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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:18 PM   #10976
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Here is my typical night online...almost $6k in prize money if you can dodge the two outers on the turn and the river...DOH!
Not to be nitty, but your 2 outer was a 5 outer on the river as a jack would yield a chop.


I also have doubts that an all in well before the cash bubble (of probably 3 bucks) in a $2 tournament cost you $6000 in prizes.

Get over it somehow.

By the way, not sure how I even saw your post, thought I put you on ignore :P

Hint, maybe limp less with that stack in future.

Edit: Just noticed your min raise on the flop as well. Maybe just play less in future. That likely would be +EV

Last edited by Monteroy; 12-08-2009 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:19 PM   #10977
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Did you just randomly pressed down on your keyboard and click Submit Reply? Or was this some sort of mad lib?

The ______ from ______ has known about that for ages. I am sure everyone remembers the ______ story. When the ______ invaded ______ all the ______ run to the ______. So is there any ______ involved? I believe so, the ______ will soon ______ it all.

I want to play


The pope from Rancho Cucamonga has known about that for ages. I am sure everyone remembers the Padishah Emperor story. When the Padishah Emperor invaded Wal-Mart all the Catholics run to the gay nightclub. So is there any fate involved? I believe so, the cats tiny ball bag will soon occupy it all.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:30 PM   #10978
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Not to be nitty, but your 2 outer was a 5 outer on the river as a jack would yield a chop.


I also have doubts that an all in well before the cash bubble (of probably 3 bucks) in a $2 tournament cost you $6000 in prizes.

Get over it somehow.

By the way, not sure how I even saw your post, thought I put you on ignore :P
LOL!

A chop is a win for me these days. So I didnt count those outs.

Ignorance is not bliss, you cant help but to take a swing at The DonkoTheClown Pinata. HAHAHA!
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:34 PM   #10979
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Did you even glance at the final table of this year's Main Event?
Ya, that was ridiculous, the main event was rigged. lol

This wasnt just one hand. This was one of many, many hands in a row this year. I will just keep telling myself that I am unlucky and that this nasty patch of bad luck will pass.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:37 PM   #10980
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Ya, that was ridiculous, the main event was rigged. lol

This wasnt just one hand. This was one of many, many hands in a row this year. I will just keep telling myself that I am unlucky and that this nasty patch of bad luck will pass.
Maybe try not playing donkaments for a while? It's not like shaundeeb or any of the other well known donkament pros doesn't get a **** ton of beats all at once, they just play through them.

When you choose to play a form of poker where luck is a huge factor, you can't be all that shocked when it doesn't go your way.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:42 PM   #10981
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Not to be nitty, but your 2 outer was a 5 outer on the river as a jack would yield a chop.


I also have doubts that an all in well before the cash bubble (of probably 3 bucks) in a $2 tournament cost you $6000 in prizes.

Get over it somehow.

By the way, not sure how I even saw your post, thought I put you on ignore :P

Hint, maybe limp less with that stack in future.

Edit: Just noticed your min raise on the flop as well. Maybe just play less in future. That likely would be +EV
What are you talking about? I was able to get him all in drawing to two outs on the river for the win and 3 for the chop. Why shouldnt I expect to double up right there knowing exactly where I am in the hand after the turn? The min raise told me exactly where I was in the hand. If he re raises there, I fold. If he just calls, no matter what happens on the turn, I move it all in and have a chance to win even if he has a bigger ace. I was lucky enough or unlucky enough to catch the 4 on the turn so it was all of it. He called and the vacuum turned on...
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:44 PM   #10982
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Here is my typical night online...almost $6k in prize money if you can dodge the two outers on the turn and the river...DOH!

PokerStars Game #36439708281: Tournament #237010962, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/12/08 18:52:56 PT [2009/12/08 21:52:56 ET]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
I also have doubts that an all in well before the cash bubble (of probably 3 bucks) in a $2 tournament cost you $6000 in prizes.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:45 PM   #10983
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by LVGambler View Post
The ______ from ______ has known about that for ages. I am sure everyone remembers the ______ story. When the ______ invaded ______ all the ______ run to the ______. So is there any ______ involved? I believe so, the ______ will soon ______ it all.

I want to play


The pope from Rancho Cucamonga has known about that for ages. I am sure everyone remembers the Padishah Emperor story. When the Padishah Emperor invaded Wal-Mart all the Catholics run to the gay nightclub. So is there any fate involved? I believe so, the cats tiny ball bag will soon occupy it all.
Let's keep it a bit more thread based

The riggedologist from microstakesland has known about that for ages. I am sure everyone remembers the entropy story. When the superbots invaded secretly all the $2 tournaments run to the max capacity. So is there any shills involved? I believe so, the Lizard People will soon control it all.

P.S. I just lost in the $3 rebuy semi near the bubble with KK to a -92% ROI guy's A5o. 72k pot at 800/1600 and he did the standard limp call massive raise play many do with A rag, KQ, and 22 type hands in these. The prize pool was probably 40,000 or so, so I guess that cost me 40k give or take.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
What are you talking about? I was able to get him all in drawing to two outs on the river for the win and 3 for the chop. Why shouldnt I expect to double up right there knowing exactly where I am in the hand after the turn? The min raise told me exactly where I was in the hand. If he re raises there, I fold. If he just calls, no matter what happens on the turn, I move it all in and have a chance to win even if he has a bigger ace. I was lucky enough or unlucky enough to catch the 4 on the turn so it was all of it. He called and the vacuum turned on...
Every single thing you did before the turn was extremely painful to read. You are just bad. Congrats on getting it in on the turn there once you have 2 pairs and barely any chips left compared to the pot. Well done.

Your analysis of your flop play is silly given those stakes. He told you where he thought he was in the hand when he bet, you just chose to ignore it.

Next time fold preflop
Raise preflop, even shove it if you like.
Shove the flop. Fold the flop to his bet (if player is extreme loose passive).

Basically do everything you did not do.

This is why you cant beat $2 tournaments.

Last edited by Monteroy; 12-08-2009 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:50 PM   #10984
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Maybe try not playing donkaments for a while? It's not like shaundeeb or any of the other well known donkament pros doesn't get a **** ton of beats all at once, they just play through them.

When you choose to play a form of poker where luck is a huge factor, you can't be all that shocked when it doesn't go your way.
You are right, playing that low is like playing bingo until you have a monster chip stack. I did notice more folding at the $11 and higher buy in tournaments. You have a bit more range to make a play on someone as a result. My ABI is a little higher than $2 though. I jumped into it because it seemed like a good buy for $2... I guess I can go down and buy a lottery ticket instead? LOL
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:54 PM   #10985
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I'll just pile on and say limping the CO with A4s a couple hours into the tournament with an M of 8ish, then minraising your TPNK, probably not the best strategy.

Last edited by otatop; 12-09-2009 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:05 AM   #10986
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
I'll just pile on and say limping the HJ with A4s a couple hours into the tournament with an M of 8ish, then minraising your TPNK, probably not the best strategy.
Ya, you guys are right, I should have raised or folded. I have been messing around with playing smaller pots lately and played this like I had more chips than I did. I can see what your saying about the play, but that doesnt change the river card. LOL!
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:05 AM   #10987
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
qpw, you're a fool and it amazes me you have been posting in this topic every single day since it was created. just quit, bro... i was skeptical at first when people accused posters on this board of being employed by poker sites but your demeanor makes me think otherwise.. stop wasting your time and/or find a new job!
Hey Steven, long time no see. How's Real Deal coming along?
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:46 AM   #10988
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGEDONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGEDONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONONLINE POKER IS RIGGED LINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:25 AM   #10989
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
qpw, you're a fool and it amazes me you have been posting in this topic every single day since it was created. j
Smears, I know that you don't mind everyone knowing that you are an idiot and a liar (which is just as well) but really, how can you post nonsense like this and hope to get away with it.

The underlined section is not even close to the truth.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:26 AM   #10990
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by pooflinger View Post
ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGEDONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGEDONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONONLINE POKER IS RIGGED LINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED
Nice demo of the intellectual capabilities of your average rigtard.
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:19 PM   #10991
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

deifnetly full tilt and uber rigged in favour of ft pros
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:02 PM   #10992
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

1. Is available hand history information(HUD?) enough to make a judgement on whether online poker is rigged?
2.Has anyone done such a test so far and what is result?
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:08 PM   #10993
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by wmwmw View Post
1. Is available hand history information(HUD?) enough to make a judgement on whether online poker is rigged?
To any intelligent player, yes. To a rigtard, no (but then nothing would ever satisfy a rigtard).

Quote:
2.Has anyone done such a test so far and what is result?
Yes.

It wasn't rigged.
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:54 PM   #10994
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Here is my typical night online...almost $6k in prize money if you can dodge the two outers on the turn and the river...DOH!

PokerStars Game #36439708281: Tournament #237010962, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/12/08 18:52:56 PT [2009/12/08 21:52:56 ET]
Table '237010962 57' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: shiko240 (17105 in chips)
Seat 2: steven12012 (4565 in chips)
Seat 3: eagles7800 (12207 in chips)
Seat 4: doggie luva (13482 in chips)
Seat 5: UhOh_It'sJoe (5190 in chips)
Seat 6: himizu (3490 in chips)
Seat 7: GiLlaz_888 (17705 in chips)
Seat 8: Darkfury7 (9440 in chips)
Seat 9: gcDanno (6170 in chips)
shiko240: posts the ante 25
steven12012: posts the ante 25
eagles7800: posts the ante 25
doggie luva: posts the ante 25
UhOh_It'sJoe: posts the ante 25
himizu: posts the ante 25
GiLlaz_888: posts the ante 25
Darkfury7: posts the ante 25
gcDanno: posts the ante 25
GiLlaz_888: posts small blind 125
Darkfury7: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to UhOh_It'sJoe [4h Ah]
gcDanno: folds
shiko240: folds
steven12012: calls 250
eagles7800: folds
doggie luva: folds
UhOh_It'sJoe: calls 250
himizu: folds
GiLlaz_888: folds
Darkfury7: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ac Js 3h]
Darkfury7: bets 500
steven12012: folds
UhOh_It'sJoe: raises 500 to 1000
Darkfury7: calls 500
*** TURN *** [Ac Js 3h] [4s]
Darkfury7: bets 1000
UhOh_It'sJoe: raises 2915 to 3915 and is all-in
Darkfury7: calls 2915
*** RIVER *** [Ac Js 3h 4s] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Darkfury7: shows [Ad 3s] (a full house, Threes full of Aces)
UhOh_It'sJoe: shows [4h Ah] (two pair, Aces and Fours)
UhOh_It'sJoe said, "lol"
Darkfury7 collected 10930 from pot
steven12012 said, "wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10930 | Rake 0
Board [Ac Js 3h 4s 3c]
Seat 1: shiko240 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: steven12012 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: eagles7800 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: doggie luva folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: UhOh_It'sJoe showed [4h Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fours
Seat 6: himizu (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: GiLlaz_888 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Darkfury7 (big blind) showed [Ad 3s] and won (10930) with a full house, Threes full of Aces
Seat 9: gcDanno folded before Flop (didn't bet)


If you play this badly it's no wonder you feel you are being cheated.

How do you think your lies about the prize money for this tournament reflects on the credibility of your "rigged" theories?
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:16 PM   #10995
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy View Post
If you play this badly it's no wonder you feel you are being cheated.

How do you think your lies about the prize money for this tournament reflects on the credibility of your "rigged" theories?
I think he's already admitted he played the hand badly.

Also Donko (and anyone posting individual HHs in this thread) please use the handconverter! Makes them much easier to read!
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:53 PM   #10996
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Here is my typical night online...almost $6k in prize money if you can dodge the two outers on the turn and the river...DOH!

PokerStars Game #36439708281: Tournament #237010962, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/12/08 18:52:56 PT [2009/12/08 21:52:56 ET]
Table '237010962 57' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: shiko240 (17105 in chips)
Seat 2: steven12012 (4565 in chips)
Seat 3: eagles7800 (12207 in chips)
Seat 4: doggie luva (13482 in chips)
Seat 5: UhOh_It'sJoe (5190 in chips)
Seat 6: himizu (3490 in chips)
Seat 7: GiLlaz_888 (17705 in chips)
Seat 8: Darkfury7 (9440 in chips)
Seat 9: gcDanno (6170 in chips)
shiko240: posts the ante 25
steven12012: posts the ante 25
eagles7800: posts the ante 25
doggie luva: posts the ante 25
UhOh_It'sJoe: posts the ante 25
himizu: posts the ante 25
GiLlaz_888: posts the ante 25
Darkfury7: posts the ante 25
gcDanno: posts the ante 25
GiLlaz_888: posts small blind 125
Darkfury7: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to UhOh_It'sJoe [4h Ah]
gcDanno: folds
shiko240: folds
steven12012: calls 250
eagles7800: folds
doggie luva: folds
UhOh_It'sJoe: calls 250
himizu: folds
GiLlaz_888: folds
Darkfury7: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ac Js 3h]
Darkfury7: bets 500
steven12012: folds
UhOh_It'sJoe: raises 500 to 1000
Darkfury7: calls 500
*** TURN *** [Ac Js 3h] [4s]
Darkfury7: bets 1000
UhOh_It'sJoe: raises 2915 to 3915 and is all-in
Darkfury7: calls 2915
*** RIVER *** [Ac Js 3h 4s] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Darkfury7: shows [Ad 3s] (a full house, Threes full of Aces)
UhOh_It'sJoe: shows [4h Ah] (two pair, Aces and Fours)
UhOh_It'sJoe said, "lol"
Darkfury7 collected 10930 from pot
steven12012 said, "wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10930 | Rake 0
Board [Ac Js 3h 4s 3c]
Seat 1: shiko240 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: steven12012 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: eagles7800 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: doggie luva folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: UhOh_It'sJoe showed [4h Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fours
Seat 6: himizu (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: GiLlaz_888 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Darkfury7 (big blind) showed [Ad 3s] and won (10930) with a full house, Threes full of Aces
Seat 9: gcDanno folded before Flop (didn't bet)
god, u are so bad. u are live player who sometimes plays online, right?
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:13 PM   #10997
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

i dont know i mean they say its a rng but really i mean how many suckouts can i suffer a day. do you know how many runner runners have beaten my sets, top two pair?
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:20 PM   #10998
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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i dont know i mean they say its a rng but really i mean how many suckouts can i suffer a day. do you know how many runner runners have beaten my sets, top two pair?
The key here is do you know how many runner runners have beaten your sets or top pair?
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:47 PM   #10999
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Not to **** on Donko, because God knows I'm just a lowly microstakes player as who has tons to work on his game) but I think is an very good example of how bad play can be converted in one's mind as either bad luck or "ZOMG its rigged!" Both folding or raising preflop would have very likely turned this hand into one that either didn't cost any chips, or gained chips.

The difference between me and a rigtard is that when I make a boneheaded play like this (and I have made plenty!) I don't blame the site, I blame myself.

I think we are often very poor at evaluating our own play. It can be eye opening to have this kind of thing pointed out to us. It seems clear to me that at the time Donko posted it he had no clue that it was poorly played. Honestly, next time you get a hand that you find suspicious, post it in the strat forums to have your play evaluated. You may find it illuminating.

Again, I'm not ****ting on you Donko, but I think your post has brought an important issue to light.
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:25 PM   #11000
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Not to **** on Donko, because God knows I'm just a lowly microstakes player as who has tons to work on his game) but I think is an very good example of how bad play can be converted in one's mind as either bad luck or "ZOMG its rigged!" Both folding or raising preflop would have very likely turned this hand into one that either didn't cost any chips, or gained chips.

The difference between me and a rigtard is that when I make a boneheaded play like this (and I have made plenty!) I don't blame the site, I blame myself.

I think we are often very poor at evaluating our own play. It can be eye opening to have this kind of thing pointed out to us. It seems clear to me that at the time Donko posted it he had no clue that it was poorly played. Honestly, next time you get a hand that you find suspicious, post it in the strat forums to have your play evaluated. You may find it illuminating.

Again, I'm not ****ting on you Donko, but I think your post has brought an important issue to light.
It is a very common behavior and I do see it all the time. Many times a player loses a hand via a bad beat that he could have easily won if he played it better and then blames the site for the loss.

I have had players yell at me and yell at the riggedness of stars when I beat them with an unraised BB hand that flopped huge and cracked their aces. They yell when you river them after no betting on the flop and turn, as if you were supposed to fold on their bets of 0. Yet they will shove massive amounts of chips once behind and then yell rigged when they lose.

In terms of EV for games that's great and a pattern that is nice to see (much like how in the casino whoring days it was great to see people worry about all of them being rigged), but it does get tiring after a while when all it is is a player playing badly.

Donko's hand is not that extreme (though it is the same behavior in a milder form), but the river beat should never have been a factor. The hand should not have gone to the river or if it did it should have been aftyer all the money went in much earlier and then whatever so be it if a bad beat happens.
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