Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2009, 01:07 AM   #10151
LetsGambool
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,578
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
It's definitely detectable by the individual losing player but he is getting a boost and has no reason to question it. And if he becomes a rigtard for losing then his actual stats will automatically contradict him. I elaborated in later posts, and he would get top 5% hands at 4 SD greater than expected in a 100K sample, or 13 SD greater in a 1 million hand sample. I hope there aren't many losing players with a 1 million hand sample. But the winning players we took the hands from would not have a significant offset because of the dilution, or even a significant effect on their overall win rate.
Losing players wont have million hand samples, but losing players that later improved into winning players might have million hand samples.

Is it possible to test the null hypothesis hand distribution as losing player=hand distribution as a winning player for those players as a whole.

My first thoughts are that this is testable, but very, very difficult
LetsGambool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 02:12 AM   #10152
Skokky
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Batemans Bay and Baulko
Posts: 30
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
How does this allow the site to make more money?

You should also think about why the big stack in an MTT might be expected to win more all-in confrontations, on average. As stacks get smaller, shoving ranges get wider. That's basic tournament strategy, and it could easily result in a skew to the big stack, with a completely honest deal. The big stack's calling range is going to be narrower than the short stack's shoving range, on average. This should be true even with players who understand the concept of "effective" stack sizes. And the short stack will face multiple larger stacks at the table, by definition. Think.
The site makes more money cos the loser has to reload derrr.

And your justification is still hiding the fact that bigger stacks are winning more all ins than me calling with underdog hands they should lose with 70% but win 63%.
Stars all ins with bigger stacks in non cash games needs to be investigated.
Skokky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 03:14 AM   #10153
Onetwobit
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: miami, fl
Posts: 2,263
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

i wonder what the % of yes's are loosing players
Onetwobit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 11:07 AM   #10154
SwedishMedusa
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 390
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skokky View Post
Stars all ins with bigger stacks in non cash games needs to be investigated.
ok so investigate then? you can order your hands from ps and then run them in HEM or PT. post graph. this is not something you need an audit firm or something to do.
SwedishMedusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 12:07 PM   #10155
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skokky View Post
The site makes more money cos the loser has to reload derrr.

And your justification is still hiding the fact that bigger stacks are winning more all ins than me calling with underdog hands they should lose with 70% but win 63%.
Stars all ins with bigger stacks in non cash games needs to be investigated.
I already suggested you contact this fellow via PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ufnacehole View Post
Short stack always has an edge if they push all in
After all, he also sees patterns, but his are different, so maybe he can help you understand why your memory pattern mapper is off. Maybe you can both agree that medium stacks are the real way to go.


Sites make money on rake. Your "they make money if people reload theory" is a funny one. Why not email a site and ask them if they would be happy if you deposited $10 a day every day for a year and played a few hands of micro stakes each day.

I'm sure they will be thrilled paying hundreds a year in transaction costs for your $1 in rake they are making. At least in your world they would be.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 12:21 PM   #10156
SwedishMedusa
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 390
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

it is also interesting how when it comes to cash games the theory is that the fish need to have the money last longer, while for tournaments they are to bust out faster so that they buy into another tourney faster, thus burning their money quicker.
SwedishMedusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 12:45 PM   #10157
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
it is also interesting how when it comes to cash games the theory is that the fish need to have the money last longer, while for tournaments they are to bust out faster so that they buy into another tourney faster, thus burning their money quicker.
Selective memory of riggedologist theories as with enough of a riggedologist sample size one can find pretty much every theory has someone that believes it is rigged in exactly the opposite manner.

The only thing all have in common is that they are never proven. One thing most have in common is that it involves micro stakes. Also, most riggedologists have no concept of basic math let alone real statistical analytical abilities.

Riggedologists are rigged in a way. Go figure.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 01:46 PM   #10158
CaliStyle
See my staking thread
 
CaliStyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,355
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I do not believe internet poker is rigged however I believe the sites greatly benefit from moving tournaments along as quickly as possible. I think there could possibly be some correlation with the hands you get and the possible action they may result from if you play those hands with other players. This would create more all-in situations in tournaments, more rake in cash games, and also dominated hands often times knocking out hands that were dominating them. I think cash wise for these sites they would have a lot to gain by having there programmers do this and there is no real way to prove this unless you personally are part of the board that makes the decisions on what to put in the software or the programmers themselves.

The random generators may not be as random as in a casino and it would be hard to do that because these generators were programmed and cannot be as random as a regular deck of cards. Good players are still going to beat the game in the long run. I think super users are a very rare thing and to keep that secret hidden for such a long time is very hard as the absolute poker scandal seemed to be easily uncovered after some research. I think there is some chance that PS and FTP are using "action hand" and "move tourney along" generators. This could account for your 20 losing streaks with sets and 20 winning streaks catching that inside straight.
CaliStyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 02:44 PM   #10159
AaronT
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 459
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
The random generators may not be as random as in a casino and it would be hard to do that because these generators were programmed and cannot be as random as a regular deck of cards.
Virtual decks of cards are shuffled to a greater degree of randomness then physical cards. Why you would assert that they cannot be is beyond me. Do some research on chaos theory and RNGs and get back to us.
AaronT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 02:56 PM   #10160
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
I do not believe internet poker is rigged
OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
however I believe the sites greatly benefit from moving tournaments along as quickly as possible.
This means you believe it is rigged.

Sites can make tournies run faster in a much simpler way - run more turbo tournaments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
I think there could possibly be some correlation with the hands you get and the possible action they may result from if you play those hands with other players. This would create more all-in situations in tournaments, more rake in cash games, and also dominated hands often times knocking out hands that were dominating them.
This means you believe it is rigged.

It also is a made up theory that would be easily caught if actually true.

Go with Superbots in future - much harder to catch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
I think cash wise for these sites they would have a lot to gain by having there programmers do this and there is no real way to prove this unless you personally are part of the board that makes the decisions on what to put in the software or the programmers themselves.

This means you believe it is rigged.

This also means you believe that all of these programmers who programmed these evil things for all of the sites (many of which are now defunct) have never told of their dark secret. Even the ones that are out of work.

Programmers - loyal till death.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
The random generators may not be as random as in a casino and it would be hard to do that because these generators were programmed and cannot be as random as a regular deck of cards.
This means you believe it is rigged.

It also means you like typing as you think of words.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
Good players are still going to beat the game in the long run. I think super users are a very rare thing and to keep that secret hidden for such a long time is very hard as the absolute poker scandal seemed to be easily uncovered after some research.
And yet none of the programmers have ever spoken yet about all of the criminal activity they have seen first hand. To the death they keep this dark secret.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
I think there is some chance that PS and FTP are using "action hand" and "move tourney along" generators.
This means you believe it is rigged.

It also means you do not concern yourself with matters like "would this rigging even make the site money?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
This could account for your 20 losing streaks with sets and 20 winning streaks catching that inside straight.
This means you believe it is rigged.

It also means you think the sites would choose to rig it in the easiest ways ever to catch. While also making no extra money.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle View Post
I do not believe internet poker is rigged
OK.

All the best.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 04:16 PM   #10161
kmpk
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 19
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Monteroy, are you really qualified to comment on this subject? All you ever seem to say is "they wouldn't do it" and "if they did it would be obvious".

I am not sure how you can make either of those claims with the certainty that you seem to attach to them.

Can you say with 100% certainty that the sites do not manipulate things in anyway?

I only ask because you seem a very strange person. People come here with concerns and you instantly ridicule them, call them names and belittle them without anything substantial to back up your claims. If you are in a position to use facts and statistics to highlight your opinion why not use those facts and statistics. I assume that you have done a great deal of work yourself in order to come to your conclusions. I understand that this is your passion, it's nice that you have something in your life which you feel is this important, but I don't think your contributions really help.

There are thousands of people who will not play online because they feel it is rigged. Because of these people and also for our own sakes we should be encouraging pokersites to open themselves up for regular inspections, maybe by a team put together on 2+2. Let them have an agreeable number of hand histories, from everyone, and audit them.
kmpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 05:36 PM   #10162
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
Monteroy, are you really qualified to comment on this subject? All you ever seem to say is "they wouldn't do it" and "if they did it would be obvious".
People with extreme expertise in this area have gone into mind numbing, boring detail why it would not be possible or practical and that changes not a single mind either. Riggedologists still think they magically see undetectable patterns that rigorous statistical analysis cannot find.

I just mention the common sense aspect and have fun with paranoid people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
Can you say with 100% certainty that the sites do not manipulate things in anyway?
I have said many times I can not prove that superbots or Lizard People do not exist. Similarly I cannot disprove the negative statement you are asking, because that is not how "proof" works.

I can say with 100% certainty that if any riggedologist every actually proved a single thing they claim is happening, I would be the first to support them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
I only ask because you seem a very strange person.
Lizard People effect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
People come here with concerns and you instantly ridicule them, call them names and belittle them without anything substantial to back up your claims.
Usually I quote them so their words and ideas can speak for themselves. I praised the guy who said it was mafia from Russia and Israel for promoting unity between nations, so it's not all negative.




Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
If you are in a position to use facts and statistics to highlight your opinion why not use those facts and statistics.
Spadebidder and others have tried. Just look through this thread for dozens of those hopeless conversations they have had with facts and statistics and theory vs riggedologist "I knows what I sees" beliefs.

I don't try to pretend to be that nice to actually educate riggedologists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
I assume that you have done a great deal of work yourself in order to come to your conclusions. I understand that this is your passion, it's nice that you have something in your life which you feel is this important, but I don't think your contributions really help.
I never claimed I ever tried to genuinely help riggedologists understand the flaws in their thinking, though often times there is genuine advice in my mocking posts.

Others have genuinely tried to help riggedologists by explaining their logic errors and reasoning flaws. Yeah, that worked.

I'll stick with the fun plan.




Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
There are thousands of people who will not play online because they feel it is rigged.
Tons of people will still not use banking machines. Some will not use banks.

People can be paranoid however they choose, that is their right.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
Because of these people and also for our own sakes we should be encouraging pokersites to open themselves up for regular inspections, maybe by a team put together on 2+2. Let them have an agreeable number of hand histories, from everyone, and audit them.
This is not a social service. If these beliefs were deep genuine major concerns for the market as a whole then the sites would makle it their number one issue to talk about and advertise.

Lots of new players like freerolls and free money more than RnG inspection teams.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 08:06 PM   #10163
solucky
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,480
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpk View Post
Monteroy, are you really qualified to comment on this subject? All you ever seem to say is "they wouldn't do it" and "if they did it would be obvious".

I am not sure how you can make either of those claims with the certainty that you seem to attach to them.

Can you say with 100% certainty that the sites do not manipulate things in anyway?

I only ask because you seem a very strange person. People come here with concerns and you instantly ridicule them, call them names and belittle them without anything substantial to back up your claims. If you are in a position to use facts and statistics to highlight your opinion why not use those facts and statistics. I assume that you have done a great deal of work yourself in order to come to your conclusions. I understand that this is your passion, it's nice that you have something in your life which you feel is this important, but I don't think your contributions really help.

There are thousands of people who will not play online because they feel it is rigged. Because of these people and also for our own sakes we should be encouraging pokersites to open themselves up for regular inspections, maybe by a team put together on 2+2. Let them have an agreeable number of hand histories, from everyone, and audit them.
You really belive that you can easy audit a rigged deck ?
Maybee pokerhands are random, but definetely poker is not as fair as it was 2004-2006. Todays bots are much stronger..not all superusers are detected...netrake increased...more and more software involved...more and more accounts abused / hacked.

Poker was nice for me 3-4 years, but today its waste of time for me
solucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 05:37 AM   #10164
SwedishMedusa
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 390
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by solucky View Post
You really belive that you can easy audit a rigged deck ?
Maybee pokerhands are random, but definetely poker is not as fair as it was 2004-2006. Todays bots are much stronger..not all superusers are detected...netrake increased...more and more software involved...more and more accounts abused / hacked.

Poker was nice for me 3-4 years, but today its waste of time for me
Maybee pokerhands are random - very likely

but definetely poker is not as fair as it was 2004-2006 - not sure I agree, I don't think it's necessarily fairer or less fair

Todays bots are much stronger - bots are a real threat indeed. but this is constantly a cat and mouse chase, if bots are getting stronger it is also reasonable to assume that sites are getting better at catching bots. at least the larger sites

not all superusers are detected - well since they aren't detected we can't know they exist, can we? for all we know there may be tons of superupers out there, or there may be none. personally I think the chance is small that there are superusers on any of the bigger sites, but the risk gets larger the smaller and more obscure sites you play on.

more and more software involved - this one I agree with

netrake increased - really? not saying you are wrong but please show figures

more and more accounts abused / hacked - this is not a site integrity issue though, it's about being smart about your own account (site and email accounts) security


Comparing todays poker to a few years back I think the main reason for concern is simply that the games have become tougher.
SwedishMedusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 06:05 AM   #10165
zocketpocket
veteran
 
zocketpocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: C.R.E.A.M get that mannies!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 2,935
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Of course online poker is rigged. The trick is to pay off the dealer before you sit down at the table.
zocketpocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 02:38 PM   #10166
solucky
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,480
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
Maybee pokerhands are random - very likely

but definetely poker is not as fair as it was 2004-2006 - not sure I agree, I don't think it's necessarily fairer or less fair

Todays bots are much stronger - bots are a real threat indeed. but this is constantly a cat and mouse chase, if bots are getting stronger it is also reasonable to assume that sites are getting better at catching bots. at least the larger sites

not all superusers are detected - well since they aren't detected we can't know they exist, can we? for all we know there may be tons of superupers out there, or there may be none. personally I think the chance is small that there are superusers on any of the bigger sites, but the risk gets larger the smaller and more obscure sites you play on.

more and more software involved - this one I agree with

netrake increased - really? not saying you are wrong but please show figures

more and more accounts abused / hacked - this is not a site integrity issue though, it's about being smart about your own account (site and email accounts) security


Comparing todays poker to a few years back I think the main reason for concern is simply that the games have become tougher.
Between 2003 and 2006 you pay less rake, you get on a douzend sites easy 4 times more RB than today...and on many sites more than 100%...you could loose in poker and still win. Guess my best was 1200 $ for 14000 dealt hands NL25.

Hacking accounts , manipulating ATMs, cheating during life gambling is total common. Off course 1000s try to cheat with onlinepoker...and i bet a few are successfull.
solucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 04:01 PM   #10167
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by solucky View Post
Between 2003 and 2006 you pay less rake, you get on a douzend sites easy 4 times more RB than today...and on many sites more than 100%...you could loose in poker and still win. Guess my best was 1200 $ for 14000 dealt hands NL25.
This was during the rapid growth stage of the market where a ton of new companies entered and a ton of new players jumped in. A lot of money was spent in very inefficient ways to lure players, and some smaller networks (Crypto for instance) eventually created a system that gave an obscene amount of rakeback/bonus to the low stakes players - well over 500% for those extremely efficient.

That type of condition cannot last because it simply cannot make money. Why would anyone move up when they can get paid to sit and fold every hand except KK/AA at lower stakes at no risk and earn as much as being a decent player several levels higher.

Online casinos were even crazier in their rewards in the day.

I took advantage of this as much as anyone, but I also realized that it was not a situation that could last unless this industry behaved completely different from every other one before it in terms of it's business cycle.

What happened is what always happens - the market matured and sites that gave away too much got swarmed by advantage players who cost the sites money. Eventually many of the smaller networks failed/merged with larger ones and a more long term sustainable reward system was in place on the sites that remain.

You and a few others no longer have the "I can lose at poker and still win" games available to you, but that was never something that could last forever. That's your problem.

Next time work on your game even in those situations and you will be better prepared for the change when it happens.





Quote:
Originally Posted by solucky View Post
Hacking accounts , manipulating ATMs, cheating during life gambling is total common. Off course 1000s try to cheat with onlinepoker...and i bet a few are successfull.
RSA tokens have pretty much eliminated hacking at Stars for those that have them. Your other stuff is just weird made up stuff based on the frustration of your situation.


- The games got tougher over time (as they always will)

- The rewards got more in line with long term market sustainability (as they always will)

- Your bad game that could make money in the good old days no longer works.


Not too complicated.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 05:00 PM   #10168
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
This was during the rapid growth stage of the market where a ton of new companies entered and a ton of new players jumped in. A lot of money was spent in very inefficient ways to lure players, and some smaller networks (Crypto for instance) eventually created a system that gave an obscene amount of rakeback/bonus to the low stakes players - well over 500% for those extremely efficient.

That type of condition cannot last because it simply cannot make money. Why would anyone move up when they can get paid to sit and fold every hand except KK/AA at lower stakes at no risk and earn as much as being a decent player several levels higher.

Online casinos were even crazier in their rewards in the day.

I took advantage of this as much as anyone, but I also realized that it was not a situation that could last unless this industry behaved completely different from every other one before it in terms of it's business cycle.

What happened is what always happens - the market matured and sites that gave away too much got swarmed by advantage players who cost the sites money. Eventually many of the smaller networks failed/merged with larger ones and a more long term sustainable reward system was in place on the sites that remain.

You and a few others no longer have the "I can lose at poker and still win" games available to you, but that was never something that could last forever. That's your problem.

Next time work on your game even in those situations and you will be better prepared for the change when it happens.







RSA tokens have pretty much eliminated hacking at Stars for those that have them. Your other stuff is just weird made up stuff based on the frustration of your situation.


- The games got tougher over time (as they always will)

- The rewards got more in line with long term market sustainability (as they always will)

- Your bad game that could make money in the good old days no longer works.


Not too complicated.
How the hell do you know if he's a bad poker player?
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 05:04 PM   #10169
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post

What happened is what always happens - the market matured and sites that gave away too much got swarmed by advantage players who cost the sites money. Eventually many of the smaller networks failed/merged with larger ones and a more long term sustainable reward system was in place on the sites that remain.
The failing of the small networks was more due to UIGA then their modals.
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 05:14 PM   #10170
solucky
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,480
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
How the hell do you know if he's a bad poker player?

I reduced poker dramatic and used the free money from the good times to
invest money in stocks. Poker is now waste of time for me..i am not frustrated it was nice but not these days.

In fact its not important rigged or not rigged...only winning a good hourly rate or not. Its definetely not a good hourly ammount for me
solucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 05:47 PM   #10171
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
How the hell do you know if he's a bad poker player?
Basic reading comprehension skills. He basically said it himself more than once. He was one of the guys that made money from bonus/rakeback regardless of how they did at the tables (they generally lost at a healthy clip at the tables since they never played a hand). Some sites gave these guys 500%+ rakeback so they won when losing or as he said

Quote:
Originally Posted by solucky View Post
Between 2003 and 2006 you pay less rake, you get on a douzend sites easy 4 times more RB than today...and on many sites more than 100%...you could loose in poker and still win.
I don't fault these guys for taking advantage of the situation when they could, but their complaints today are not ones that matter because they were never desired customers anyway, as much like casino bonus whores they were advantage players.


I played against these guys for a long time on the Crypto network, and they were very open about why they did what they did - learning/becoming skilled at poker was not really on their to do list. Not sure why you think this is an issue, none of them ever claimed they were skilled at the game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
The failing of the small networks was more due to UIGA then their modals.
That sped up the process by artificially removing a huge chunk of the market, but it would have gone through the same changes in a matter of time. By now it would have been pretty much where it is.
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 06:14 PM   #10172
KingOfFelt
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
KingOfFelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Coast
Posts: 7,233
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by solucky View Post
I reduced poker dramatic and used the free money from the good times to
invest money in stocks. Poker is now waste of time for me..i am not frustrated it was nice but not these days.

In fact its not important rigged or not rigged...only winning a good hourly rate or not. Its definetely not a good hourly ammount for me
You realize though that sometimes there is "cheating" going on in the stock market as well.
KingOfFelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 07:20 PM   #10173
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
That sped up the process by artificially removing a huge chunk of the market, but it would have gone through the same changes in a matter of time. By now it would have been pretty much where it is.
I think if UIGA were repealed and the expenses (for sites), hassles and fear it's illegal to play were gone you would see a lot more of those smaller "mom and pop" sites, but it's just a guess. .
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 07:31 PM   #10174
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
I think if UIGA were repealed and the expenses (for sites), hassles and fear it's illegal to play were gone you would see a lot more of those smaller "mom and pop" sites, but it's just a guess. .
Ya and if the Illuminatti didn't **** things up, they wouldn't of ran all the "mom and pop" businesses into the ground....errr or something like that...
It's UIGEA and if it poker was regulated, I don't think think the small sites that you reference, could compete...
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2009, 07:38 PM   #10175
wandramp
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: holland
Posts: 80
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

today i had 4bad beats in a row(all in, at the turn, one card to go) two 2 outers, and two 1 outers. You should say poker is rigged not online poker is rigged, this was a live game lol
wandramp is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive