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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:55 PM   #9976
old_moose
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
proof?

I declare this as a victory for the protectors because he didn't prove he didn't take the test.
Ok Ok Ok you conned me. You won this victory.

As the same, your win does not take my or ours, the rigtards win of saying, "Yes poker is rigged'
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #9977
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

yep it's rigged, you proved it by not disproving it.... congrats
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:21 PM   #9978
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Re: Is it possible that Poker Stars is the only fair site?

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Originally Posted by latanyawilliams View Post
i caint posibly no, not a math student

but

if it was increase by 2 or 3 percents, this wuld be a tremendous amount, enuf, fo exampel, to change the way folks paly all ins late in tourneys

[ ] Math Student

[x] Clearly An English Student
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:52 PM   #9979
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Webdonk Dicktionari

old_moose:
argumentum ad ignorantiam; irrelevant conclusions; non sequitur
see also rigtard


If you look up the opposite of old_moose, you'll find one word.. proper (my favorite word btw)


Websters Dictionary

proper:
1 a : referring to one individual only b : belonging to one : own c : appointed for the liturgy of a particular day d : represented heraldically in natural color
2 : belonging characteristically to a species or individual : peculiar
3 chiefly dialect : good-looking, handsome
4 : very good : excellent
5 chiefly British : utter, absolute
6 : strictly limited to a specified thing, place, or idea
7 a. strictly accurate : correct b. archaic : virtuous, respectable c. strictly decorous : genteel
8 : marked by suitability, rightness, or appropriateness : fit
9 : being a mathematical subset (as a subgroup) that does not contain all the elements of the inclusive set from which it is derived
synonyms see fit
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:13 AM   #9980
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Re: Is it possible that Poker Stars is the only fair site?

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Originally Posted by latanyawilliams View Post
This has been in palce from the very begining of online poka. The ole time pro call is the ACTION SHUFFEL.

and it is easy to prove. the atempts to prove online is rig shuld analize how offen the underdog wins through the riva card.

IT WILL NOT BE THE RANDOM AMOUONT.
You're correct that the river cards (and all board cards) are not totally random, but for entirely the wrong reasons. There's no need to look at underdogs or winners to check this, simply check the distribution of river cards to see if it looks skewed.

Players choose when to see flops, then when to continue to the turn, then when to continue to the river. Only a portion of boards are dealt. If they were all dealt, they would be totally uniform and random and every card would show on every street at a rate of 1/13 (1/52 considering suit). But since we have a well-known removal effect where players tend to see flops when holding high cards, the board will contain more low cards than high cards. And this effect becomes more pronounced for the turn, and even more pronounced for the river, as player requirements to continue in the hand become more strict at later streets.

Notice in the graph below that the three flop cards are essentially uniform for each rank, with a smooth transition from low to high. Then the turn shows more difference between low and high, the river more still. Players who get to the river tend to hold about the same number of Tens thru Kings, but significantly more Aces, leaving fewer that can hit the board. Eights, the median card, are exactly on the expected average. And going down from Eights, the lower cards increasingly show up on the board.

This graph is part of a larger analysis that goes much further than this gross distribution, breaking down card patterns related to poker hands. I'll be publishing it soon. I also have this distribution for various table sizes and various stakes. This one is full ring excluding high stakes and micro stakes, and represents the typical structure for the vast majority of online NLHE cash games. Click to enlarge.




and to see a more pure version of the removal effect with less noise, just look at heads-up games. Here you can see that Kings are favored more than other broadway cards, and Aces still more (as expected). And players don't like to play hands containing a deuce thru five. All very reasonable.


Last edited by spadebidder; 10-26-2009 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:20 AM   #9981
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
This goes back to the clubs, thirty years ago
So yeah, if you check raised during that game, you were cheating. You follow the rules of the game you are playing in. Using a bot online=cheating.
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:17 PM   #9982
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by LVGambler View Post
During my poker playing clubs days, checking and raising back was not allowed. The reason is quite simple, it was used to deceive a person, or con a person out of the money. In fact, a person who checked a big hand, just to set someone up, in hope someone would try a bluff. These people were called "chiselers."
This makes no sense. You say that check-raising was not allowed, and then you say that people who did it were called "chiselers." If it wasn't allowed, how were there people who did it?

I think you're misremembering how it really was. There has never been a rule against check-raising, unless you and some like-minded friends made it up yourselves and used it in your home games. You might have considered it "rude," but it has never been considered cheating. The only way it could be cheating is if it was against the rules, and if it was against the rules nobody would be able to do it because everybody else at the table would, you know, notice.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:55 PM   #9983
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fat View Post
old_moose, you really need to start applying some critical thinking skills rather than believing everything you read.

Why do you automatically believe that Tiltware wrote software for Full Tilt, that Bob Smith worked for them, and that Bob Smith is even the guy who wrote the posts you're always quoting?

But more to the point here, what makes you think TheRealBobSmith is anything other than the gimmick account that he is? Did you even bother reading all his posts (there's only 3)?

Maybe I should create a TheRealBillGates account and see if I can get you to send me $50 for a copy of Windows 7.

You guys are so scary, you caught me so fast...Sincerely, TheRealDonkoTheClown. lolololol!
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:31 AM   #9984
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99 View Post
This makes no sense. You say that check-raising was not allowed, and then you say that people who did it were called "chiselers." If it wasn't allowed, how were there people who did it?

I think you're misremembering how it really was. There has never been a rule against check-raising, unless you and some like-minded friends made it up yourselves and used it in your home games. You might have considered it "rude," but it has never been considered cheating. The only way it could be cheating is if it was against the rules, and if it was against the rules nobody would be able to do it because everybody else at the table would, you know, notice.
Umm.. why is MY name on that??
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:49 AM   #9985
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by LVGambler View Post
Umm.. why is MY name on that??
Sorry about that. It should have had old_moose's name.

I was going to do a multi-quote post and selected several posts to quote, then decided only to quote old_moose to save space. But when I deleted all the other stuff I must have left the wrong "quote= " tag in there.

My bad.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:46 AM   #9986
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

No problem. I figured it was a mix up.


Or as old_moose would say: Problem it is not so. I've Calculated it was a mixed in.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:49 AM   #9987
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

old_moose: All your base are belong to us.
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:18 PM   #9988
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
You guys are all totally nuts talking directly to that moose guy by the way.

Again, he is either a fake conning you or a genuinely weird old guy starved for any kind of attention, even negative attention...
Grandpa Meares?
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:52 PM   #9989
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Poker stars is full of sH**t. Its impossible to win at the MTT's. Time and time again they hit me with rare beats and Reward awful, atrocious play.
Been playing since 2006 and during that time i have only cashed big once.
Pstars lacks a fair and normal dealt game. Sometimes i go through a stretch where i fold 200x an no pairs over 10's(3+ hours of play online, pair of tens please!). Lol this is insane, not possible!
Usually when the game goes like this , I end up suffering a beat with a big hand.
Its like i already no it, during the showdown before the flop. I have pair of kk's Opponent shows pair of 99's, flop spikes a nine .... goodnight ! how many nines are in the deck 20?
Now the cash games are alright ONLY if your pushing supernova elite.
But is there anyone else having a hard time in the MTT'S?
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:05 PM   #9990
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Hey, it's a more normal crazy rant!
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:14 PM   #9991
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
But is there anyone else having a hard time in the MTT'S?
Don't most people lose MTTs by definition?
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:22 PM   #9992
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Don't most people lose MTTs by definition?
Not here buddy!
its not even the fact of winning or your hands holding up kinda thing. Just show me a normal, fair, realistic dealt game. And then, ill worry about the statistics on winning in MTT'S.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:28 PM   #9993
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Poker stars is full of sH**t. Its impossible to win at the MTT's.
Yeah, right. Not for everyone. Maybe for you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Time and time again they hit me with rare beats and Reward awful, atrocious play.
Then play badly.

Get rewarded.



Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Been playing since 2006 and during that time i have only cashed big once.
And yet you think that single healthy cash in many years is the real indication of your play.

Interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Pstars lacks a fair and normal dealt game. Sometimes i go through a stretch where i fold 200x an no pairs over 10's(3+ hours of play online, pair of tens please!). Lol this is insane, not possible!
I don't even know what this means.

Anyway, if you go with your play badly plan you do not need to worry about pocket pairs. Play 93o fold AA.

Make millions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Usually when the game goes like this , I end up suffering a beat with a big hand.
Play small hands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Its like i already no it, during the showdown before the flop. I have pair of kk's Opponent shows pair of 99's, flop spikes a nine .... goodnight !
Fold KK then. Use your superpowers of telling the future (in hindsight) to your advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
how many nines are in the deck 20?
Since you will be folding KK in future this will not be a concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Now the cash games are alright ONLY if your pushing supernova elite.
But is there anyone else having a hard time in the MTT'S?
Lots struggle in MTTs. It's because they are not good enough to beat MTTs.

Hope this helped.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:31 PM   #9994
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Just show me a normal, fair, realistic dealt game. And then, ill worry about the statistics on winning in MTT'S.
So you crush MTT's when playing live? And that's because the deal is markedly different? Are you familiar with the term "delusional" ?
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:31 PM   #9995
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

POTTRIPPER.......oh that was just a one tIME thing. Okay so its not rigged, Got it! lol
Its like saying the NBA is not rigged......michael donahue??
once a hoe* always a hoe*
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:42 PM   #9996
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
So you crush MTT's when playing live? And that's because the deal is markedly different? Are you familiar with the term "delusional" ?
Hey its you again, the smart a** that sticks his nose everywhere. Last I remember, you ratted me out on 2+2. This time i will be more careful and wont hurt your feelings.
Don't reply on my posts. I ignore STUPID people like you. You always give me useless and unhelpful info.
F OFF!
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:51 PM   #9997
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Hey its you again, the smart a** that sticks his nose everywhere. Last I remember, you ratted me out on 2+2. This time i will be more careful and wont hurt your feelings.
No, I didn't rat you out. I warned you about making racist comments but you continued so I infracted you. Then YOU went to Mat Sklansky crying foul but he said basically "if he wants to make such posts, just ban him."

That's a more accurate version of how things went.
Quote:
Don't reply on my posts. I ignore STUPID people like you. You always give me useless and unhelpful info.
F OFF!
really, you think any part of either of your two most recent posts were anything but stupid, useless and unhelpful?!?!!?

Also, by responding to my post, you are doing the OPPOSITE of ignoring me. DUCY?

Again, I ask: are you familiar with the term "delusional" ?
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:51 PM   #9998
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So you crush MTT's when playing live? And that's because the deal is markedly different? Are you familiar with the term "delusional" ?
Are you familiar with the word d**k head?

Lol sorry cant help my self

monteroy you are a idiot.

Last edited by Markusgc; 10-27-2009 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:55 PM   #9999
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Are you familiar with the word d**k head?
In before permaban.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:58 PM   #10000
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by statoyan View Post
Are you familiar with the word d**k head?
solid reply (for a 7th grader).
Quote:
Lol sorry cant help my self
yeah, that's not something to be proud of.
Quote:
monteroy you are a idiot.
worthless troll.

how's that ignoring thing working out for ya, btw?
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