that matters is the output. Either the deck comes out randomly or it doesn't, and that is observable and measurable by players. A random process means no predictable or repeating patterns, and a normal distribution over the long run. The expected closeness to normal is proportional to sample size in known ratios (like SD= sqrt(npq))
But what about timing?
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:12 AM   #11677
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

And entropy effects?
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:55 AM   #11678
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I don't think "Online Poker is rigged", but I really hope it is rigged, so that mean I can win much more when it get fixed soon or later.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:58 AM   #11679
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Cat+Cat View Post
I don't think "Online Poker is rigged", but I really hope it is rigged, so that mean I can win much more when it get fixed soon or later.
Unless, of course, it is currently rigged in your favour.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:39 AM   #11680
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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But what about timing?

Patterns that are invisible to computer analysis but seen by keen observers.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:43 AM   #11681
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Patterns that are invisible to computer analysis but seen by keen observers.
My, there are a lot of ways to spell 'rigtard'!
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:42 AM   #11682
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Online sites could do a lot more by providing tools to players that allow them to analyze their play and distribution of hands. It should be easy to tell a player "you've played 14000 hands, you've had AA 53 times, you've been in 200 showdowns and won 43% of the time." Most players don't the time or tools to thoroughly analyze all the hand history.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:29 PM   #11683
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

^ But they have the time to bullsht endlessly on forums, RIGHT?!
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:45 PM   #11684
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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^ But they have the time to bullsht endlessly on forums, RIGHT?!
Yeah, but you don't need any maths skills to whine and ***** on 2+2!
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:21 PM   #11685
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by TwoMoos View Post
Online sites could do a lot more by providing tools to players that allow them to analyze their play and distribution of hands. It should be easy to tell a player "you've played 14000 hands, you've had AA 53 times, you've been in 200 showdowns and won 43% of the time." Most players don't the time or tools to thoroughly analyze all the hand history.

I actually agree with this idea completely though for slightly different reasons than pure riggedology paranoia (which is a component).

Reality is people have fun looking over these types of stats even if they do not have the software (or the general inclination) which allows them to do so.

It can be very simple stuff, like frequency of generic hands AKo , AKs 66 etc, and some simple preflop all in statistics with each hand, even if it is just a total of 100 all ins with AQ 64-36 record without any indication of the hands it was against.

The drawback is that fish may learn the power of hands like A6o they consider the nuts when they see how badly they do, but allowing a player to see a nice chart of their all ins and frequency of various hands would be very entertaining.

Note, it would do nothing against hard core riggedologists, as they can easily say that Stars makes up the data, or superbots still win, or Lizard People are involved, but for a casual player this type of information would add a bit more "fun value" and it would not surprise me to see Stars or other leading sites work on this type of pop up feature in the future.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:44 PM   #11686
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Yeah, but you don't need any maths skills to whine and ***** on 2+2!
LOL Endless bitching and whining is easy, math is hard.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:15 PM   #11687
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I have a technical question, true question.

Lets say I have a 1 Billion database and in that base I see that the frequency I make a Flush from flop to turn is right (about 1:4). But how could I know that in the initial 200K hands I didnt make the FD in the turn in tyhe right expected frequency?

Trying to make it clear:

Lets say I make a coin flip 1 billion time, and in the end the flip is 50% for each side.
But If I take the first 200K hands I see that the coin turned the same face everytime (100%).

If I take the 1 billion pool its all right.

But If i take the first 200K pool its way abnormal!

This is the timing argument I think.

Please dont come with lizard people, its a true question.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:20 PM   #11688
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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My, there are a lot of ways to spell 'rigtard'!
lol, awesome.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:28 PM   #11689
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
I have a technical question, true question.

Lets say I have a 1 Billion database and in that base I see that the frequency I make a Flush from flop to turn is right (about 1:4). But how could I know that in the initial 200K hands I didnt make the FD in the turn in tyhe right expected frequency?

Trying to make it clear:

Lets say I make a coin flip 1 billion time, and in the end the flip is 50% for each side.
But If I take the first 200K hands I see that the coin turned the same face everytime (100%).

If I take the 1 billion pool its all right.

But If i take the first 200K pool its way abnormal!

This is the timing argument I think.

Please dont come with lizard people, its a true question.
I'm not a stats person but I believe that a 50% shot should approach 50% much sooner than 1 billion hands. This is why sample size is important. Its also why you can't say after 3 flips that if it resulted in HHH that something is wrong.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:37 PM   #11690
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Biggle10 View Post
I'm not a stats person but I believe that a 50% shot should approach 50% much sooner than 1 billion hands. This is why sample size is important. Its also why you can't say after 3 flips that if it resulted in HHH that something is wrong.
I see what you meant but Im talking about a huge sample size.

If you take a 1 bilion pool and see thats everything is alright you could have missed the 200K first part of that pool. 200K is not the same as 10 coin flips.

Last edited by toltec444; 01-07-2010 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:42 PM   #11691
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Wow, I just thought of this. People ONLY complain about online poker being rigged because they LOSE! If you're so smart, and you're such a keen observer that notices patterns that the rest of us mortals wouldn't dream of " seeing", then why the hell don't you predict hitting a flush? Why don't you use your keen sense of the RNG's predictability and go all in on the flop with a gut shot? Or have people already started being that smart, because we all know how many times things like that have happened to us.

If it was rigged, would Phil Ivey know? I saw him get sucked out a little while ago for 150k against Izzy, AA against JJ and Izzy rivered a straight. Does he think it's rigged? If we lose because people WANT us to lose so they rig it that way, would they want Phil Ivey to lose? What do they gain when Phil Ivey loses? What if he goes broke? The truth is, there's a whole lot of delusional douchebaggery going on in this thread and it's borderline insane. You could all of forms of a psychosis for thinking that an authentic corporation approved by the authorities that govern us would literally STEAL people's money.

I know that our world is ****ed up, and that government's are hardly ever truthful, and that all wars in history are promoted by war propaganda to win over the average simpleton. When people used to be conscripted to go to war I bet the governments of the world never predicted that in the year 2010 many people would actually WANT to fight for their "nation"( IMHO, it's just a piece of land like any other on this earth in this infinitely large universe and I think people that take pride in their country are stupid), and they'd be happy to. I know that the federal reserve creates recessions on purpose and that the world seems like it's heading towards what is predicted in all of the dystopian novels we read, but above all....Poker isn't rigged, and the reason people lose, is because, they're people. They're normal, human beings with emotions, hope, and other forms of delusional entitlement. Go to the BBV and look at the people who have won large sums of money. Did the poker industry single these people out and decide, " hmmm, we're gonna make this guy a winner." No. If you've played as many hands as these guys have, you'd have very close to the same variance.
Basically the reason people lose is either because they're too stupid or they don't have the emotional control and have to undergo a form of catharsis to purge their anger after improbable losses.

Good Day.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:45 PM   #11692
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Again: lets say I throw a coin into the air 1 billion times and it comes that the coin flipped 50% each side.

But if I take the first 500K coin flips it turned the same side! And the other 500K the other side.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:50 PM   #11693
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I understand what you're saying. You say they time it so that it evens out in the end, but in such a way that you end up losing. Again, douche baggery. You do know that if online poker was rigged, it would have been proven by now. Do you not think that there are people with the knowledge in the field of statistics to prove that? If so then you are claiming that the people at Full Tilt have access to knowledge that no-one else in the human race has. Now you're just being silly.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:58 PM   #11694
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

In the face of what I posted before the only way to have a trusted sample analisys is to make it every 1K hands separated taking into account the time sequence.

After that you have to make a @k hand analisys taking into account the time sequence.
After that 3K 4K and you see thats going to inifinte and no one can do that.



The timing argument is very difficult to refute.

Really.....Im very satisfied with inline poker.
Im not a riggedologist. But the timing argument is very difficult to refute and to detect.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:03 AM   #11695
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Sounds a lot like God in my opinion, another invention of the human mind. Stop being silly.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:05 AM   #11696
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Sounds a lot like God in my opinion, another invention of the human mind. Stop being silly.

If you are talking about my post FU!
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:05 AM   #11697
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Well since x event happened so close to y event and x + y created z event then it MUST have been influenced by an external force! Again, luck in our lives that is misinterpreted. Randomly influenced outcomes are bound to have anomalies, don't make the same mistake Indians made and try to explain anomalies in our universe with some stupid invention.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:07 AM   #11698
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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If you are talking about my post FU!
I wasn't, do you honestly think I've had time to read through this thread? Jesus, stop being insecure. If you're going to be Christian at least try and defend it with your usual garbage. I'm making the assumption that you believe in god and the post you're referring to has something to do with some divine intervention theory.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:08 AM   #11699
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by kaner333 View Post
I understand what you're saying. You say they time it so that it evens out in the end, but in such a way that you end up losing. Again, douche baggery. You do know that if online poker was rigged, it would have been proven by now. Do you not think that there are people with the knowledge in the field of statistics to prove that? If so then you are claiming that the people at Full Tilt have access to knowledge that no-one else in the human race has. Now you're just being silly.

Im not saying that you lose!!!!!
Idiot...I win!!!!!!


Ive been playing online poker for 2 years and I win!!!!!!!


Im talking about manipulation........


Why would the poker rooms want you to lose, they want you to win!!!!!!!

Wake up!!!!!!
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:09 AM   #11700
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I wasn't, do you honestly think I've had time to read through this thread? Jesus, stop being insecure. If you're going to be Christian at least try and defend it with your usual garbage. I'm making the assumption that you believe in god and the post you're referring to has something to do with some divine intervention theory.
BS
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