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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-03-2009, 04:48 PM   #10776
tk1133
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
It is a truth generally accepted that dishonest people are the first to suspect dishonesty in others.

It is the way their minds work.

I suspect that a good proportion of the rigtards here are crooks or would be crooks who just cannot believe that anyone in the position of a poker room could possibly resist the chance to run a crooked game.
What your also saying is that ethics and morals would prevent one from running a crooked game? So online poker is on an honor system?
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:57 PM   #10777
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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What your also saying is that ethics and morals would prevent one from running a crooked game? So online poker is on an honor system?
TK, take motives out of it. Whether or not the sites are run by honest people or not, the single biggest reason for any site not to rig the RNG if they want to stick around is the fact that it would be relatively easy to get caught. Such is not the argument with sites who may not have an interest in staying around, of who have already concluded they need to close and so will do something dastardly prior to being shut down (a la - allegedly - Pit Bull).

In poker, the cards tell the tale. The evidence is there. Spadebidder has been analyzing a billion hands and says there is nothing amiss. Attack his credibility if you want, but you still have to admit there is no evidence.

I asked this of Donko a few days ago: do you accept that there are stat nits out there with huge handhistory databases? If so, is it strange that none of them have come forward with serious accusations.

No one is saying that the sites are run by angels. But unless they're exceptionally dumb crooks, it would appear that rigging is not the way to go.
This has nothing to do with naivety but with practicality.
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:22 PM   #10778
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Re: online poker/ casinos destined to lose?

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the only thing that is "real" that is bad in online poker is bots, collusion, ghosting, and multi accounting.
What's ghosting?
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:07 PM   #10779
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
the Bills are going to win
Bucketfoot Bookie A is clearly delusional
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:18 PM   #10780
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

FTP is rigged
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:02 PM   #10781
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Bucketfoot Bookie A is clearly delusional
Nah, I am going to go with his suggestion and place a small bet on the Bills. Odds are this fictional character can be just as good as many of the weird bloggers handicappers in the sports betting forum who write 5,000 word write ups per game and not shockingly are about 50/50 in their picks long term (with the spread).

Efficient markets dominate, but go Bills tonight!
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:04 PM   #10782
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
TK, take motives out of it. Whether or not the sites are run by honest people or not, the single biggest reason for any site not to rig the RNG if they want to stick around is the fact that it would be relatively easy to get caught. Such is not the argument with sites who may not have an interest in staying around, of who have already concluded they need to close and so will do something dastardly prior to being shut down (a la - allegedly - Pit Bull).

In poker, the cards tell the tale. The evidence is there. Spadebidder has been analyzing a billion hands and says there is nothing amiss. Attack his credibility if you want, but you still have to admit there is no evidence.

I asked this of Donko a few days ago: do you accept that there are stat nits out there with huge handhistory databases? If so, is it strange that none of them have come forward with serious accusations.

No one is saying that the sites are run by angels. But unless they're exceptionally dumb crooks, it would appear that rigging is not the way to go.
This has nothing to do with naivety but with practicality.
I agree and I can't argue w/ that. However, this thread is titled, Online Poker is rigged, not Online Poker's RNG's(Deals) are rigged...
"Rigged" in poker terms, has been taken out of context....
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:33 PM   #10783
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Re: online poker/ casinos destined to lose?

maybe you are spot on HSB.
although i wouldnt say i was that bad i have come top 3in a 100k tourney, 16th out of 2000 players in a 75k, plus a few other final tables.
i m not perfect at all but you do notice.
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:37 PM   #10784
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Re: online poker/ casinos destined to lose?

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I have now cancelled my membership at Ultimate bet and a couple of others
So how exactly did you cancel your "membership"?
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:41 PM   #10785
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Re: online poker/ casinos destined to lose?

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call me stupid call me paranoid
Ok you are stupid and paranoid
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:46 PM   #10786
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Re: online poker/ casinos destined to lose?

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i m not perfect at all
That's for sure. A few screws short of a toolbox?
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:51 PM   #10787
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Re: online poker/ casinos destined to lose?

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Originally Posted by erniebilko View Post
What's ghosting?
You get deep in a tournament, but aren't very good. You happen to know someone who is, who takes over for you in exchange for some of the winnings.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:41 PM   #10788
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

http://republicans.financialservices...20response.pdf

This
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:53 PM   #10789
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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You mean there is collusion, money laundering and underage gambling going on? Sure seems rigged to me!
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:56 PM   #10790
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

^^Again, you miss the big picture....^^

Last edited by tk1133; 12-03-2009 at 10:56 PM. Reason: Regulate poker and this thread is dismissed...
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:42 PM   #10791
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Apart from demonstrating the ignorance of the author of that letter on these issues, is there a point to this link?
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:48 PM   #10792
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by programmed2lose View Post
maybe you are spot on HSB.
although i wouldnt say i was that bad i have come top 3in a 100k tourney, 16th out of 2000 players in a 75k, plus a few other final tables.
i m not perfect at all but you do notice.



Quote:
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^^Again, you miss the big picture....^^
I see all the people pointing out that many sites ARE regulated weren't just wasting bandwidth telling you that.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:53 PM   #10793
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
You mean there is collusion, money laundering and underage gambling going on? Sure seems rigged to me!
I though that FBI memo seemed pretty fair and the writer was not totally ignorant. The things you mention are what regulation would mostly eliminate. But it won't have any effect on riggedologists or the growing length of this thread.

Those who think that diligent U.S. regulation of online games would eliminate the rigged complaints are fooling themselves. That will never change no matter what authority certifies the games, because the randomness and luck of a poker deal won't change. Rigged believers think that regulation will give them comfort and assurance, but that will only last long enough to see that nothing about the deal changes whatsoever. The same will be true with the realdealpoker thing about to open. Once the novelty of real cards in an online game wears off, they are going to make a ton of money on their "paid audits" where you can pay somebody $50 to audit your game including video of the real shuffle and deal. That's how they will make money. Because bad beats and amazing suckouts won't change at all. Before long there will be a "realdealpoker is rigged" thread like this one.

Most people truly don't understand randomess at all, and have this idea that it means things are evenly distributed according to expection, rather than the chaotic clumping, streaks, ups, downs, humps, bumps, and zig zag nature of true randomness. The smoothing out takes much much longer than anyone's ability to track patterns mentally.

I remember when I was a kid and we always had multicolored blinking lights on the Christmas tree. Usually there were about 4 strings and they all had their own little blinker attachment that you put between the cord and the outlet (before they started putting that in a bulb) and that made each string go at slightly different speeds, as they never matched exactly. This created patterns that were forever changing. I was getting into music in my early teens and I would sit with my records or 8 tracks on and watch the tree with the room lights off. It would mesmerize me for hours, but the cool thing is that pretty frequently the lights would appear to be totally in sync with a passage of music, hitting every note, every drum beat, every rhythm just as if it were choreographed. If you watched closely it would happen with just about any song at some point. A friend and I would watch it until it happened and then shout "Cool, man, duuude". Adults were amused at our imagination.

The human mind can make amazingly meaningful patterns out of any chaos if you want it to. Riggedologists want to see those choreographed patterns in the lights, and so they do. Adults are amused at them too.

Merry Christmas.

Last edited by spadebidder; 12-04-2009 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:56 AM   #10794
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Its just sad to me to see all of you who actually believe online poker companies are dealing a legit game..some of you wont even accept the actuality that it IS possible and very likely that the games are being manipulated.

You're all blinded by your graphs and the success of OTHER internet poker superstars... wake up
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:59 AM   #10795
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

If a news article came out tomorow and said Full Tilt was caught rigging the game after someone physically entered their overseas database i bet you'd all switch over to pokerstars and/or refuse to believe it
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:21 AM   #10796
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

This thread has run its course and should drift to the back. It was more fun when one could start a new "riigged" thread when things are gloom.

The same 5 or 6 site deffenders bash the posters (some site deffenders paid by sites... some probably not), some "rigtards", some "rigologists", whatever.

I think a lot of people don't realize how crooked everything that involves humans and money can be. I once cut a deal with a developer for 150K but the Town board was totally aginst it. I took a huge beating by the board at a meeting. The deal was good for the developer, (he had investers), I got it continued.
Sixty days later, The developer,investers and myself had coffee with the Mayor in his office while waiting for the next meeting to start. The very same board members that bashed me 2 months earlier, would had givin me a hand job as they approved the variance. I didn't pay anyone anything, but I highly, highly, highly suspect the mayor was paid off.

Your bank, credit card company, morgage broker, F&I guy at car dealership, plummer, electritian, doctor, lawyer, auto shop, cell phone Co., Cable Co., local, state , and federal governments will try to take you for an extra buck............hell, sometimes the paperboy throws the advertisments (he was paid to put in your morrning paper), in the creek by his moms house.
The dealer cuts his coke (regardless how much HIS dealer cut it before), 1/2 OZ of grass is a gram short from the other guy, NBA ref gets in trouble W/ bookie (it comes to light after weird call), Horse races are fixed daily ( mostly single trainer juices a horse with a race in him, sometimes colusion), I could go on N on.

But you are a ****** not to think online pokersites are the most honest people in the world. Those guys who own the sites... ummm.... well, no need to know who they are, they must be straight arrrows.

Anyone ever see the movie casino? "The dealer watches the player, the floorman watches the dealer, the pit boss watches the 3 of them, and the eye in the sky watches everybody". That was in the old days when ownership could just go kill a thief.
Now-a-days, corprate owners can't put the fear of death in the potential crook, but there is also 24/7 gaming commision, ON SITE, at my local casino's. Even with all the layers of protection at the large casino's, a dealer was busted this year palming 1K chips out of the Bobby's Room game at the B. Who watches the server farms?

It is perfectly reasonable for a person that makes his living from online poker promoting/ deffending the integrity of the games. It is also perfectly reasonable for anyone to question the integrity of the games.

The sites have the resources to open things up to the public, and they choose not to do so. This is a BIG RED FLAG to anyone that has lived life for awhile.

Space seems to be the only reg in this thread who wants to back his position with stats. The others are worthless to the positions they wish to deffend. The others tend to bash the bad players (so very bad), or ignore the reasonable. The problem with Space is that the stats he wants to run, are the stats I would use as a constant if I had a site and wanted to maximize. I have an outline in my head on how to cheat, and (in this outline), I would use the stats by Space to "prove" I'm on the up & up.
Joshem does not bash people but is a paid rep. Linking RNG code does not instill confidence to the thoughtful.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:51 AM   #10797
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

New to thread and no, I haven't read all 217 pages!

However, it really surprises me that over 37% of replies to the survey say "yes it is"....and I'm willing to be that of those 37% who replied yes at least 70% still play online poker with regularity.

Seems strange to wager money on something that you strongly feel is rigged to make you lose even when you continue to make correct decisions that would yield positive results in live play.

(plus I'm trying to get a few posts so my PMs turn on )

Best of luck at the tables!
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:20 AM   #10798
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
This thread has run its course and should drift to the back. It was more fun when one could start a new "riigged" thread when things are gloom.
Everyone knows it is beyond a dead horse, but the whole forum was cluttered with people who needed to start threads to post their paranoid manifestos or personal life bad beat scenarios before all of the merging. The personal bad beat life scenarios riggedologists used to give as examples were the worst.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
I think a lot of people don't realize how crooked everything that involves humans and money can be. I once cut a deal with a developer for 150K but the Town board was totally aginst it. I took a huge beating by the board at a meeting. The deal was good for the developer, (he had investers), I got it continued.
Sixty days later, The developer,investers and myself had coffee with the Mayor in his office while waiting for the next meeting to start. The very same board members that bashed me 2 months earlier, would had givin me a hand job as they approved the variance. I didn't pay anyone anything, but I highly, highly, highly suspect the mayor was paid off.
Ooh, a personal life bad beat story that shows that not every human is a saint. Very deep and moving...

Too bad you can't start threads with important tales like the above anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
Your bank, credit card company, morgage broker, F&I guy at car dealership, plummer, electritian, doctor, lawyer, auto shop, cell phone Co., Cable Co., local, state , and federal governments will try to take you for an extra buck............hell, sometimes the paperboy throws the advertisments (he was paid to put in your morrning paper), in the creek by his moms house.
Ooh, a paranoid manifesto where everyone from the doctors, "plummers" and paperboys are all out to get you.

Too bad you can't start threads with these important observations any more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
The dealer cuts his coke (regardless how much HIS dealer cut it before), 1/2 OZ of grass is a gram short from the other guy, NBA ref gets in trouble W/ bookie (it comes to light after weird call), Horse races are fixed daily ( mostly single trainer juices a horse with a race in him, sometimes colusion), I could go on N on.
Ever consider they are all mad because a group of "plummers" and paperboys are out to get them? I'd be mad as well.


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Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
But you are a ****** not to think online pokersites are the most honest people in the world. Those guys who own the sites... ummm.... well, no need to know who they are, they must be straight arrrows.
Curious observation. Nobody says people who run online poker companies are the most honest in the world, just that as a crime a rigged RnG would be easy to catch and would have been caught by now.

Not all of us think they are criminals so dumb that they would be on the TV show C.O.P.S. If they are cheating their customers they are doing it in ways that would not be so easily caught. Maybe they have some paperboys help.



Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
Anyone ever see the movie casino? "The dealer watches the player, the floorman watches the dealer, the pit boss watches the 3 of them, and the eye in the sky watches everybody". That was in the old days when ownership could just go kill a thief.
Now-a-days, corprate owners can't put the fear of death in the potential crook, but there is also 24/7 gaming commision, ON SITE, at my local casino's. Even with all the layers of protection at the large casino's, a dealer was busted this year palming 1K chips out of the Bobby's Room game at the B. Who watches the server farms?
You have a very firm grip of reality. I like how you base your beliefs on fictional movie characters. Ever see Better Off Dead - there is a scene you would love featuring the quote "I want my two dollars!" That one pretty much ties in with your life beliefs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69 View Post
I have an outline in my head on how to cheat, and (in this outline), I would use the stats by Space to "prove" I'm on the up & up.
Are paperboys involved?

All the best.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
If a news article came out tomorow and said Full Tilt was caught rigging the game after someone physically entered their overseas database i bet you'd all switch over to pokerstars and/or refuse to believe it
That news comes out every day from paranoid riggedologists in different forms. Some involving paperboys involvement.

If it ever came out from a reliable source with verifiable data the reaction would be quite different. You know, like how the super users were caught.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:26 AM   #10799
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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This thread has run its course and should drift to the back. It was more fun when one could start a new "riigged" thread when things are gloom.
No. This forum became ridiculously crowded with threads rehashing the same tired arguments over and over and over again.

If people want to blow off steam after a bad beat, that's what Beats, Brags, and Variance is for. Although I don't know if they take kindly to rigged threads.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:04 AM   #10800
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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... that's what Beats, Brags, and Variance is for. Although I don't know if they take kindly to rigged threads.
If they don't they should send them here were there are suitable, safe, containment facilities.
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