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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:26 AM   #10801
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
Space seems to be the only reg in this thread who wants to back his position with stats. The others are worthless to the positions they wish to deffend. The others tend to bash the bad players (so very bad), or ignore the reasonable. The problem with Space is that the stats he wants to run, are the stats I would use as a constant if I had a site and wanted to maximize. I have an outline in my head on how to cheat, and (in this outline), I would use the stats by Space to "prove" I'm on the up & up.
Spade please don't let posts like this discourage you from posting your work. Personally, I intend to let you post it before telling you that its worthless.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:45 AM   #10802
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
This thread has run its course and should drift to the back. It was more fun when one could start a new "riigged" thread when things are gloom.

The same 5 or 6 site deffenders bash the posters (some site deffenders paid by sites... some probably not), some "rigtards", some "rigologists", whatever.

I think a lot of people don't realize how crooked everything that involves humans and money can be. I once cut a deal with a developer for 150K but the Town board was totally aginst it. I took a huge beating by the board at a meeting. The deal was good for the developer, (he had investers), I got it continued.
Sixty days later, The developer,investers and myself had coffee with the Mayor in his office while waiting for the next meeting to start. The very same board members that bashed me 2 months earlier, would had givin me a hand job as they approved the variance. I didn't pay anyone anything, but I highly, highly, highly suspect the mayor was paid off.

Your bank, credit card company, morgage broker, F&I guy at car dealership, plummer, electritian, doctor, lawyer, auto shop, cell phone Co., Cable Co., local, state , and federal governments will try to take you for an extra buck............hell, sometimes the paperboy throws the advertisments (he was paid to put in your morrning paper), in the creek by his moms house.
The dealer cuts his coke (regardless how much HIS dealer cut it before), 1/2 OZ of grass is a gram short from the other guy, NBA ref gets in trouble W/ bookie (it comes to light after weird call), Horse races are fixed daily ( mostly single trainer juices a horse with a race in him, sometimes colusion), I could go on N on.

But you are a ****** not to think online pokersites are the most honest people in the world. Those guys who own the sites... ummm.... well, no need to know who they are, they must be straight arrrows.

Anyone ever see the movie casino? "The dealer watches the player, the floorman watches the dealer, the pit boss watches the 3 of them, and the eye in the sky watches everybody". That was in the old days when ownership could just go kill a thief.
Now-a-days, corprate owners can't put the fear of death in the potential crook, but there is also 24/7 gaming commision, ON SITE, at my local casino's. Even with all the layers of protection at the large casino's, a dealer was busted this year palming 1K chips out of the Bobby's Room game at the B. Who watches the server farms?

It is perfectly reasonable for a person that makes his living from online poker promoting/ deffending the integrity of the games. It is also perfectly reasonable for anyone to question the integrity of the games.

The sites have the resources to open things up to the public, and they choose not to do so. This is a BIG RED FLAG to anyone that has lived life for awhile.

Space seems to be the only reg in this thread who wants to back his position with stats. The others are worthless to the positions they wish to deffend. The others tend to bash the bad players (so very bad), or ignore the reasonable. The problem with Space is that the stats he wants to run, are the stats I would use as a constant if I had a site and wanted to maximize. I have an outline in my head on how to cheat, and (in this outline), I would use the stats by Space to "prove" I'm on the up & up.
Joshem does not bash people but is a paid rep. Linking RNG code does not instill confidence to the thoughtful.
Plus 1 dude...
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:45 AM   #10803
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Ignorance? By the FBI cyber division?

Perhaps you should read the PPA response to this letter...Which would summerize my point....
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:27 PM   #10804
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Plus 1 dude...
ROFLMAO.

You think the thread has run its course but continue to post your nonsense to it keeping it going longer and longer.

Oh, wait - you're one of those idiot rigtards who believes that on line poker is rigged and keep playing.

I think I can see a pattern.
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:57 PM   #10805
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
If a news article came out tomorow and said Full Tilt was caught rigging the game after someone physically entered their overseas database i bet you'd all switch over to pokerstars and/or refuse to believe it
Thanks for the laugh. You clearly have no idea how an RNG works or what it even is. This isn't Tron.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:35 PM   #10806
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
You clearly have no idea how an RNG works or what it even is
? what are you talking about

maybe you should explain... you are one of the few who likes to pinpoint every little word i say for errors and/or slight mistypes and then say "HA!! I GOT YOU!" ... but you never do
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:36 PM   #10807
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post

[snipped .... quoted for the link]
Well that settles it for me. .... Obv Rigged

Cliffs ... There are lots of corrupt people in the world, therefore its reasonable to assume that online poker is corrupt.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:46 PM   #10808
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
? what are you talking about

maybe you should explain... you are one of the few who likes to pinpoint every little word i say for errors and/or slight mistypes and then say "HA!! I GOT YOU!" ... but you never do
An RNG is not a physical thing that someone can "walk into". You can't just go into an RNG and look around. An RNG is verified as working via statistical analysis, not by entering a big room and looking at it.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:48 PM   #10809
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by obviously.bogus View Post
Cliffs ... There are lots of corrupt people in the world, therefore its reasonable to assume that everyone is corrupt.
FYP.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:53 PM   #10810
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
If a news article came out tomorow and said Full Tilt was caught rigging the game after someone physically entered their overseas database
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Thanks for the laugh. You clearly have no idea how an RNG works or what it even is. This isn't Tron.

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Old 12-04-2009, 02:57 PM   #10811
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
? what are you talking about

maybe you should explain... you are one of the few who likes to pinpoint every little word i say for errors and/or slight mistypes and then say "HA!! I GOT YOU!" ... but you never do
Good grief, are you paralytic?

I know know one takes you seriously anyway but you might at least make some, slight, effort to make sense.
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:00 PM   #10812
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
If a news article came out tomorow and said Full Tilt was caught rigging the game after someone physically entered their overseas database i bet you'd all switch over to pokerstars and/or refuse to believe it
If FT have an 'overseas' database, I wonder where that would be?

Arkansas, maybe.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:06 PM   #10813
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
This thread has run its course and should drift to the back. It was more fun when one could start a new "riigged" thread when things are gloom.

The same 5 or 6 site deffenders bash the posters (some site deffenders paid by sites... some probably not), some "rigtards", some "rigologists", whatever.

I think a lot of people don't realize how crooked everything that involves humans and money can be. I once cut a deal with a developer for 150K but the Town board was totally aginst it. I took a huge beating by the board at a meeting. The deal was good for the developer, (he had investers), I got it continued.
Sixty days later, The developer,investers and myself had coffee with the Mayor in his office while waiting for the next meeting to start. The very same board members that bashed me 2 months earlier, would had givin me a hand job as they approved the variance. I didn't pay anyone anything, but I highly, highly, highly suspect the mayor was paid off.

Your bank, credit card company, morgage broker, F&I guy at car dealership, plummer, electritian, doctor, lawyer, auto shop, cell phone Co., Cable Co., local, state , and federal governments will try to take you for an extra buck............hell, sometimes the paperboy throws the advertisments (he was paid to put in your morrning paper), in the creek by his moms house.
The dealer cuts his coke (regardless how much HIS dealer cut it before), 1/2 OZ of grass is a gram short from the other guy, NBA ref gets in trouble W/ bookie (it comes to light after weird call), Horse races are fixed daily ( mostly single trainer juices a horse with a race in him, sometimes colusion), I could go on N on.

But you are a ****** not to think online pokersites are the most honest people in the world. Those guys who own the sites... ummm.... well, no need to know who they are, they must be straight arrrows.

Anyone ever see the movie casino? "The dealer watches the player, the floorman watches the dealer, the pit boss watches the 3 of them, and the eye in the sky watches everybody". That was in the old days when ownership could just go kill a thief.
Now-a-days, corprate owners can't put the fear of death in the potential crook, but there is also 24/7 gaming commision, ON SITE, at my local casino's. Even with all the layers of protection at the large casino's, a dealer was busted this year palming 1K chips out of the Bobby's Room game at the B. Who watches the server farms?

It is perfectly reasonable for a person that makes his living from online poker promoting/ deffending the integrity of the games. It is also perfectly reasonable for anyone to question the integrity of the games.

The sites have the resources to open things up to the public, and they choose not to do so. This is a BIG RED FLAG to anyone that has lived life for awhile.

Space seems to be the only reg in this thread who wants to back his position with stats. The others are worthless to the positions they wish to deffend. The others tend to bash the bad players (so very bad), or ignore the reasonable. The problem with Space is that the stats he wants to run, are the stats I would use as a constant if I had a site and wanted to maximize. I have an outline in my head on how to cheat, and (in this outline), I would use the stats by Space to "prove" I'm on the up & up.
Joshem does not bash people but is a paid rep. Linking RNG code does not instill confidence to the thoughtful.
Bump because every time someone posts something good, the defenders post quick, pointless one liners to hide the intelligent post.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:23 PM   #10814
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
Space (sic) seems to be the only reg in this thread who wants to back his position with stats.
To be clear, I don't really have a position other than whatever the evidence shows. I criticize BS when I see it and sometimes have fun doing it, and I've also made a lot of posts explaining why various theories don't work, usually in a reasonable tone. But if my data were to show that a site was manipulating the deal, it would be pretty cool to be the one to discover that. It's equally satisfying to be the one to show some hard evidence that the deal is fair. When I finish my database analysis, it will answer some questions and satisfy some people, but certainly it won't be the last word. The results that I'm writing up are interesting for a lot of reasons unrelated to whether the deal is fair. I hope to add some new knowledge and insights that no one has discovered or quantified before, about card removal effects, distributions, biases caused by player decisions, and so on. I'm putting all this on a web site which I'll make available before long.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:25 PM   #10815
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
LOL. Nice.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:28 PM   #10816
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Bump because every time someone posts something good, the defenders post quick, pointless one liners to hide the intelligent post.
You are awesome BucketFoot. You never cease to entertain. I particularly like the part where you bump a thread that you agree with in which the first line is "this thread should run its course and drift to the back".

Please keep posting BucketFoot. You're special.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:48 PM   #10817
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
You are awesome BucketFoot. You never cease to entertain. I particularly like the part where you bump a thread that you agree with in which the first line is "this thread should run its course and drift to the back".

Please keep posting BucketFoot. You're special.
You are awesome KingOfFelt. You never cease to entertain. I particularly like the part where you infer that a thread running its course means a subject has run its course also, and actually add zero to the discussion.

Please keep posting KingOfFelt. You're special.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:57 PM   #10818
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by makemecool View Post
You are awesome KingOfFelt. You never cease to entertain. I particularly like the part where you infer that a thread running its course means a subject has run its course also, and actually add zero to the discussion.

Please keep posting KingOfFelt. You're special.
Well when you bump a post it also bumps the thread. Almost 5000 posts and you haven't realized that? This isn't rocket science. And when a rigtard posts some statistical evidence of an RNG being rigged, I will be happy to discuss it with them. Until then this thread is just for fun.

But good joke. You totally took what I said, changed it a bit and put my name in it instead of BucketFoot. Pretty funny I must say. You here all week?
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:37 PM   #10819
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The RNG has to be corrupt for a poker site to be "rigged?!"
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:42 PM   #10820
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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The RNG has to be corrupt for a poker site to be "rigged?!"
Not necessarily, but that seems to be the general theme that most rigtards go along with. Of course, if you want to say that superusing etc. is also rigging, that's fine, but again please present evidence. I think the 2+2 community has a very good history of banding together and getting to the bottom of things when actual evidence is provided. See AP/UB and Pitbull as examples.

However, this thread is full of paranoid people just yelling "RIGGED!!" and providing absolutely no evidence. That's the reason this thread is pretty much a joke and is treated as such. I guarantee you if solid evidence is brought to this thread all the non-rigtards would take it seriously...but alas, we are still waiting for that to happen.
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:43 PM   #10821
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Well when you bump a post it also bumps the thread. Almost 5000 posts and you haven't realized that? This isn't rocket science. And when a rigtard posts some statistical evidence of an RNG being rigged, I will be happy to discuss it with them. Until then this thread is just for fun.

But good joke. You totally took what I said, changed it a bit and put my name in it instead of BucketFoot. Pretty funny I must say. You here all week?
Like R4R said you are on this kick that it's not humanly possible to "Rig" a poker room. What seperates your logic from ours is that morals and ethics are preventing such a travsty to occur. If it were humanly possible to "Rig" an RNG, then I don't want some Indian Tribe in Canada, regulating and overseeing my ANY FINANCIAL activity in my Country!
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:47 PM   #10822
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Like R4R said you are on this kick that it's not humanly possible to "Rig" a poker room. What seperates your logic from ours is that morals and ethics are preventing such a travsty to occur. If it were humanly possible to "Rig" an RNG, then I don't want some Indian Tribe in Canada, regulating and overseeing my ANY FINANCIAL activity in my Country!
I never said it isn't possible, but there is no evidence whatsoever that it is happening. You could be a murderer, but I don't think you are because I have no evidence to believe you are.
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Old 12-04-2009, 05:54 PM   #10823
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
Not necessarily, but that seems to be the general theme that most rigtards go along with. Of course, if you want to say that superusing etc. is also rigging, that's fine, but again please present evidence. I think the 2+2 community has a very good history of banding together and getting to the bottom of things when actual evidence is provided. See AP/UB and Pitbull as examples.

However, this thread is full of paranoid people just yelling "RIGGED!!" and providing absolutely no evidence. That's the reason this thread is pretty much a joke and is treated as such. I guarantee you if solid evidence is brought to this thread all the non-rigtards would take it seriously...but alas, we are still waiting for that to happen.
If everybody thought the way you did, then AP/UB never would of been exposed...
Nobody has provided sufficient evidence that it's not "rigged" either. In my opinion if it were rigged, I don't think a multi billion dollar operation would leave any loose ends for public detection.
That being said, if there was nothing to hide there would be more transparency in their operations by the Poker sites, not that of avoiding US soil to avoid arrest from US Marshalls. Thus, there is no transperancy and like Howard Lederer stated, "It's all about trust." To me, that's simply not good enough. Somebody needs to be breathing down their necks making sure proper enforcements are made and customers are protected. The sad thing is, it should be the poker players....
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:01 PM   #10824
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I agree that it is very unlikely that the major sites are rigged. I however do not believe that there is any way to be conclusive on this. Just because a rigtard or a semi rigtard or a stats nit has not presented evidence, it doesnt mean that it is not happening. Just like the superuser scandals, there is always a point where the cheating is under the radar or within the radars range of detection. We dont know how many more situations were going on like this where the cheaters were being smarter and less blatant with their use of a superuser account. These scenarios on their own make the chance of sites being rigged alot more likely in my mind. When you find issues like these, they tend to be the tip of the iceberg not the exception.

I dont think sifting through hand histories is going to cover the wide range of possible rigs and cheats that could be happening. We are not talking about a black and white subject here. I am sure that any large site that would be rigging their programming would be able to figure out how to do it in a way that would be virtually undetectable or they wouldnt do it at all because they are not going to risk their operation unless they have a solid approach and a big upswing in their bottom line.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:01 PM   #10825
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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I never said it isn't possible, but there is no evidence whatsoever that it is happening. You could be a murderer, but I don't think you are because I have no evidence to believe you are.
Apples to Apples and Oranges to Oranges please...

I don't give a **** if the CEO's, the employees, the software designer for the poker site, their gaming commission, or random players are rigging the game. This isn't a prosection or a vendetta cause...It's called:

Pre-emtive Measures...
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