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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-04-2010, 05:51 PM   #11601
DonkoTheClown
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Yeesh, I thought I had you on ignore, no idea why your standard angry xenophobic post showed up.

How about this - even if the sites are run by evil fatcats twirling their oily mustaches chanting "MUHAHAHA," the reality is that eventually stats freaks like spade or Josem would eventually catch any wrong doings.

So let's pretend we are living in your bile hate filled world where they have nothing to fear at all, even a loss of business (as UB/AP suffered), the reality is they would still get caught, just like the super users were caught.

Let's also pretend that even if someone talked that there is no way to magically look at the servers anyway. Reality is if someone credible DID talk and had proof of what and how the game was rigged that in and by itself would be very compelling even if we never physically saw the servers which seems to be your bizarre magic solution.

Your hate filled world view is flawed because even if we buy into your assumption that evil can be done without consequences, the reality is the evil would still be discovered. Thusfar it has not in any meaningful manner.

Here are some mustaches to consider

http://images.google.ca/images?clien...ed=0CBoQsAQwAA




Eventually you and others will have to decide whether to trust an angry losing micro stakes player who's motives are based on hating native Americans or a math guy doing a ton of valid statistical analysis with no actual agenda.

All the best.
LOL! You are getting too good at this. Are you multi tabling "Is Poker Rigged" threads like you do the poker tables? That is some great multi tasking Monty. (Love the new nickname by the way-Monty Roy-"Lets Rig a Deal!" lololol)
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:06 PM   #11602
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by banonlinepoker View Post
Bring the servers and entire site workings to Nevada and let the NGC ovesee them. Until then you can't trust the integrity of the games.
You are pretty naïve. The big casino operators bring in most of the tax money that pays for everything in the state, including NGC salaries. They aren't that worried about what some state bureacrat tells them to do. The casino operators run an honest game because it's best for business, and they make more money that way. Same thing online. If you don't think the stockholders and executives of Absolute/UB wish they could take Hamilton out and shoot him (maybe not literally) for the damage he did by cheating, then you are also stupid.

Last edited by spadebidder; 01-04-2010 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:10 PM   #11603
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

not rigged
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:26 PM   #11604
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
You are pretty naïve. The big casino operators bring in most of the tax money that pays for everything in the state, including NGC salaries. They aren't that worried about what some state bureacrat tells them to do. The casino operators run an honest game because it's best for business, and they make more money that way. Same thing online. If you don't think the stockholders and executives of Absolute/UB wish they could take Hamilton out and shoot him for the damage he did by cheating, then you are also stupid.
Allegedly run an honest game. A friend of mine, an ex dealer, an older guy I play poker with used to room with a card mechanic when he was living in Vegas. This guy would get a call and show up to different properties to deal blackjack. His job was to accelerate the bottom line in the blackjack pits. He did this by manipulating the deal. I think this was happening back in the 80's and the 90's.
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:30 PM   #11605
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SomethingFishy View Post
not rigged
The voting is at the top of the page. This part of the page is set up for discussion about whether or not poker is rigged.

Do you have any proof that poker is rigged or not rigged?
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Old 01-04-2010, 06:40 PM   #11606
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Allegedly run an honest game. A friend of mine, an ex dealer, an older guy I play poker with used to room with a card mechanic when he was living in Vegas. This guy would get a call and show up to different properties to deal blackjack. His job was to accelerate the bottom line in the blackjack pits. He did this by manipulating the deal. I think this was happening back in the 80's and the 90's.
It's probably true, but I'd bet it was only at small off-strip gambling rooms (or most likely, underground unlicensed clubs) and never at any major resort casino in the past 25 years or more. The same risks apply at fly-by-night online sites.

Last edited by spadebidder; 01-04-2010 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:05 PM   #11607
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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
It's probably true, but I'd bet it was only at small off-strip gambling rooms and never at any major resort casino. The same risks apply at fly-by-night online sites.
Probably so, I will have to ask him next time I see him. I got the feeling that this was some of the downtown properties and maybe some of the fringe properites.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:08 PM   #11608
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Probably so, I will have to ask him next time I see him. I got the feeling that this was some of the downtown properties and maybe some of the fringe properites.
You'll notice I edited my post to say in the past 25 years, meaning back in the mob days I'm sure these things happened. Probably been longer than that for any big casino.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:20 PM   #11609
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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
You'll notice I edited my post to say in the past 25 years, meaning back in the mob days I'm sure these things happened. Probably been longer than that for any big casino.
I would guess so because the big resorts have too much to lose if they get caught. It is easy enough for a trained person to see a dealer dealing seconds, so it would just take one time to possibly shut the place down.

Although, on another subject...I remember hotel security guys watching me and hookers coming up to me in the big places after I scored a big blackjack win. I would tell the cute little $1000 priced sex worker who noticed that I was carrying some large denomination chips that a security guy is watching us and she just said, "I know, dont worry, there is no problem". And there never was, these big resorts were crawling with these college girls making money on the side to pay for school, their drug habits or whatever else. This was in the 90's. I am not sure if that kind of stuff is still going on at that level now. It just made me wonder what other kinds of things were going on right under the authorities noses...

Last edited by DonkoTheClown; 01-04-2010 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:56 PM   #11610
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
The voting is at the top of the page. This part of the page is set up for discussion about whether or not poker is rigged.

Do you have any proof that poker is rigged or not rigged?
i did vote idiot and do you?
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:00 PM   #11611
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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i did vote idiot and do you?
I think his point is that it is redundant to write your choice in the thread if you aren't going to add anything else. If all you have to say is yes/no then the poll should suffice.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:04 PM   #11612
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I think his point is that it is redundant to write your choice in the thread if you aren't going to add anything else. If all you have to say is yes/no then the poll should suffice.
did what you said add to the thread? shall we go through the other 770 odd pages and quote every post that didnt technically add something to the poker is rigged debate... hmm... like every post so far on this page
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:38 PM   #11613
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by TwoMoos View Post
Cheating was suspected on Absolute Poker, but it took an insider's help to prove it.
What insider? I may be showing my naivety here, but I don't think anyone involved with AP or UB said anything until it became exceedingly obvious that something was up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchererBoy View Post
I guess most people do remember more unlucky outcomes than favorable ones. But on that note, it seems like I/we see so many situations arise where the most unlikeliest of outcomes takes place.
Of course it seems that way, because of the first part. If you watch AA beat KK, you go "Well duh" and move on. When you see something weird it stands out, and if you see a few weird things in a short amount of time, it seems even weirder than normal and stands out more.
Quote:
Also, I haven't looked at his stats link yet, but does it have every player at the tables hole cards included in it?
No, and it doesn't need to.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:46 PM   #11614
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

FFS!

Online poker is not rigged. I have spent 5 years playing live and just started playing online ( 45k hands in 3 weeks ) and I can tell you right now it's all legit. If you think it's rigged, you are probably just trying to justify the fact you are a steaming, losing degenerate and as much as you try, you realise you will never be as good as the winning players out there because simply you are not smart enough

Losing live players blame the dealer, losing online player blame the site
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:48 PM   #11615
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Cheating was suspected on Absolute Poker, but it took an insider's help to prove it.
No it didn't.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:48 PM   #11616
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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They aren't that worried about what some state bureacrat tells them to do. The casino operators run an honest game because it's best for business, and they make more money that way. Same thing online.
LOLOLOL, yea your right they aren't worried? You don't know what your talking about. They run honest games because they know they are being watched and can't get away with anything. They are under a microscope by an indpendant unbiased, unpaid by them industry. Casinos are the only people paying taxes in Nevada. Online couldn't be more different. The site's owners know they have a golden goose and have done things by hiding offshore and in Canada to facilitate this. On top of the fact they want the US congress to overturn a law against them, still while not on US land. Which will never happen.

Quote:
If you don't think the stockholders and executives of Absolute/UB wish they could take Hamilton out and shoot him (maybe not literally) for the damage he did by cheating, then you are also stupid
More bunk. If they did where was the oversight? How can someone do what he did without detection for so long? Then walk away without a slap on the wrist? The fact that any brick and mortar casino lets him play cards at their tables is unbelievable.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:52 PM   #11617
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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The fact that any brick and mortar casino lets him play cards at their tables is unbelievable.
We can agree on this.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:05 PM   #11618
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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did what you said add to the thread? shall we go through the other 770 odd pages and quote every post that didnt technically add something to the poker is rigged debate... hmm... like every post so far on this page
Could my post have been answered simply by voting in the poll? This isn't a tough concept. Listen, I don't care what you post in this thread, (this thread isn't exactly full of deep thinking), but simply saying "yes or no" in a post is pretty redundant since you could just, you know, vote.

Anyway, carry on.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:07 PM   #11619
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by banonlinepoker View Post
LOLOLOL, yea your right they aren't worried? You don't know what your talking about. They run honest games because they know they are being watched and can't get away with anything. They are under a microscope by an indpendant unbiased, unpaid by them industry. Casinos are the only people paying taxes in Nevada. Online couldn't be more different. The site's owners know they have a golden goose and have done things by hiding offshore and in Canada to facilitate this. On top of the fact they want the US congress to overturn a law against them, still while not on US land. Which will never happen.



More bunk. If they did where was the oversight? How can someone do what he did without detection for so long? Then walk away without a slap on the wrist? The fact that any brick and mortar casino lets him play cards at their tables is unbelievable.
So what happened with Enron? Where was that company regulated again?
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:21 PM   #11620
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

No sites would be so stupid to rigg their rng in a way which could be shown at normal hand analysis and statistics. What you need to look at is players winnings deposits withdraws and activity and I believe time matters as well. Like when different people did what. It would be a very clever formula which would generate most possibly profit, but at the same time be very hard to exploit. If stars is rigged its rigged this way. If you would be able to study every hand played at pokerstars without having the knowledge of all the factors mentioned above you wont find anything.

To prove its rigged you would probably need a team of 20 guys + working togheter online from different countries even (lol). And it would cost a few bucks as well. But I would def to a thing like that to try to prove what I believe in.

But think about it. Why wouldnt a million dollar company improve their profit with lets say 10% and only a risk of 99,5% not getting caught. They operate in a place where nobody is really checking if their actual systems works fair ans sqaure. They have every reason and oppurtunity to do it. Its -ev to not do it lol.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:24 PM   #11621
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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So what happened with Enron? Where was that company regulated again?
So Ken Lay's wife dumped 500,000 shares of Enron 30 minutes (at most) before it was announced Enron was bankrupt and had no charges pressed against her, NGC would be far more harsh and strict than that.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:27 PM   #11622
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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You're really failing hard right now. Clue: You should probably read at least a few other posts from within the last day or so.
OK, you miss my point. No independent regulatory oversight. Some guys here are doing great work, but they are individuals.

Do you understand I'm not saying it is rigged? I'm saying online poker doesn't have adequate oversight. Without independent, adequate oversight, it just does not have full credibility.

BTW, does PTracker (or other) give you more confidence in the online poker's honesty?
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:31 PM   #11623
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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OK, you miss my point. No independent regulatory oversight. Some guys here are doing great work, but they are individuals.

Do you understand I'm not saying it is rigged? I'm saying online poker doesn't have adequate oversight. Without independent, adequate oversight, it just does not have full credibility.

BTW, does PTracker (or other) give you more confidence in the online poker's honesty?
Why is Isle of Man worse than US oversight in your opinion? Please be specific or else you'll be a confirmed xenophobe in my mind. I agree that regulation in the USA would be a good thing, but more because it would make it a lot easier to deposit for American players.

The USA isn't some magic land where corruption doesn't exist. In fact some would argue corruption is more rampant in the US than many other places.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:35 PM   #11624
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Why is Isle of Man worse than US oversight in your opinion? Please be specific or else you'll be a confirmed xenophobe in my mind. I agree that regulation in the USA would be a good thing, but more because it would make it a lot easier to deposit for American players.

The USA isn't some magic land where corruption doesn't exist. In fact some would argue corruption is more rampant in the US than many other places.
Now I can agree with this. In fact, corruption is so much a part of human behavior, it makes me wonder how online poker has so many vociferous defenders.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:40 PM   #11625
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I just want a part of this thread.

11635!!!
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