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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-30-2009, 03:51 PM   #1051
strops
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Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, you have got to find the following heads-up tourney amusing. Note the player comments during.



Hand #1
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t1500 M = 50
BTN/SB: t1500 M = 50

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with 8 7
BTN/SB raises to t60, Hero calls t40

Flop: (t120) 7 3 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t50, Hero raises to t100, BTN/SB calls t50

Turn: (t320) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets t320, BTN/SB folds

Final Pot: t320
Hero wins t320


Hand #2
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): t1660 M = 55.33
BB: t1340 M = 44.67

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with A K
Hero raises to t40, BB raises to t1340 all in, Hero calls t1300, BB says "lol"

Flop: (t2680) 5 Q T

Turn: (t2680) 3
BB says "wow"

River: (t2680) 8
BB says "sweet"

Final Pot: t2680
Hero shows A K (Ace King high)
BB shows A Q (a flush, Ace high)
BB wins t2680


Hand #3
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t320 M = 10.67
BTN/SB: t2680 M = 89.33

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with 5 A
Hero says "I expected that fully", BTN/SB calls t10, Hero raises to t320 all in, BTN/SB says "i did not", 1 fold

Final Pot: t40
Hero wins t40


Hand #4
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): t340 M = 11.33
BB: t2660 M = 88.67

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with 2 7
Hero says "it's full tilt", 1 fold

Final Pot: t20
BB wins t20


Hand #5
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t330 M = 11
BTN/SB: t2670 M = 89

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with T J
BTN/SB calls t10, Hero checks

Flop: (t40) 4 8 T (2 players)
Hero bets t100, BTN/SB raises to t2650 all in, Hero calls t210 all in

Turn: (t660) 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t660) Q (2 players - 2 are all in)
BTN/SB says "now that i expected fully"

Final Pot: t660
Hero shows T J (two pair, Tens and Fours)
BTN/SB shows 8 2 (two pair, Eights and Fours)
Hero wins t660


Hand #6
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): t660 M = 22
BB: t2340 M = 78

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with 5 6
Hero calls t10, BB says "why else would i hit a pair", BB checks

Flop: (t40) A J 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t20, BB folds

Final Pot: t40
Hero wins t40


Hand #7
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t680 M = 22.67
BTN/SB: t2320 M = 77.33

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with Q 3
BTN/SB raises to t40, Hero calls t20

Flop: (t80) J J A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t60, Hero folds

Final Pot: t80
BTN/SB wins t80


Hand #8
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): t640 M = 21.33
BB: t2360 M = 78.67

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with K A
Hero raises to t40, BB raises to t2360 all in, Hero calls t600 all in

Flop: (t1280) 3 6 A
BB says "hahahahaha"

Turn: (t1280) 8

River: (t1280) A
BB says "wow", Hero says "full tilt"

Final Pot: t1280
Hero shows K A (three of a kind, Aces)
BB shows K K (two pair, Aces and Kings)
Hero wins t1280


Hand #9
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t1280 M = 42.67
BTN/SB: t1720 M = 57.33

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with K K
BTN/SB calls t10, Hero raises to t60, BTN/SB says "what a joke", BTN/SB raises to t1720 all in, Hero calls t1220 all in

Flop: (t2560) Q 9 A
BTN/SB says "hahahahahaha", Hero says "watch this"

Turn: (t2560) T

River: (t2560) 7
Hero says "yep", BTN/SB says "hahahahahaha"

Final Pot: t2560
Hero shows K K (a pair of Kings)
BTN/SB shows 2 A (a pair of Aces)
BTN/SB wins t2560
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:56 PM   #1052
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Re: Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

ur an idiot

/thread
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:58 PM   #1053
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Re: Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

Not amused, I guess.
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:59 PM   #1054
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Re: Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

wtf. gtfo.
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:23 PM   #1055
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Re: Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

wtf is this
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:27 PM   #1056
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Re: Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

Hero plays bad.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:50 PM   #1057
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Re: Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Hero plays bad.
Barely even begins to describe it.
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:51 PM   #1058
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

zomgsofreakingroggedobv
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Old 03-30-2009, 11:25 PM   #1059
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Re: Why people think Full Tilt is rigged

Quote:
Originally Posted by strops View Post
Hand #9
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t1280 M = 42.67
BTN/SB: t1720 M = 57.33

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with K K
BTN/SB calls t10, Hero raises to t60, BTN/SB says "what a joke", BTN/SB raises to t1720 all in, Hero calls t1220 all in

Flop: (t2560) Q 9 A
BTN/SB says "hahahahahaha", Hero says "watch this"

Turn: (t2560) T

River: (t2560) 7
Hero says "yep", BTN/SB says "hahahahahaha"

Final Pot: t2560
Hero shows K K (a pair of Kings)
BTN/SB shows 2 A (a pair of Aces)
BTN/SB wins t2560
So what are we watching here, exactly? You "yep" at the end throws it off.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:20 AM   #1060
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

To all who question site fairness @ ft-stars or wherever, and in turn are rebuffed by the following:

''hey that's poker''

''your just a bad player, learn to play''

'' do you really think that a multimilliuon dollar company would risk that''

or whatever the latest poker room shill on 2 plus 2 spews, no your not crazy for thinking that being 1-2-3 outed on a consitent basis is abnormal.


the sites of course are higly leveraged to ensuring that there are as many players a possible playing, if your bankroll is short there is a very strong chance that you will run good, that you will hit your 3 outer, that you will hit your gutshot....etc. If your fully bankrolled for that specific limit, then you can be sacrifcied. It's simply business, unfair yes, but....


The standard shill response to this will be '' it's all controlled by an RNG'' as if a legimtate RNG can't have something introduced to determine a favoured event ( I.E. skewing the randomness of the cards).


Anyway, to anyone that reads this and thinks, ''Is this all in mind'' no it's not all in your mind. There is a very strong posibility that this happens at low limits.


But to prove it yourself once and for all, get a Poker Database, and play hands, and looks at the results for yourself > I did this, and once I collected the necessary data, the statistics were skewed severly enough that I stopped playing on-line.

Having said that, the poker discussions on here are excellent, and the site is also first rate, but the Poker is Rigged area is too be avoided on this site, as their are numerous people on here who have a vested interest to berate posters of that opinion.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:49 AM   #1061
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

It's back to the SHILLS.
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:17 AM   #1062
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307 View Post
or whatever the latest poker room shill on 2 plus 2 spews, no your not crazy
elohel
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:20 AM   #1063
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307 View Post
But to prove it yourself once and for all, get a Poker Database, and play hands, and looks at the results for yourself > I did this, and once I collected the necessary data, the statistics were skewed severly enough that I stopped playing on-line.
Fantastic! Someone can finally break the case wide open. So when are you posting it?
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:51 AM   #1064
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Over/under of hands played? I'll start at 4,000.
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:55 AM   #1065
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Over/under of 307 spewing off big words that will make him sound knowledgable, such as "database," without having done a single proactive thing to prove his cause?
fyp
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:01 AM   #1066
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I don't actually think he's going to POST it.

Just speculating.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:10 AM   #1067
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Well clearly. I was just below my fyp quota for the day so I forced it a little.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:11 AM   #1068
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
See, I can't say that I think these sites are rigged, but I will say they need to be regulated by a gaming commission....
There are already good commisions in Canada, Malta and the IOM IMO.

Don't see that we need another - too many cooks and all that.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:17 AM   #1069
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuyafox View Post
50K is a small sample,i just suspect that the variace at ftp is much higher than stars.there's three possibilities:
[ X ] 1.i am a fish and stars is helping me win consistently.
[ ] 2.i am a winner and ftp is helping its fish so i get much more bad beats and coolers than my fair share so i am the victim of its high variance.
[ ] 3.they are completely the same and clean.it's just normal variance,so when i play 50000k(is this enough?) hands,the equity curves should look the same.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:24 AM   #1070
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307 View Post
To all who question site fairness @ ft-stars or wherever, and in turn are rebuffed by the following:

''hey that's poker''

''your just a bad player, learn to play''

'' do you really think that a multimilliuon dollar company would risk that''

or whatever the latest poker room shill on 2 plus 2 spews, no your not crazy for thinking that being 1-2-3 outed on a consitent basis is abnormal.
[ ] New member with something interesting to say
[ x ] Long term rigtard with shiny new gimmick account.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:25 AM   #1071
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
I don't actually think he's going to POST it.

Just speculating.
Sigh.

Why are people here so cynical?
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:32 AM   #1072
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307 View Post
the sites of course are higly leveraged to ensuring that there are as many players a possible playing, if your bankroll is short there is a very strong chance that you will run good, that you will hit your 3 outer, that you will hit your gutshot....etc. If your fully bankrolled for that specific limit, then you can be sacrifcied. It's simply business, unfair yes, but....
I think he has a point here. Never again will I play fully bankrolled for the limits. I am going to keep my BR small and caaassshh man.

Last edited by Rek; 03-31-2009 at 04:32 AM. Reason: I've always wanted a winning system.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:43 AM   #1073
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmenotone View Post
I used to think it was rigged (still do for some player and I will never play them) but you gotta pay your dues...

Can't just be part of the 9% of winning players just because. It took me a while and lots of cash to get here
but now I can beat almost anyone I play...
great post, i actually enjoyed this one

Quote:
Originally Posted by strops View Post


Hand #9
Full Tilt Poker $2 + $0.15 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): t1280 M = 42.67
BTN/SB: t1720 M = 57.33

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with K K
BTN/SB calls t10, Hero raises to t60, BTN/SB says "what a joke", BTN/SB raises to t1720 all in, Hero calls t1220 all in

Flop: (t2560) Q 9 A
BTN/SB says "hahahahahaha", Hero says "watch this"

Turn: (t2560) T

River: (t2560) 7
Hero says "yep", BTN/SB says "hahahahahaha"

Final Pot: t2560
Hero shows K K (a pair of Kings)
BTN/SB shows 2 A (a pair of Aces)
BTN/SB wins t2560
you cant be serious (see below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Hero plays bad.
to the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Barely even begins to describe it.
even closer to the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by 307 View Post


the sites of course are higly leveraged to ensuring that there are as many players a possible playing, if your bankroll is short there is a very strong chance that you will run good, that you will hit your 3 outer, that you will hit your gutshot....etc. If your fully bankrolled for that specific limit, then you can be sacrifcied. It's simply business, unfair yes, but....


But to prove it yourself once and for all, get a Poker Database, and play hands, and looks at the results for yourself > I did this, and once I collected the necessary data, the statistics were skewed severly enough that I stopped playing on-line.
wowzer

well to the first bolded part, explain why there are so so many bustos in 4l and bbv then
to the second, you do realise that probably 95% of the people on this forum both have a database and review results regularly
also if you have seen the skewed statistics, why not point them out for the rest of us that cant see them



I used to think that tourneys were programmed to eliminate shortstack, when i first started playing alot a couple of years ago
then i came to the stunning realization that a shortstack can only survive so many 80/20 hands before getting knocked out (i mean zomg one in five times the shortstack has to leave the table - so if the shortstack survives six allins then gets felted, well zomg stunning...)

i really hate to bash rigtards, because i know that most of it is probably their frustration over playing a losing game
but i wish they would spend the time they use to come up with theories, to actually read a book or post a few hands



i will say if someone is on the fence, regarding riggedness, and they play tourneys - start playing some cash games
donkaments (esp esp turbos), force action at such a pace, that you are sure to see strange hands
this is no diff than in my local casino though
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:03 AM   #1074
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Offline poker is rigged as well.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:15 AM   #1075
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

The only person who has posted his database results with skewed statistics turned out to be correct - there was something wrong.



His PokerTracker was lacking a patch that prevented erroneous data from being presented.
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