Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,449 34.95%
No 5,524 55.98%
Undecided 895 9.07%
Voters: 9868. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2009, 08:27 PM   #1026
Mitch Evans
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,633
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

The Narcissist: "I am a great player. If I lose, it must be rigged."
Everyone Else: "If I lose, I must be a losing player; If I win, I must be a winning player."

Narcissist's Theory of Variance: "If I run hot, I am merely running at the mean for my expert level. If I lose a pot once in a while, that's just variance. If I run bad, it's rigged."
Mitch Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:34 PM   #1027
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

A guy at my (online) table just told me that the site determines which player's turn it is to win.

Then he said he lost so many hands he was supposed to win.

I said "wtf does that mean? you know it's a 5 card game, right?"

he said QQ beat his KK

and I said "QQQ > KK. What's the problem there? Don't you know hand rankings?"

he said "things that happen online don't happen live" (which is bull****, obviously.)

I just asked "if you know it's rigged, why are you playing?"

he just blew me off at that point, as if I couldn't understand. so unless he was leveling me (and based on his play I had seen, I doubt it...) I found it fairly funny that he thought I was ignorant or something.
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:38 PM   #1028
excession
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,560
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

LOL this is a 'great debate' in the same way that the truth of evolution is a great debate.

On one side the people who have a clue what they are talking about; on the other a large number of ignorant people who wouldn't know maths or science if it smacked them over the head...
excession is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 08:56 PM   #1029
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,159
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

The great "Poker is rigged debate" should be The "Great" "Poker is rigged" debate.

Or just removing "great" entirely would work too.
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:03 PM   #1030
jukofyork
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
jukofyork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Trollstopia, UK
Posts: 11,614
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch Evans View Post
The Narcissist: "I am a great player. If I lose, it must be rigged."
Everyone Else: "If I lose, I must be a losing player; If I win, I must be a winning player."

Narcissist's Theory of Variance: "If I run hot, I am merely running at the mean for my expert level. If I lose a pot once in a while, that's just variance. If I run bad, it's rigged."
Every rigtard should have this tattooed onto their eyelids IMO or at least repeat it 3 times before they go to bed each night.

Juk
jukofyork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 09:05 PM   #1031
gtpitch
making sick bumps
 
gtpitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: posting topless
Posts: 33,706
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

has anyone said all of them yet?
gtpitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 12:20 AM   #1032
yuyafox
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 378
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
From Full Tilt's perspective you are clearly a losing player, so would it not fit that they would rig it to help you based on your losing patterns?

At least that is one of the common rigged beliefs, that they rig it to help losing players. You are one on Full Tilt.

The only other choice is that they are targeting you. Did you do something to incur Full Tilt's wrath to mess your .05/.10 NL buy in results? You must be fairly important to merit such attention.

Long story short, you are interpreting a story from your results and making assumptions of conditions that make no sense to actually exist.

Aside from standard variance, you may have just gone against worse opponents on Stars. You may have played on Stars at better times ( in terms of relative competition). You may have been a bit luckier on Stars.

Realistically the odds of one of these or other factors being the cause of your results is much higher then any massive conspiracy to rig micro stakes games, particularly against you on Full Tilt.

There is no logical rigged theory that can be formed based on your specific results that preclude you from being a target of a massive conspiracy. You are free to create any beliefs you like, however, no offense, but I doubt you matter that much, none of us do.

Additionally, I cannot prove FT is not rigged to your satisfaction, just like you cannot prove that you are not a Lizard Person to my satisfaction. Asking to disprove a negative is flawed.




There are people who have basically the exact same beliefs you have, except switch Full Tilt and Pokerstars. So yeah, you are saying the same coin is rigged to land heads while others say tails, but in the end you will likely agree something is wrong with the coin...

Seriously, either get a more logical grasp of the reality of the situation or continue to indulge in bizarre fantasies. One way will be a path for you to improve your game, the other a way to rationalize your bad results without any improvement.

I know what your opponents would prefer you choose.

All the best.
I didn't claim it is rigged and i believe that even if it is rigged in some extent,people with enough skills should still win money.

just from my own experiece,i get much more bad beats and coolers at ftp and my equity curve at ftp looks like i was a complete fish who doesn't have any skill and just play by luck.when i get lucky i win money no matter how bad i play and vice versa.

at stars,i had more than 6 buyins downswing too,but when i lose i know most of time i playe bad and when i play good,i usually win.

50K is a small sample,i just suspect that the variace at ftp is much higher than stars.there's three possibilities:
1.i am a fish and stars is helping me win consistently.
2.i am a winner and ftp is helping its fish so i get much more bad beats and coolers than my fair share so i am the victim of its high variance.
3.they are completely the same and clean.it's just normal variance,so when i play 50000k(is this enough?) hands,the equity curves should look the same.
yuyafox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 12:44 AM   #1033
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,159
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I'd suggest to everyone to take a look at the chart in The Mathematics of Poker on page 31.
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:08 AM   #1034
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
I found it fairly funny that he thought I was ignorant or something.
To be fair you can't blame him for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuyafox View Post
3.they are completely the same and clean.it's just normal variance but different sites play different due to opposition, software and a player's own preferences.
4. I am such a rigtard that when I play FTP I cannot play my A game because my tin foil hat is not protecting me against the conspiracy against me.
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:09 AM   #1035
hitmenotone
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 406
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I used to think it was rigged (still do for some player and I will never play them) but you gotta pay your dues...

Can't just be part of the 9% of winning players just because. It took me a while and lots of cash to get here
but now I can beat almost anyone I play...
hitmenotone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 05:29 AM   #1036
hazillow
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 329
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

guys i just want to know if this is rigged or not i'm worried about my 37$ .05/.1 limit BR on Stars
hazillow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 07:48 AM   #1037
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazillow View Post
guys i just want to know if this is rigged or not i'm worried about my 37$ .05/.1 limit BR on Stars
just don't cash out and you'll be fine.
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 09:02 AM   #1038
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,240
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuyafox View Post
I didn't claim it is rigged and i believe that even if it is rigged in some extent,people with enough skills should still win money.

just from my own experiece,i get much more bad beats and coolers at ftp and my equity curve at ftp looks like i was a complete fish who doesn't have any skill and just play by luck.when i get lucky i win money no matter how bad i play and vice versa.
Of course you are claiming it is rigged. You are just using the very common "I am not saying it is rigged, but..." approach to make it seem like you are not a standard rigtard, which is ironically enough - standard.

Next time you run bad make a note of the color shirt you are wearing or what you ate that day. You may find that too is the source of the rigging. That is basically the approach you are using anyway, may as well have fun with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yuyafox View Post
at stars,i had more than 6 buyins downswing too,but when i lose i know most of time i playe bad and when i play good,i usually win.
Long term this is generally the case for most people in any activity, and in fact it should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuyafox View Post
50K is a small sample,i just suspect that the variace at ftp is much higher than stars.there's three possibilities:
1.i am a fish and stars is helping me win consistently.
2.i am a winner and ftp is helping its fish so i get much more bad beats and coolers than my fair share so i am the victim of its high variance.
3.they are completely the same and clean.it's just normal variance,so when i play 50000k(is this enough?) hands,the equity curves should look the same.
The curves will not always be the same. You may like the software at one site better then other and play more comfortably as a result. You may run hot on one site and cold on the other. You may play better on one site because for whatever reason you think you do better on that site (so you play better to prove it to yourself).

Stop looking at your curves which are both within your expected results and assuming that something sinister is at work behind the scenes. Again, I am sorry to inform you that you do not merit any special attention, either good or bad, in terms of results from the sites.

Either become a full blown rigtard (which seems to make them feel better anyway) or accept logic and reality and work on your game. Stop being the rigtard who says he is not really a rigtard but plays one on TV. Pick a side already.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 10:16 AM   #1039
jukofyork
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
jukofyork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Trollstopia, UK
Posts: 11,614
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Of course you are claiming it is rigged. You are just using the very common "I am not saying it is rigged, but..." approach to make it seem like you are not a standard rigtard, which is ironically enough - standard.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the new generation of rigtards decide to phrase their posts. Obviously "It's rigged because I say so" and "I am not saying it is rigged, but..." will still be staples, but sooner or later one of them is gonna come up with something new... Perhaps "3rd level" rigtardedness will involve mocking the lesser rigtards? I hope so.

Juk
jukofyork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 04:04 PM   #1040
pattye111
grinder
 
pattye111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 459
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I actually can't believe there is a thread on this.
pattye111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 07:48 PM   #1041
Bobo Fett
Carpe Diem
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 52,455
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by pattye111 View Post
I actually can't believe there are 56,376 threads on this.
FYP.

But not any more, hopefully. Unless Mike Haven objects, I plan on merging them all in here. Until we get one with some actual evidence, anyway.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 01:56 PM   #1042
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

cross post from B&M Forum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Such A Card View Post
I thought the "online poker is rigged" discussions on two plus two were just a joke, but....

Tonight at the casino they start up with an "online poker is rigged" discussion. The dealer is in on it talking about this hand he saw. One guy to my left says he paid $450 for some software that tracks your hands and after 2000 hands or so it can predict what cards will be dealt because all the poker sites use a random number generator which is exploitable. Now if they would only make one of those predictors for the state lottery....
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaredoChris View Post
one night in wild live game after a certain player got rivered for the 3rd time by a lesser hand he finally snaps and berates the dealer, asking why is he constantly getting shafted on the river. Then he says, "I should just play online, you don't see that kind of stuff".

I've yet to ask if he was serious or not. But I think he was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidsJH View Post
Funny thread =)

I played in Vancouver @ a 1-2 table, and this guy tries to convince the table to read the fine print of poker sites. He said that he read it himself where fulltilt says that they are allowed to hold back 2 cards from a deck and give it to anyone in order to create more action... WTF?

=)
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 05:48 PM   #1043
meow_meow
veteran
 
meow_meow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,166
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Rigtards are good for online poker.
Stop trying to talk them out of it at the tables please.
meow_meow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:49 PM   #1044
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I disagree based on this logic
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
People who understand have an interest in letting other people understand. Because it's good for business.

It's the people who don't understand that are bad for business.
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:58 PM   #1045
Alzke
temp-banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 566
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

do you work for FTP or stars, monteroy ?

your posting history and attitude towards this issue are illuminating
Alzke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 07:00 PM   #1046
Mitch Evans
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,633
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alzke View Post
do you work for FTP or stars, monteroy ?

your posting history and attitude towards this issue are illuminating
Yeah. It illuminates logic.
Mitch Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 08:52 PM   #1047
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,159
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
I disagree based on this logic
Just so it's clear, that post was a level to make fun of the lack of context with the word "understand". I posted it in the context that "understanding" meant not being a complete ****** (or, rather, rigtard), i.e. not believing that online poker is rigged.

Of course I might've just leveled myself.
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 09:20 PM   #1048
Got Nutz?
veteran
 
Got Nutz?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Running out ur back door!
Posts: 2,792
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

I have not reads the thread but of all the "Great" debates riggtardness is not one of them
Got Nutz? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 01:40 AM   #1049
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alzke View Post
do you work for FTP or stars, monteroy ?

your posting history and attitude towards this issue are illuminating
I haven't looked at your posts, but based on this alone your ******ry is epic.
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 01:55 AM   #1050
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Of course I might've just leveled myself.
sick level imo
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive