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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2009, 04:37 AM   #11226
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
I am a winning player also
I love to start the day with a laugh.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:17 AM   #11227
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Re: If you were to believe poker is rigged

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And yet that is exactly how virtually every company in the Western world handles its auditing.

Only, worse that the IoM situation in those cases the company itself chooses the auditors and could choose someone they believed would be more amenable to certain dodgy accounting practices. (Worldcom:Authur Anderson).

At least in this situation it is the regulatory authority who chooses the auditors, not the company being inspected.
Some people seems to thing that a Audit is a surprising visit from the auditors, or that the autitors check in a secret manner the business.

Thats simple not true you know in januar that a audit happens march 15-18.
You know exactly what they want see...and sure in the normal buisiness all companys "prepare" a bit for such audits.

I did around 20 on both sites ISO, CSA / UL.

I have no idea if they really audit the RNG, its more common that they look ...oh they still use the RNG from company XYZ.

I dark remember that rating agencies gave AAA to bankrupt bonds last year.
I dark remember that someone cheat 50 billions in the US.
I dark remember that the entrepeneur from 2007 in germany is now bankrupt and his complete business was cheated.

I dont say poker is rigged but definetely you can manipulate any system.

The most surprising for me is you believe its rigged and you loose...but still play ????? Why people do this
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:28 AM   #11228
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Re: If you were to believe poker is rigged

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I dont say poker is rigged but definetely you can manipulate any system.
Indeed, which is why all the talk of 'regulation' is so brainless.

The only way to check the system is to look at the evidence.

If you thought that your electricity company was screwing you your best check would be to get a power meter and run a known load for a while and check that the company's meter reading tallied with your own.

Presumably the rigtards would all go on an electricity forum and whine about how the meters were rigged but based on timing so you can't get evidence.

Quote:
The most surprising for me is you believe its rigged and you loose...but still play ????? Why people do this
Because they are ******ed.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:30 AM   #11229
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
that thread is the funniest stuff. I've seen lately. I had to get up. out of my chair almost crying.
fyp
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:44 AM   #11230
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I have been sent from the future to warn everyone!



Poker is rigged.
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:57 AM   #11231
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I have been sent from the future to warn everyone!



Poker is rigged.
WOW!

Thanks.

I'll cash out straight away.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:04 AM   #11232
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
ROI was -15% not -50%
Again, you can provide the user name info (was the same for Stars and Tilt) if you like, but the breakdown from what I saw was the following:

Stars OPR

$251 <$0 -25% $13 1229 15% 3/26 12%

(prizes, profit, ROI, buy in, ave number of entrants, % rebuys, ITMs #, ITM %


Full Tilt OPR:

$674 <$0 -64% $19 804 12% 11/97 11%


higher buy in at tilt, nearly 4 times the games and a much worse ROI - so I estimated the combined at around 50% and ave buy in $15

The cash game stats were the following:

Earnings: $-767
Hands: 337
BB/100: -57.46


$1/$2 NLH SH 228 $-604 -66.24 $35 $12 Dec 20th, 2008
$0.5/$1 NLH 43 $-23 -26.34 $7 $2 Dec 13th, 2008
$1/$2 NLH 40 $61 38.28 $5 $2 Dec 13th, 2008
$1/$2 PLH 20 $-171 -214.13 $3 $1 Dec 13th, 2008
$2/$4 NLH SH 4 $-30 -93.75 $0 $0 Dec 13th, 2008
$0.5/$1 PLH 2 $0 0.00 $0 $0 Dec 13th, 2008


All the results pretty much cut off at the end of 2008 which is when I assume you quit trying to play (for good reason) and became a full time riggedologist.

If there is any actual evidence you are a winning player, you have yet to provide it, though you have proven you were a losing, relatively casual (in terms of volume) player so far.
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Old 12-18-2009, 10:47 AM   #11233
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by obviously.bogus
I'm not a "computer scientist", but I have programmed computer systems in international banks that dealt with billions of dollars a day.
While nobody will ever actually do this, it would be genuinely funny to see a list of all the things various riggedologists have claimed they do in this thread. Literally hundreds have posted and made all sorts of expertise claims and yet not a single one comes close to ever making the sense that spade, pyro, KingofFelt or Josem make with regards to the math/techie issues.
I don't care if you don't believe what I say, and I'm not that bothered if you don't think much of my ideas, but do I really come off as a rigtard? That hurts !!
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:01 AM   #11234
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I don't care if you don't believe what I say, and I'm not that bothered if you don't think much of my ideas, but do I really come off as a rigtard? That hurts !!
Nah, you are just a partial riggedologist and I know you believe everything you say which means you are not intentionally lying (as some other riggedologists do). However, you do follow a long list of people who mention their expertise/experience without proof and then make statements that are a tad puzzling in terms of common sense and logic given their claimed knowledge.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:11 AM   #11235
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Nah, you are just a partial riggedologist and I know you believe everything you say which means you are not intentionally lying (as some other riggedologists do). However, you do follow a long list of people who mention their expertise/experience without proof and then make statements that are a tad puzzling in terms of common sense and logic given their claimed knowledge.


I claim that it *should* be possible for a site to have verifiably non-rigged systems, and this makes me a rigtard ???
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:28 AM   #11236
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I claim that it *should* be possible for a site to have verifiably non-rigged systems, and this makes me a rigtard ???
Rigtard is such a harsh word, let's stay with partial riggedologist.

You are not a full blown one which says outright everything is rigged, you are the variety that tosses out lots of "why don't they make it more secure, you know? By the way I am an expert on this" that implies something "may" be up. Sometimes they add lines like "I never said it is rigged" which usually has a but implied at the end.

Lots use that approach in this thread, just as you are doing. Does not make you a bad human being or a full blown paranoid guy who thinks the world is conspiring against you. Does make you a partial riggedologist.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:35 AM   #11237
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

anyone who posts on this thread is a turd, wait what??
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:51 PM   #11238
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Rigtard is such a harsh word
But oh so appropriate.

Quote:
let's stay with partial riggedologist.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

I'd go with partial rigtard.
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:09 PM   #11239
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I'd go with partial rigtard.
Borderline disorder, treatable with sufficient doses of information.
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:14 PM   #11240
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Rigtard is such a harsh word, let's stay with partial riggedologist.

You are not a full blown one which says outright everything is rigged, you are the variety that tosses out lots of "why don't they make it more secure, you know? By the way I am an expert on this" that implies something "may" be up. Sometimes they add lines like "I never said it is rigged" which usually has a but implied at the end.

Lots use that approach in this thread, just as you are doing. Does not make you a bad human being or a full blown paranoid guy who thinks the world is conspiring against you. Does make you a partial riggedologist.

Hope this helps.
You may have missed the other side of the argument which was that even if inspectors looked at source code, a rigged site could be running something else on the servers. My belief is that it should be possible to design a system where that is verifyably not possible. I only brought up my former employment when qpw said something to the effect of "so what do you know about computers?"

If you read into my posts that I think that online poker even "may" be rigged, you are wrong.

For the record I do *NOT* think that any of the major online poker sites are rigged, and if I ever say that they are (either here, or in the chat box), I'm only joking.
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:41 PM   #11241
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Monteroy... I don't know what you're using but use sharkscope
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:00 PM   #11242
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by obviously.bogus View Post
My belief is that it should be possible to design a system where that is verifyably not possible.
You could, but it would require that the verifying authority had physical control of the servers at all times and ran the verified software for the pokersite.

And verifying the software would cost millions.

Every time the slightest change was made teams of people would have to crawl all over it to check that nothing had been done to compromise its integrity.

It simply isn't practical. You need to operate some other way - such as having hundreds of thousands of customers ready to spot any discrepancies.
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:01 PM   #11243
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Monteroy... I don't know what you're using ...
At this time of day I believe it's usually an 'E' tablet with Gin.
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:17 PM   #11244
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Online poker is nothing but rigged set up hands and donks getting lucky.
Completely asinine that these sites are allowed to continue ruining bankrolls as well as lives, when they haven't passed any type of inspection in 5 years.
Anyone with any type of intuition will eventually realize that these sites are bogus.


Ruining bankrolls, AS WELL AS LIVES! Favorite part of that post.

So you losing your $50 deposit ruined your life. OMG the excuses some people come up with. Just a HUGE LOL to all the rigtards in this thread
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:21 PM   #11245
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

ldo
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:26 PM   #11246
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I had AA, got sucked out by 44. Such rigged bullsht
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:41 PM   #11247
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Party tells you how long someone's been on their site?
i have every hand datamined
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:04 PM   #11248
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I had AA, got sucked out by 44. Such rigged bullsht
Yeah, because that could never happen in a bricks and mortar game.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:16 PM   #11249
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by obviously.bogus View Post
You may have missed the other side of the argument which was that even if inspectors looked at source code, a rigged site could be running something else on the servers. My belief is that it should be possible to design a system where that is verifyably not possible. I only brought up my former employment when qpw said something to the effect of "so what do you know about computers?"
Do you think your designed system in theory would change anything? I am not a computer guy so I am not pretending to understand any of the chat when you guys start talking tech talk, but every system can be made so insanely secure at a massive cost. You can have 5 cops on every street corner and that will prevent crime, but the cost and efficiency of that would make it impractical.

Are you saying that the sites are not doing something they should and if they do it would be an efficient, practical use of resources to do so?

Lots just chime in "what's wrong with more security?" without having any real clue how it works or the cost mechanisms of all the variables. Separate yourself from them if you like with more information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Monteroy... I don't know what you're using but use sharkscope
You have not opted in so your results are not shown there. I use pokerlabs for those players and your SnG results are not really good either.

Your cash game stats are from tableratings.

Your MTT results are from OPR.

As I said, it is up to you to reveal the user name you sent me. I will happily post links to all the sites with your data if you prefer but of course that would mean I reveal your user name.

Really not sure what you are trying to do here, it's not like I am making up the data I found and I will happily show the sources if you like. You know - that prove a statement thing I annoy you and other riggedologists about. I'm not into revealing info given via PM (like user names) unless the person says it is ok, even if it is a riggedologist.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:27 PM   #11250
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Bro, who are you to make the assumption he is a bad player because of one HH? I am a winning player also so do not make your judgement of online poker from your winnings. Basicall what you're saying is that online poker is definetely not rigged and that the "bad players" are the one's yelling "rigged"... but how do you know this?? one hand history means nothing
To Monteroy and anyone else who wants to read: You can see in my online results that I have won tournaments and multi table sng's. Sure, my ROI is in the negative on one site and barely in the positive on the other. This should tell you that I dont always make fatal errors in my thinking while playing in Multi SnG's and MTT's. I am still learning. What is concerning to me is that when I am all in with the best hand or even a coin flip, I am losing most of the time. This has nothing to do with my inconsistent approach to the game. When I said that I am crushing the live games, I said this because it is so and to let you know that I am not that bad of a player. I also dont see a skill difference in the players online and live. Although, they are both different games that require different approaches.

Monteroy, I truly hope that you are right when you say that online poker is not rigged in any way for any reason. You would most certainly say this because you have found a way to win. Whether it is because of your solid approach or because you have adjusted your game to work around the rig, I am not sure. Good luck to you and all of the others who are doing well, your success does not prove to me that something isnt wrong. You may be a bigger winner if these site were not rigged. This may mean that break even players or players who would normally eeek out a positive ROI are showing up losers. That is my opinion based on what I have seen in my stats and my own personal experiences with online poker. I am also very curious about why some posters are so adamant about online poker not being rigged. That is a big red flag for me.
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