Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9859. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2010, 11:40 PM   #11626
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Could my post have been answered simply by voting in the poll? This isn't a tough concept. Listen, I don't care what you post in this thread, (this thread isn't exactly full of deep thinking), but simply saying "yes or no" in a post is pretty redundant since you could just, you know, vote.

Anyway, carry on.
LOL! +1
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 11:41 PM   #11627
KingOfFelt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
KingOfFelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Coast
Posts: 7,233
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoMoos View Post
Now I can agree with this. In fact, corruption is so much a part of human behavior, it makes me wonder how online poker has so many vociferous defenders.
Because all of the evidence points to the deal not being rigged? Pretty good reason imo.
KingOfFelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 11:44 PM   #11628
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Could my post have been answered simply by voting in the poll? This isn't a tough concept. Listen, I don't care what you post in this thread, (this thread isn't exactly full of deep thinking), but simply saying "yes or no" in a post is pretty redundant since you could just, you know, vote.

Anyway, carry on.
I guess he just wanted to vote twice.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 11:45 PM   #11629
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyonkemp View Post
No sites would be so stupid to rigg their rng in a way which could be shown at normal hand analysis and statistics. What you need to look at is players winnings deposits withdraws and activity and I believe time matters as well.
Those two statements are not independent. Any manipulation changes the statistics no matter what criteria are used.

Quote:
But think about it. Why wouldnt a million dollar company improve their profit with lets say 10% and only a risk of 99,5% not getting caught.
I've made a similar prop bet in this thread several times before. If you can describe a plausible scheme where a site can increase their rake by 10%, in a way that is not obviously and easily detectable in available hand history databases, and is not clearly debunked by posters in this thread, I'll transfer you $100 on Stars or FT. Your scheme must show the math. You don't have to put up any money to accept the challenge.

If you search this thread, you will find this thought experiement has been done many times. A 10% increase in rake by deal manipulation is very unlikely if not impossible without a grossly obvious statistical bias in hand histories.

PS - we're not talking "a million dollar company" here. The top few sites are multi-Billion dollar companies, with huge fortunes at risk. They have boards of directors, stockholders, and dozens of executives who would have to be in on it. A rogue owner running a little "million dollar company" out of a storefront in Costa Rica could do it. A major poker site is an entirely different animal.

Last edited by spadebidder; 01-04-2010 at 11:55 PM.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 11:51 PM   #11630
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Why is Isle of Man worse than US oversight in your opinion? Please be specific or else you'll be a confirmed xenophobe in my mind. I agree that regulation in the USA would be a good thing, but more because it would make it a lot easier to deposit for American players.

The USA isn't some magic land where corruption doesn't exist. In fact some would argue corruption is more rampant in the US than many other places.
I live in the United States and I think it is probably the worst. Almost every single client I am helping with mortgage problems started with a crooked broker and appraiser at the closing table. This is just a small slice of what has been happening here in this spoiled rotten country. We are now experiencing the ***** slap of Karma...too bad some innocent people are getting caught up in it also.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:08 AM   #11631
Bobo Fett
Carpe Diem
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 52,350
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyonkemp View Post
But think about it. Why wouldnt a million dollar company improve their profit with lets say 10% and only a risk of 99,5% not getting caught. They operate in a place where nobody is really checking if their actual systems works fair ans sqaure. They have every reason and oppurtunity to do it. Its -ev to not do it lol.
I assume you meant 0.5% chance of being caught rather than 99.5%.

These are numbers you're just pulling out of thin air, of course, but let's run with them for a minute. If it were my company and I had no morals, I'd still turn that down. 99.5% chance of getting away with 10% extra profit doesn't sound that attractive to me. Especially when the range of outcomes have to include being put out of business.

On top of that, although a lot of you like to think otherwise, some companies do actually have moral standards. I couldn't tell you with any certainty which online poker sites do or don't, I'm just saying there's a non-zero chance that some sites wouldn't cheat their customers even if there was virtually no way of being caught.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:28 AM   #11632
fly2me
stranger
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

depend what site you play.. i dont think poker is rigged at all..its just randob...sometime i think for some pokerpro on fulltilt is rigged because maybe algorithem made that way they have more chance of winning..
fly2me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:33 AM   #11633
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by fly2me View Post
i dont think poker is rigged at all..its just randob

...

i think for some pokerpro on fulltilt is rigged because maybe algorithem made that way they have more chance of winning
A) This is a logic test. Which of these statements is false?
B) It's Monty's new gimmick.
C) I don't want to be insulting again today.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:33 AM   #11634
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by fly2me View Post
depend what site you play.. i dont think poker is rigged at all..its just randob...sometime i think for some pokerpro on fulltilt is rigged because maybe algorithem made that way they have more chance of winning..
So you just said not rigged and then yes rigged in one breath? SOOOO....HUH?
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 12:36 AM   #11635
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
A) This is a logic test. Which of these statements is false?
B) It's Monty's new gimmick.
C) I don't want to be insulting again today.
Monty Roy's new gimmick account? LOL!
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:04 AM   #11636
Poker_whiz
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I, in fact, the number (percent) does not preclude what might be right. However, this method does not appear (My bad points. Rig is part of poker, there is a secret.)

Because it is pointing at what time I have, these hand Timing of the game and run the field events, and enjoy several advantages to win some pots and entertainment are guaranteed to get players who are not "bad" opportunity to offer players. After all ... It is very interesting poker online. They refer to the flip-flop, each player uses, such as program planning easier Poker flop patterns depending on the amount bet in certain situations, the hands are exactly the area of "certain conditions that these" do the same for create an action.

Example: You can make your own analysis of the theory and the opportunity to take advantage of you. Please examine funding profile table. In the next three or four times the detail of the original buy in was to see how many players you can not ... in most cases, you can not get everything. The table is the money you get to share a portion is distributed worldwide. Finally, the players, again, continuing the cycle begins when you purchase chip stack get moving. However, this point. Hands live action, the detailed steps that online gaming is no doubt in my mind. This is clearly a player button due to the waiting call from the flop, turn and see the river - but I have some process that is, these cards, it is considered that this effect will be distributed stimulation. Not only with effective results. Online poker secret foreign agenda, can tell the truth a little knowledge of business for everyone.

They have the money to see as many as possible - not all business. Is to restrict the search to move away from each table in the source of cash income in these regions. Is this failure, most people pay to see the change, the river and looking for more information. He is this - how many people said that our hands (profit) or you can search for the best. His mind can see.
Poker_whiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:09 AM   #11637
Rounding4Rent
journeyman
 
Rounding4Rent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 234
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

poker whiz ^, some of the things you just said almost read exactly as to what i wrote on my theory of "timing"..

Last edited by Mike Haven; 01-05-2010 at 01:41 PM.
Rounding4Rent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:21 AM   #11638
TwoMoos
adept
 
TwoMoos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Uncertainty
Posts: 1,090
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Two single table sngs in a row, I get knocked out with AJ vs KQ in the 41st hand.

Next time I catch AJ in the 41st hand, I'm folding!
TwoMoos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:33 AM   #11639
icancount2one
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: DO WORK
Posts: 895
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker_whiz View Post
I, in fact, the number (percent) does not preclude what might be right. However, this method does not appear (My bad points. Rig is part of poker, there is a secret.)

Because it is pointing at what time I have, these hand Timing of the game and run the field events, and enjoy several advantages to win some pots and entertainment are guaranteed to get players who are not "bad" opportunity to offer players. After all ... It is very interesting poker online. They refer to the flip-flop, each player uses, such as program planning easier Poker flop patterns depending on the amount bet in certain situations, the hands are exactly the area of "certain conditions that these" do the same for create an action.

Example: You can make your own analysis of the theory and the opportunity to take advantage of you. Please examine funding profile table. In the next three or four times the detail of the original buy in was to see how many players you can not ... in most cases, you can not get everything. The table is the money you get to share a portion is distributed worldwide. Finally, the players, again, continuing the cycle begins when you purchase chip stack get moving. However, this point. Hands live action, the detailed steps that online gaming is no doubt in my mind. This is clearly a player button due to the waiting call from the flop, turn and see the river - but I have some process that is, these cards, it is considered that this effect will be distributed stimulation. Not only with effective results. Online poker secret foreign agenda, can tell the truth a little knowledge of business for everyone.

They have the money to see as many as possible - not all business. Is to restrict the search to move away from each table in the source of cash income in these regions. Is this failure, most people pay to see the change, the river and looking for more information. He is this - how many people said that our hands (profit) or you can search for the best. His mind can see.
This seems to be a representative sample of the average intelligence of the "poker is rigged' community.
icancount2one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:35 AM   #11640
KingOfFelt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
KingOfFelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Coast
Posts: 7,233
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker_whiz View Post
I, in fact, the number (percent) does not preclude what might be right. However, this method does not appear (My bad points. Rig is part of poker, there is a secret.)

Because it is pointing at what time I have, these hand Timing of the game and run the field events, and enjoy several advantages to win some pots and entertainment are guaranteed to get players who are not "bad" opportunity to offer players. After all ... It is very interesting poker online. They refer to the flip-flop, each player uses, such as program planning easier Poker flop patterns depending on the amount bet in certain situations, the hands are exactly the area of "certain conditions that these" do the same for create an action.

Example: You can make your own analysis of the theory and the opportunity to take advantage of you. Please examine funding profile table. In the next three or four times the detail of the original buy in was to see how many players you can not ... in most cases, you can not get everything. The table is the money you get to share a portion is distributed worldwide. Finally, the players, again, continuing the cycle begins when you purchase chip stack get moving. However, this point. Hands live action, the detailed steps that online gaming is no doubt in my mind. This is clearly a player button due to the waiting call from the flop, turn and see the river - but I have some process that is, these cards, it is considered that this effect will be distributed stimulation. Not only with effective results. Online poker secret foreign agenda, can tell the truth a little knowledge of business for everyone.

They have the money to see as many as possible - not all business. Is to restrict the search to move away from each table in the source of cash income in these regions. Is this failure, most people pay to see the change, the river and looking for more information. He is this - how many people said that our hands (profit) or you can search for the best. His mind can see.
LEVEL

+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
poker whiz ^, some of the things you just said almost read exactly as to what i wrote on my theory of "timing"..
NOT A LEVEL

=HILARITY

Last edited by Mike Haven; 01-05-2010 at 01:41 PM.
KingOfFelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 05:23 AM   #11641
Bobo Fett
Carpe Diem
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 52,350
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
LEVEL

+

NOT A LEVEL

=HILARITY
LOL, it's true. Probably the first time these two have been in total agreement ITT.

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 01-05-2010 at 05:24 AM. Reason: And don't bother asking; I'm not telling who it is. Except that it's not me.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 08:13 AM   #11642
Poker_whiz
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 26
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
poker whiz ^, some of the things you just said almost read exactly as to what i wrote on my theory of "timing"..
Are you forgive my English is so good. You and I, online poker has been very successful, please refer to the Information Theory. There Stephen (poker enthusiast) - were also mentioned such. Furthermore, I do Agree with him? This very good and true theory.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 01-05-2010 at 01:43 PM.
Poker_whiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 08:45 AM   #11643
arcticbeatle
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: I don't quite know
Posts: 676
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Lol
arcticbeatle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 08:54 AM   #11644
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Yeah, I was starting to reply, then I thought this is probably QPW or Monty...
Not me. I've been away for a while.

Does look like a joke, though.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:07 AM   #11645
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,056
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I guess "you are a gimmick" is the new "you are a shill."

The admins here can do some fancy IP retina check or whatever to confirm whether it was anyone's gimmick. I already stated I tried that once months ago and gave up once I saw even the wildest claims by unknowns get openly embraced by riggedologists. I just stick to direct posting now, though this thread is getting very stale. Hopefully spade's study when completely final will help create some new super paranoid theories (plus the data will be interesting to review from a more sane perspective).
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:23 AM   #11646
toltec444
grinder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 496
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

is the spade study coming before 2020?
toltec444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:26 PM   #11647
LVGambler
banned
 
LVGambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EXIT42O
Posts: 4,884
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Which will drop first? Dr Dre's [official] Detox album or spadebidder's [finished] analysis??

the mystery continues..
LVGambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 02:11 PM   #11648
Rounding4Rent
journeyman
 
Rounding4Rent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 234
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Eminem: Refill ^
Rounding4Rent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 03:52 PM   #11649
Arouet
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Arouet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,433
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVGambler View Post
Which will drop first? Dr Dre's [official] Detox album or spadebidder's [finished] analysis??

the mystery continues..
Spade has posted his site ITT and what he's put up so far is pretty impressive. He's clearly put a lot of work into this so maybe give his a break?
Arouet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 05:26 PM   #11650
fanapathy
Outside the Box
 
fanapathy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: dilarang tandas
Posts: 2,760
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Riggedfeeling stems from early on when you have flopped a flush, it gets all in, you celebrate..he just has an overpair. Turn, river comes, you're fistpumping...but wait, chips go in wrong direction and you go like WTFHAPPENILOSE?

Then you bring up hand history and see somebody caught a runner runner full house

From this point on you start looking for any way you can possibly lose a hand. You flop great but know what runner-outs might come right away. So it feels like you know it's coming because it's the first you think in the back of your mind. You notice this every time it happens, which is often if you play a decent amount, and forget when nothing happens. This also happens a few times in a row if you play somewhat. Rigged
fanapathy is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive