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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:29 PM   #11351
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Rigged or not, it is in online sites best interest to be in these threads to act as damage control and to manipulate the view of online poker. It is part of a marketing agenda. Probably not a bad idea for them.
Pitbull Poker should of invested in QPW...
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:32 PM   #11352
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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It's all about trust dude, have you ever heard of ethics?
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Pitbull Poker should of invested in QPW...
Tk is one of our resident rigtards. He's a special little guy.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:33 PM   #11353
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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You ever see David Blaine: Street Magic?
Sure, but anyone with that kind of talent wont be sitting for too long in low to midstakes tournament, those guys dont make very much money. It would be a good place to practice on me though, to watch me blow up. LOL!
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:34 PM   #11354
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Here's a start: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15.../#post14594621

I'm sure you could search around and find more.

Now, rigtards will always come up with new theories as to how it could go undetected, but the bottomline is there is no evidence in support of online poker being rigged and quite a bit against it. Not to mention asking to prove a negative (ie. prove online poker is not rigged) is a hellacious fallacy.

Lestat, you should read some more of this thread, there are some pretty imaginative conspiracy theories the rigtards come up with.
Like which one? A former employee of a poker site, and a past WSOP ME winner cheating players out of millions by viewing their opposition's hole cards?
Surely, somebody would go to jail if such a travesty should occur....? Who would do such a thing...Ever heard of Morals? Ethics?

Last edited by tk1133; 12-21-2009 at 08:35 PM. Reason: The "resident" comment was good...LoL'd
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:41 PM   #11355
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Like which one? A former employee of a poker site, and a past WSOP ME winner cheating players out of millions by viewing their opposition's hole cards?
Surely, somebody would go to jail if such a travesty should occur....? Who would do such a thing...Ever heard of Morals? Ethics?
I'm talking about RNG's being rigged. Poker site scandals have happened, as have scandals in most industries. Those have to be dealt with on a case by case basis and 2+2 posters (usually non-rigtards*) are front and center in outing the perpetrators. See AP/UB and Pitbull. When there is evidence provided 2+2 can be a very powerful place.

*Rigtards being those who believe the RNG is rigged.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:55 PM   #11356
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Have other people ran abnormaly good on their first or second deposits?
I lost both of my first 2 deposits on FTP within 4 days of depositing, in probably >1000 hands.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:57 PM   #11357
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Pitbull Poker should of invested in QPW...
TK, you are well aware of the lengths Pitbull went to avoid players getting their hands on large numbers of handhistories. Why do you think that was? Having access to your handhistories is an enormous deterrent to rigging the games.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:00 PM   #11358
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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TK, you are well aware of the lengths Pitbull went to avoid players getting their hands on large numbers of handhistories. Why do you think that was? Having access to your handhistories is an enormous deterrent to rigging the games.
Can't argue, but regulating and liscensing online poker would also be a deterrent to rigging the games...
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:09 PM   #11359
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I'm talking about RNG's being rigged. Poker site scandals have happened, as have scandals in most industries. Those have to be dealt with on a case by case basis and 2+2 posters (usually non-rigtards*) are front and center in outing the perpetrators. See AP/UB and Pitbull. When there is evidence provided 2+2 can be a very powerful place.

*Rigtards being those who believe the RNG is rigged.
I see, I will have to re-evaluate my position...I always looked at rigged as a whole, not just the RNG...
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:33 PM   #11360
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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You are right, I will never beat online poker with the cards running they way they are. I am also making some mistakes with AK and other big non pair hands when my M is below 12. Thats easy to fix, but if someone decided that I am an enemy of online poker and decided to flip the doomswitch on me, I will never know and can never prove it. So why bother?
It's the cards. It's the evil rooms with their doomswitches for guys that play $2 tourneys. It's the Lizard People. It's the superbots. It's everything and everybody but you. I agree with your very last comment, there is no need for you to bother at this point.

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Live is a different story, I can see the cards and see the cut. I have never suspected any of the poker rooms I play in here or Las Vegas to be cheating. Sure, bad beats come, I just got two outed in a tournament a few days back. It happens. I can accept it and even joke about it because it isnt happening over and over again like a broken record.
Whenever you run into a long bad run live your paranoid side will kick in. Just look around and see the people who are running bad and listen to their mutterings. That's you at a different point in time live. That's you now online. Congrats.

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The bottom line is that it is easier for me to win live, so I am going to spend my time and money there and stop worrying about online poker. The convenience and the amount of tables you can play online is really what I am going to miss, but I am not going to miss the year long nasty run of cards. Rigged or not, I dont need that.
Then play live. Nobody is disputing that is the better option for you, especially since you can't beat online due to all sorts of mystical forces at work against you that are not at all your fault.


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So you just sit with your 15 tables open waiting for big pocket pairs to show up so you can push all in. If that is what makes your living, you should do it. It seems to be working for you and is making you feel mighty enough about yourself to talk down to people who are not doing as well as you are. Good for you, feel some pride.
Wait for pocket pairs and shove... Wow, solid well thought out strategic analysis of the entire situation. Hard to imagine you cannot beat online when you look at the game with such rich depth.

I only talk down to people who refuse at all times to use any common sense and focus on ways to actually improve. Don't forget way back when I offered you many, many posts of suggestions that were genuinely constructive but all you came back with were variations of "I don't know, what if they are watching and doomswitch me."

You try to help someone like that, after a while the best plan is to give up on helping and just mock them for what they are.

Best of luck live. Keep us updated with how you make 40 final tables a week somehow.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:57 PM   #11361
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
It's the cards. It's the evil rooms with their doomswitches for guys that play $2 tourneys. It's the Lizard People. It's the superbots. It's everything and everybody but you. I agree with your very last comment, there is no need for you to bother at this point.



Whenever you run into a long bad run live your paranoid side will kick in. Just look around and see the people who are running bad and listen to their mutterings. That's you at a different point in time live. That's you now online. Congrats.


Then play live. Nobody is disputing that is the better option for you, especially since you can't beat online due to all sorts of mystical forces at work against you that are not at all your fault.




Wait for pocket pairs and shove... Wow, solid well thought out strategic analysis of the entire situation. Hard to imagine you cannot beat online when you look at the game with such rich depth.

I only talk down to people who refuse at all times to use any common sense and focus on ways to actually improve. Don't forget way back when I offered you many, many posts of suggestions that were genuinely constructive but all you came back with were variations of "I don't know, what if they are watching and doomswitch me."

You try to help someone like that, after a while the best plan is to give up on helping and just mock them for what they are.

Best of luck live. Keep us updated with how you make 40 final tables a week somehow.
The wait for big pair and push was the strategy I saw you using. One of those times you picked up QQ and were re raised all in against AA. Your simple style does work though, lots of tables open at once and lots of pushing with big pairs. Then if there are any tables still open after you have won some big showdowns, you can open up your game. Your results dont lie, you are doing well with it.

You know that I play higher than $2 tournaments. You just like to muddy the waters like a tabloid reporter does. Here are my results again, not pretty, but clearly showing that you are lying again. This is how you discredit anyone who says that they dont trust online poker and are running way below expectation.

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...78AFB.html?t=2
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:09 PM   #11362
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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The wait for big pair and push was the strategy I saw you using. One of those times you picked up QQ and were re raised all in against AA. Your simple style does work though, lots of tables open at once and lots of pushing with big pairs. Then if there are any tables still open after you have won some big showdowns, you can open up your game. Your results dont lie, you are doing well with it.
Sheesh, that was in a rebuy during the rebuy period for the most part. My only plays in those for the first hour and a half are shove, fold or sometimes limp. Even later on that's a very valid approach with all the loose -85% ROI guys in those tournaments.

You want to read the extremely long, crazy write up I did about Omaha DoNs which go into all sorts of details about player types, stack dynamics, various unexpected EV situations and a whole lot more, or do you want to watch me play a single low level NL rebuy on Stars where shoving big hands is an easy approach because someone is always calling with the trifecta of A rag, KQ or 33 all in preflop and make generalizations of my play from that?

As I have said before, your critical analysis skills for lack of a better term suck.



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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
You know that I play higher than $2 tournaments. You just like to muddy the waters like a tabloid reporter does. Here are my results again, not pretty, but clearly showing that you are lying again. This is how you discredit anyone who says that they dont trust online poker and are running way below expectation.

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...78AFB.html?t=2
$2, $12 whatever. If you cannot beat these games then it is you. I discredit you because you make excuses for everything and never take responsibility, and I wasted a bunch of time earlier trying to offer constructive suggestions to that type of person which was a bad read on my part. Plus your take on everything is so limited it is annoying.

Just play live where the world is not against you or something.

Good luck.

Last edited by Monteroy; 12-21-2009 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:17 PM   #11363
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It's the cards. It's the evil rooms with their doomswitches for guys that play $2 tourneys. It's the Lizard People. It's the superbots. It's everything and everybody but you. I agree with your very last comment, there is no need for you to bother at this point.

.
I of course need to improve my game. I am working on that. It isnt going to matter if I have been black balled online. I played one hand in a tournament the other night on a site that hadnt played on for one year. First hand I play I flop a set and get two outed yet again on the river. How does that happen? Am I so unlucky? Really? Are you serious? Cmon, give me a break...so ****ing rigged. Yes, I am talking about AP. **** them. Same bull**** that was happening before.

I am not saying that anyone is watching me and bending a joystick to shoot me down, I just think that sites can add player names to a list that puts them on the blackballed list. They could do this because of past events like chat violations, cash outs, complaints to customer service, etc. If you are on this list, you will run very bad until you give up. Then no one can make a big deal about your account being closed, you will just die a slow miserable death. That is my intuition about what is going on with these sites after seeing a ridiculous run of cards this year. It is beyond probabilty but just within possibility to be seen as variance. That is one of my theories. When I know that I am getting cheated, I start thinking about how and why. I think my theory is reasonable. It would be undetectible because none of the players on this list would ever reach the long haul in their hand histories and people like you who are running like God will just not believe it.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:24 PM   #11364
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Sheesh, that was in a rebuy during the rebuy period for the most part. My only plays in those for the first hour and a half are shove, fold or sometimes limp. Even later on that's a very valid approach with all the loose -85% ROI guys in those tournaments.

You want to read the extremely long, crazy write up I did about Omaha DoNs which go into all sorts of details about player types, stack dynamics, various unexpected EV situations and a whole lot more, or do you want to watch me play a single low level NL rebuy on Stars where shoving big hands is an easy approach because someone is always calling with the trifecta of A rag, KQ or 33 all in preflop and make generalizations of my play from that?

As I have said before, your critical analysis skills for lack of a better term suck.


Good luck.
Like I said that is all I saw because I didnt have time to see where your game went after you built your stack. There is nothing wrong with what you do because your results dont lie, you are doing well. I am not disputing that. Stop being so defensive, you are good at what you do. I dont have a problem admitting that. That is your world. Imposing your view based on your results is very short sighted. When you talk about a very narrow view just remember that it is easy to see fault in others when things are going so well for yourself. I cant believe that you cannot fathom the possibility of some of these sites making some adjustments to their own benefit.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:28 PM   #11365
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I of course need to improve my game. I am working on that.
Sorry, no longer buying into it that you are serious about working on your game. I fell for that a while ago, not again. You will just whine when a couple bad things happen and apply mystical forces as the fault.

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It isnt going to matter if I have been black balled online.
See, this is the start of that process.

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I played one hand in a tournament the other night on a site that hadnt played on for one year. First hand I play I flop a set and get two outed yet again on the river. How does that happen? Am I so unlucky? Really? Are you serious? Cmon, give me a break...so ****ing rigged. Yes, I am talking about AP. **** them. Same bull**** that was happening before.
And there we have it, full blown paranoid delusional beliefs at work. Now AP is in on it as well lying in wait for a year to screw you in a $5 tournament? Whatever.


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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I am not saying that anyone is watching me and bending a joystick to shoot me down, I just think that sites can add player names to a list that puts them on the blackballed list.
Fine, you are saying they programmed a joystick to watch you. Huge difference...


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They could do this because of past events like chat violations, cash outs, complaints to customer service, etc. If you are on this list, you will run very bad until you give up. Then no one can make a big deal about your account being closed, you will just die a slow miserable death. That is my intuition about what is going on with these sites after seeing a ridiculous run of cards this year. It is beyond probabilty but just within possibility to be seen as variance. That is one of my theories. When I know that I am getting cheated, I start thinking about how and why. I think my theory is reasonable. It would be undetectible because none of the players on this list would ever reach the long haul in their hand histories and people like you who are running like God will just not believe it.
You tossed in a sentence about working on your game and then all of this plowed out after.

Trust me on this. Eventually live you will have a bad run where all of this paranoid thoughts will kick in and suddenly you will think the dealers and pit bosses and other players and the cocktail waitresses are all in on it to cause you to lose. Live Lizard People also, may as well add them to the mix. Good luck when that happens, you will need it.

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I cant believe that you cannot fathom the possibility of some of these sites making some adjustments to their own benefit.
And I cannot fathom that you think all of these sites have hired a ton of people to create this complex system to screw people and have never been caught, nor have any of those doing it come forward. Even the rooms that have shut down. It's just paranoid nonsense, nothing more. Prove something and I will believe it. You spend a lot of time on this and none on working on your actual game. Smart...

Putting you on ignore again ( no idea why the last time did not stick).

Last edited by Monteroy; 12-21-2009 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:40 AM   #11366
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Can't argue, but regulating and liscensing online poker would also be a deterrent to rigging the games...
Name 5 unregulated sites. You're a broken record with your "US regulation is the only regulation on earth" schtick.
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And I cannot fathom that you think all of these sites have hired a ton of people to create this complex system to screw people and have never been caught, nor have any of those doing it come forward. Even the rooms that have shut down. It's just paranoid nonsense, nothing more.
Don't forget that the "rigging" stops once you get past the $50ish SNGs and 200NL, stakes where the rake would actually start to be fairly meaningful to the site. Obviously though at those stakes they need to run a fair game because such skilled players would instantly sense the rigging.
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Old 12-22-2009, 04:30 AM   #11367
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

i win 10 percent of flips life time . I am on the list for chat violations and other in fractions
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Old 12-22-2009, 04:49 AM   #11368
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I misspelled "YOUR, shoulda been "YOU'RE....You coulda made fun of me for that...
I noticed that but as everyone is well aware that you are only semi literate there was little point mentioning it.

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Anyways, why do you post SOOOO much here?
What is it to you?

There are a lot of people who post more than me.

Quote:
You are either a complete and total weirdo or....?
... or just someone who doesn't see why idiots like you should be able to post their garbage and not have it challenged.

Anyone who reads this thread will have noticed long ago that you NEVER argue a point of fact or logic I make.

All you ever do is whine:

You're a shill
You post a lot
You don't play poker.

You're a sorry excuse for a poker player but you do serve a very useful purpose here: You are the poster-boy for the moronic rigtards and doubtless discourage others from following the rigtard dark side lest they end up like you.

Now, you have a nice day.
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Old 12-22-2009, 04:51 AM   #11369
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Can't argue, but regulating and liscensing online poker would also be a deterrent to rigging the games...
Online poker is already licenced and regulated.

Why are you such a fool, tk1133?
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:52 PM   #11370
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i win 10 percent of flips life time . I am on the list for chat violations and other in fractions
Please post stats on this so we can discuss.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:59 PM   #11371
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Online poker is already licenced and regulated.

Why are you such a fool, tk1133?

He means by a credible source (like a u.s. agency)... Why are you such a fool, qpw? You never understand things until people explain them to you ten times.. I had the same prob with you
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:04 PM   #11372
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Please post stats on this so we can discuss.
Donko, it's you who is going off the deep end now. Even if you think something is rigged, you really think there's ANYBODY in the world who wins only 10% of flips lifetime over any kind of meaningful sample? For God's sake... COME ON!!!
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:06 PM   #11373
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Donko, it's you who is going off the deep end now. Even if you think something is rigged, you really think there's ANYBODY in the world who wins only 10% of flips lifetime over any kind of meaningful sample? For God's sake... COME ON!!!
That is why I asked him to post the stats.

10% usually means 45%
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:07 PM   #11374
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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He means by a credible source (like a u.s. agency)... Why are you such a fool, qpw? You never understand things until people explain them to you ten times.. I had the same prob with you
Who regulated Enron again?
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:08 PM   #11375
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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He means by a credible source (like a u.s. agency)... Why are you such a fool, qpw? You never understand things until people explain them to you ten times.. I had the same prob with you
Yep, the US is the only credible country in this world.

Man, your act is pathetic.
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