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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 891 9.04%
Voters: 9857. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2009, 12:03 AM   #10726
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unistall_PS View Post
I got the last weeks hand histories like you suggested but it only shows from the 28th to the 31st. I went through the tournaments that were on there and none had the one that is in question, i know this because i remember the name of the other player i was talking to in chat. So what now?
I dunno, email support? see if they can help you?
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:11 PM   #10727
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Unistall_PS View Post
I got the last weeks hand histories like you suggested but it only shows from the 28th to the 31st. I went through the tournaments that were on there and none had the one that is in question, i know this because i remember the name of the other player i was talking to in chat. So what now?
What site is this for? I know on Poker Stars. you can set up some options to save the hand histories to your own hard drive. I have mine to save a years worth. They are pretty easy to pull up and read, although, without tracking software it is still tedious to go through your hand histories. I am currently going through mine to compile all of my bust out scenarios. I am sure that most other sites have a way for you to do this.
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Old 12-02-2009, 04:18 AM   #10728
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

he said it was on pokerstars
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:43 AM   #10729
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

If PokerStars were to open all hand histories on record to the public, could software be created that could use those HH's to determine future cards once the the holecards are delt, or once the flop is delt?
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:53 AM   #10730
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Very true. And it is not fair to think that all sites are running unethical operations just because a handful have been caught in the past.
There's no reason for it no.
But all types of business have some of them that try to bend the rules or seek the edge of what's allowed.
Now of course eg. a bakery has nothing to gain from tough management. A law firm is already something else. A financial business like a tax advisor is likely to seek the limits, hide funds and seek loopholes in laws.
Then there's poker sites, a type of business that tries to evade laws and supervision by being run out of small offshore safe havens like Malta or Gibraltar. Run by people enthousiastic about gambling who'd cheer when they take money from others. Where the core business is to get people to transfer money to them and then to slowly charge them rake so eventually all their money flows towards the site's accounts.
Normally people don't even trust a lawyer and make jokes about it, yet we're expected to never even question a pokersite's integrity ?
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:07 AM   #10731
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by RNauta View Post
we're expected to never even question a pokersite's integrity ?
Who has been telling you this?
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:57 AM   #10732
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by RNauta View Post
Then there's poker sites, a type of business that tries to evade laws and supervision by being run out of small offshore safe havens like Malta or Gibraltar. Run by people enthousiastic about gambling who'd cheer when they take money from others. Where the core business is to get people to transfer money to them and then to slowly charge them rake so eventually all their money flows towards the site's accounts.
Normally people don't even trust a lawyer and make jokes about it, yet we're expected to never even question a pokersite's integrity ?
Yep, those poker sites. They operate in lands without laws, just greedy bastards looking to steal money from people.

(check your facts)
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:22 AM   #10733
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by NoMeansNo View Post
If PokerStars were to open all hand histories on record to the public, could software be created that could use those HH's to determine future cards once the the holecards are delt, or once the flop is delt?
No, though a lot of flawed thinking is based on the belief of such patterns existing. Many already claim to see the patterns (yet for some reason have not exploited them to make a ton of money...). Some people try to sell such pattern recognition systems to naive players already, at least they are trying to cash in somehow.

Casinos use this to their advantage which is why they show past results of roulette on a nice colorful screen. Some gamblers will look at these screens and discern patterns to exploit in their mind. Of course others will bet something completely opposite based on the same past results.

In that case the house has the edge on every bet so it is a somewhat sinister way to encourage action from their customers as it appears they are just giving extra information (which is totally useless for that game with independent events).

Poker rooms have no such incentive as they make money from rake instead of whether a specific player wins or loses.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:43 AM   #10734
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
Yep, those poker sites. They operate in lands without laws, just greedy bastards looking to steal money from people.

(check your facts)
Dude, get off the bandwagon...What facts do you provide again?
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Old 12-02-2009, 04:17 PM   #10735
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by NoMeansNo View Post
If PokerStars were to open all hand histories on record to the public, could software be created that could use those HH's to determine future cards once the the holecards are delt, or once the flop is delt?
no, because the system they use to shuffle is not deterministic.
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Old 12-02-2009, 04:41 PM   #10736
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by RNauta View Post
Where the core business is to get people to transfer money to them and then to slowly charge them rake
Yeah, pretty unethical to make money off of a business.
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:18 PM   #10737
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Dude, get off the bandwagon...What facts do you provide again?
Simply refuting people who want to throw out baseless accusations. I can provide you plenty of facts though. About a million hands played, pretty even card distribution, all in EV within a reasonable range, profit. Of course, that's not going to convince anybody of anything, so why waste my time? Spadebidder is working with a billion hands and that's not convincing anybody, so why should I bother providing data that rigtards are just going to blow off with another crackpot theory?

If you're looking for facts though...

FACT: The Isle of Man and several other jurisdictions where the big sites are regulated, they have laws.

FACT: Nobody has ever proven anything wrong with the RNG of any major poker site.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:21 PM   #10738
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

FTP is so damn rigged.
Rags win every hand.
I can't remember a single legit hand that I lost to.
Every time it's the same pattern.

1) Idiot limps with rags.
2) Action flop and the money goes in.
3) Idiot scoops, as his rags have somehow turned into the nuts.

Good, solid play simply does not win at FTP.
You have to be willing to play trash if you want to win.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:50 PM   #10739
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
FTP is so damn rigged.
Rags win every hand.
I can't remember a single legit hand that I lost to.
Every time it's the same pattern.

1) Idiot limps with rags.
2) Action flop and the money goes in.
3) Idiot scoops, as his rags have somehow turned into the nuts.

Good, solid play simply does not win at FTP.
You have to be willing to play trash if you want to win.
Then play trash. And win. Millions.

That is if you want to win.

Yet you still keep on losing...

Maybe you want to lose.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:02 AM   #10740
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
FTP is so damn rigged.
Rags win every hand.
I can't remember a single legit hand that I lost to.
Every time it's the same pattern.

1) Idiot limps with rags.
2) Action flop and the money goes in.
3) Idiot scoops, as his rags have somehow turned into the nuts.

Good, solid play simply does not win at FTP.
You have to be willing to play trash if you want to win.
Thank you for backing up my last statement.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:15 AM   #10741
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Have either of you clowns played PLO8 extensively at FTP?
If not please stfu because you cannot relate to what I'm talking about.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:26 AM   #10742
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Have either of you clowns played PLO8 extensively at FTP?
If not please stfu because you cannot relate to what I'm talking about.
What difference does the game make if you know how the pattern mapper works. Just exploit it to make millions. Seriously, just make millions playing the hands you know win based on their software instead of posting all the time about your micro beats.

And yes I have played a hand of Omaha or two, or a million...

If I knew a roulette wheel was always going to land black I would bet on black. You seem to like betting on red then whining about it after even if you think you know its rigged for black. I am not even arguing whether it is rigged or not, just that you should exploit your secret information for profit. Why don't you? Just seems like all that makes you is a standard poor riggedologist who is also quite stupid.

Hint, always bet on black.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:32 AM   #10743
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Do you encourage cheating Monteroy?
You always advise to exploit the system and win millions.
Is this how you maintain your winrate - by exploiting the system?
You always sounded like a scam artist to me.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:39 AM   #10744
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The biggest problem I see with this debate is how the sites react to public opinion.
The non-scientific poll on this internet poker site has 37% of people responding saying they think it might be rigged. This is a poll among people that hang out on a internet poker forum. I would have to guess if a pro pollster ran a survey of people who have played poker over the last 12 months for actual money, and have yet to play online,
50+% would say they don't play online because of fear of being cheated. That is a pretty massive potential customer pool if you ask me.

To try to tap into this market, I would propose the following to management:

Hire a respected, third party firm to write a program that Replaces player screen names with a newly assigned player ID number. Replace existing HH # W/ new number, and remove or change (whichever easier) table name to the hand histories, replacing dates with some kind of sequince number. This should pretty much keep 99% of players screen names private. Where stakes are high enough that the player pool is small, or the player could be Identified by shear volume, remove those accounts from the study.

Have a third party (separate from the company that wrote the HH converstion) to audit the player accounts.

Allow public access to whole account HHs.

If the RNG is random, no one could create workable predictive software.

If there is a new account boomswitch, it could be determined.

If there is a winning player doomswitch, it would be uncovered.

If there were a way to put in deposit/withdraw/bonus markers into the account history folder all other rigologist theories could be proven/ disproven.

This could probably only be done for cash and SNG ( players could get ID'd by MTT scores), but by not having dates on the account origin or the HH's, removing high stakes from public access, as well as the few true volume sicko's, Whole account histories could be reveiwed with the players remaing anonymous.

It would probably cost a couple of million bucks to basically prove your legitimacy to tens of millions of potential customers.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:55 AM   #10745
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Nice post Peetar, and the absence of any meaningful study as you suggest is not an encouraging sign.

Is it really that hard to believe that sites may not be content with taking just the rake.
Bookies in Vegas don't make most of their money off the juice. They make money by setting and maintaining a line, in which most of the bets will be on the losing side.
I think something similar may be happening in online poker.
With the games drying up, and rake profits shrinking, is it that hard to believe maybe they would try something to get profits back up to where they previously were?
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:57 AM   #10746
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

lol
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:05 AM   #10747
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Do you encourage cheating Monteroy?
You always advise to exploit the system and win millions.
Is this how you maintain your winrate - by exploiting the system?
You always sounded like a scam artist to me.

If you have any doubts about whether it is cheating write the sites. Tell Tilt and other site you know how to predict cards and can pattern map hands and is it ok if you use that information when playing.

I highly doubt any of the rooms will tell you that using such secret powers is a violation of their rules.

So yes, I am happy to encourage you to do this behavior to make millions, and since the rooms themselves will tell you that using special powers is not a rules violation it has the benefit of not being cheating.

How do I maintain my winrate? I do it in a much goofier manner than you do. I actually work on my game, make observations and notes on my opponents and make a lot of adjustments as needed. I do not actually use any super powers on predicting cards other than knowing the basic odds and EVs of situations.

If you want to accuse me of winning as I do because I use super prediction powers go for it. Feel free to write the sites saying you want to report someone using super powers to exploit the system to make millions. Their responses to that should be interesting.

Reality is not always pretty. You are just an emotional, losing micro stakes player. Either do real things to change that or just continue to be the source of humor. I hope you choose the latter.

All the best.
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:18 AM   #10748
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

It's funny what these shills will assume to try to discredit people.
If being up 15K over the last half year at PLO8 $100 and above is a losing microstakes player, I would love to see your numbers.

Is it really that hard to believe that sites may not be content with taking just the rake.
Bookies in Vegas don't make most of their money off the juice. They make money by setting and maintaining a line, in which most of the bets will be on the losing side.
I think something similar may be happening in online poker.
With the games drying up, and rake profits shrinking, is it that hard to believe maybe they would try something to get profits back up to where they previously were?
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:44 AM   #10749
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Bookies in Vegas don't make most of their money off the juice. They make money by setting and maintaining a line, in which most of the bets will be on the losing side.
[ ] understands bookmaking

lol

Last edited by spadebidder; 12-03-2009 at 02:47 AM. Reason: and another LOL, just reading it
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:44 AM   #10750
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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[ ] understands bookmaking
He needs to take a more balanced view.
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