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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:52 PM   #9876
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Oh, and old_moose, good job letting us know all about the Pitbull drama that began unfolding right here on 2+2 over 2 months ago. Since you've only been able to get through 25 posts of this thread in a week or two, I'm sure it'll take you several months to get through that thread, but once you do, you'll find more of your so-called "protectors" helping out in that thread as well.

YOU

ARE

HELPING

NO

ONE.

Do some reading for a few weeks and then come back if you have something of value to add.
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:53 PM   #9877
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fat View Post
old_moose, your schtick is getting old. Long before any trouble at Pibull, there was Cereus (Ultimate and Absolute). The unearthing of both of those scandals happened in large part because of the hard work of many 2+2ers, some of whom are among your ridiculously named "protectors". So go ahead and chisel imaginary names like Bob Smith on your imaginary plaque. Meanwhile, many intelligent 2+2ers will remain on the lookout for real scandals and do their part in exposing them. It's unfortunate people like you have this need to complicate the issue by promoting unfounded and unsubstantiated crap. Why do you do this? What site are you protecting?
Why are you protecting Pitbull. Let hear what you have to say about this recent scandal. Beside if the above scandal exists why are you protecting the statement, "Online poker is rigged."

After so many incident, why are you protecting this issue about rigging??
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:55 PM   #9878
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Why are you protecting Pitbull. Let hear what you have to say about this recent scandal. Beside if the above scandal exists why are you protecting the statement, "Online poker is rigged."

After so many incident, why are you protecting this issue about rigging??
OMFG. Are you really this thick? Really???

Please tell me how I'm protecting Pitbull. And try rephrasing

Quote:
why are you protecting the statement, "Online poker is rigged."
into proper English so I can figure out what I'm even being accused of.
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:58 PM   #9879
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Why are you protecting Pitbull.
What a stupid irrelevant comeback. Does it bother you at all that he never said anything remotely trying to protect Pitbull? Do facts, reality, or reason have any place in your world??
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:02 PM   #9880
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fat View Post
Oh, and old_moose, good job letting us know all about the Pitbull drama that began unfolding right here on 2+2 over 2 months ago. Since you've only been able to get through 25 posts of this thread in a week or two, I'm sure it'll take you several months to get through that thread, but once you do, you'll find more of your so-called "protectors" helping out in that thread as well.

YOU

ARE

HELPING

NO

ONE.

Do some reading for a few weeks and then come back if you have something of value to add.
Is this the best you can do, you are like some educated mouth piece, who is talking about the weather, rather than proving his client has done nothing wrong.

Whats your interest in Pitbull? Let start with this question.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:05 PM   #9881
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog View Post
What a stupid irrelevant comeback. Does it bother you at all that he never said anything remotely trying to protect Pitbull? Do facts, reality, or reason have any place in your world??
Whats your interest in Pitbull???
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:09 PM   #9882
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Its funny, I had no intent on ever posting in this thread again because its pointless. Its like trying to convince some religious zealots that the world is really more than 5,000 years old. When someone debates with the idea that proof and reason are meaningless its futile. You know the sayings, taking a horse to water, getting blood from a rock, yada yada. But the level of stupidity on display by the old_moose made me chime in despite my better judgement lol.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:15 PM   #9883
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Whats your interest in Pitbull???
My interest is to attack your ignorance and lies before they affect weak minded or gullible people and in the long run directly hurt every poker player in this forum monetarily.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:20 PM   #9884
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog View Post
Its funny, I had no intent on ever posting in this thread again because its pointless. Its like trying to convince some religious zealots that the world is really more than 5,000 years old. When someone debates with the idea that proof and reason are meaningless its futile. You know the sayings, taking a horse to water, getting blood from a rock, yada yada. But the level of stupidity on display by the old_moose made me chime in despite my better judgement lol.
That Ok, means to me you don't have an answer. You are forgiven, it will just put your name as "protector or shill" in my book.

If members would only declare themselves, as whether a believer or protector, it would be so much easier to apply to this board. Everyone has their opinion, and I can fully respect it.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:27 PM   #9885
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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My interest is to attack your ignorance and lies before they affect weak minded or gullible people and in the long run directly hurt every poker player in this forum monetarily.
Oh boy have you open a door.

"ignorance and lies" that was a news clip at the link I gave. Does mean I write the news now. If you think its a lies go and fight with them?????

RE- before they affect weak minded or gullible people and in the long run directly hurt every poker player in this forum monetarilydon't wakeup the public, let us staet their money

Does this mean "shut up buddy" we can steal alot of money, don't wake up the public to the fact, they are being cheated???"
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:32 PM   #9886
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Its funny, I had no intent on ever posting in this thread again because its pointless.
Yup, that's why I stayed out for months, and will try to stay out again for the most part.

old_moose, I'll humour you one last time. I never said anything about Pitbull. I never defended them, I have no interest in them, I just pointed out to you that Pitbull's demise was brought about by 2+2ers. Please stop making baseless accusations against me. If you choose not to or can't understand that, you're either a troll or extremely stupid. You're not helping anyone's cause. No one's. You're just being a destructive force. If 2+2ers are able to unearth any other scandals, it will be in spite of people like you, not because of them.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:38 PM   #9887
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Yup, that's why I stayed out for months, and will try to stay out again for the most part.

old_moose, I'll humour you one last time. I never said anything about Pitbull. I never defended them, I have no interest in them, I just pointed out to you that Pitbull's demise was brought about by 2+2ers. Please stop making baseless accusations against me. If you choose not to or can't understand that, you're either a troll or extremely stupid. You're not helping anyone's cause. No one's. You're just being a destructive force. If 2+2ers are able to unearth any other scandals, it will be in spite of people like you, not because of them.
Ok buddy I'm sorry, my mistake for picking on you. I'm keyed up for a battle and I make mistakes. I apologies to you, and please forgive me.
Further if you were here with me, I would offer you a beer and we could chat about poker.

Have a pleasant day.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:47 PM   #9888
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Ok buddy I'm sorry, my mistake for picking on you. I'm keyed up for a battle and I make mistakes. I apologies to you, and please forgive me.
Further if you were here with me, I would offer you a beer and we could chat about poker.

Have a pleasant day.
You too sir. Have a beer for me.

And seriously, do some reading. 2+2ers have been behind quite a few scandals being exposed. Even some of the people in this thread that you call "protectors".
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:49 PM   #9889
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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No, when there is actually something wrong, 2p2 members play a key role in detecting it and uncovering it.
I was being sarcastic.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:51 PM   #9890
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fat View Post
You too sir. Have a beer for me.

And seriously, do some reading. 2+2ers have been behind quite a few scandals being exposed. Even some of the people in this thread that you call "protectors".
I believe you, just there are many pages and boy, to follow some of the debates takes a lot of time.

Have a nice evening
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:26 PM   #9891
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I really hope he is a fake troll, because if so I will give props for the reaction he is creating.


If he is just an old Grampa Simpson type guy craving attention, hey props for him for getting what he wants in that scenario as well.

For those of us who did not follow the Pitbull thing, is there a quick summary? I'll make the whopping assumption it had nothing to actually do with the RnG so it's some other type of mis-doing that is being wrongly interpreted as rigging.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:38 PM   #9892
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Ok buddy I'm sorry, my mistake for picking on you. I'm keyed up for a battle and I make mistakes. I apologies to you, and please forgive me.
Further if you were here with me, I would offer you a beer and we could chat about poker.

Have a pleasant day.
Old Moose, I'll also humour you one last time.

Several of the "shills" you are accusing of actively participated in the pitbull thread. Nothing in the pitbull thread involved rigging the RNG: although I suppose that could have come out if handhistories were ever released. In any event, I'm pretty sure you don't really understand what pitbull was being accused of in that thread.

None of the "shills" believe it is impossible that some of the sites are rigged. And by this we mean the random number generator. However, to date, no one has shown any reliable evidence of that. An anonymous posting by a "Bob Smith" is not reliable evidence if it has not been verified in any manner.

If you had read this thread, you would know that several of the "shills", most notably Spadebidder, who was also heavily involved in the Pitbull thread, have done extensive statistical analysis to determine if there is any rigging going on. So far no extensive study has revealed anything amiss.

If such a study did reveal rigging, these "shills" would be the at the front of the battle against whatever poker site was found to be doing it.

With all due respect, you are massively uninformed on all these matters. You are reading bits and pieces of different threads, and zeroing in on certain posts. You are declaring victory in battles which have already been fought and won, without your participation. People have been trying to give you advice, which you are ignoring completely.

Meanwhile, the only wrongdoing we seem to be certain of is your own, as you have admitted to cheating while playing online poker. You are not in a position of moral superiority here.

Bobo's advice is sound: take some tiime off from posting, actually read these threads, which have tons of information, and then come back with an informed opinion. If you have questions, you'll get lots of answers, and maybe you can actually participate in the debate in a constructive manner.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:12 PM   #9893
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Old Moose, I'll also humour you one last time.

Several of the "shills" you are accusing of actively participated in the pitbull thread. Nothing in the pitbull thread involved rigging the RNG: although I suppose that could have come out if handhistories were ever released. In any event, I'm pretty sure you don't really understand what pitbull was being accused of in that thread.
If the thread is only for a debate on RNG, then yes I struck my nose into something that I don't really understand.

The word "rigged" in my dictionary has the following definition. "arrange in a dis-honest way:" Therefore if Pitbull arrange the software in a dis-honest way, it should be publicly annouced and the poker is rigged. Therefore making the rigtards or believers the winners of the debate.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:24 PM   #9894
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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If the thread is only for a debate on RNG, then yes I struck my nose into something that I don't really understand.

The word "rigged" in my dictionary has the following definition. "arrange in a dis-honest way:" Therefore if Pitbull arrange the software in a dis-honest way, it should be publicly annouced and the poker is rigged. Therefore making the rigtards or believers the winner of the debate.
This wouldn't make anyone the winner of a debate. I don't think you understand what this thread is. Let me try to explain.

We get people all the time in this forum that start threads along the lines of "I lose with AA every time. Site X is rigged. Hand histories? No, I don't have any, but I know it's rigged". There's all sorts of variations, but they all end up as the same thing - many accusations, no evidence. So, sick of all those threads, we started merging them. That's how this thread started, and threads are continually merged into it.

Then every once in a while, we get a thread started like the Pitbull thread. Or the Absolute Poker thread. Or the Ultimate Bet thread. Threads where people actually gave some real reason to believe that something might be amiss at the particular site. Like actual hand histories. And some of the same people arguing against the rigtards in this thread can be found in those threads, analyzing evidence and helping the investigation. These efforts helped get millions of dollars refunded to UB and AP players that were cheated.

As for the Pitbull thread, I'll admit to not having made the time to read through it all yet either. But my understanding was that there were superuser accusations that were never proved, partly because no one could get hand histories out of Pitbull before they shut down. I think the opinion of those I respect around here was that there probably wasn't any superusers involved, but regardless, something shady was going on, and now they're no more.

So no, whatever happened or didn't happen at Pitbull really doesn't have any bearing to what's being debated in this thread, sorry. It's actually a debate that can never be won or lost, because the conspiracy theorists have no evidence, and there's no way to prove a negative like "poker at site x isn't rigged".

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 10-25-2009 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Typos - posting during hockey games apparently messes me up.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:36 PM   #9895
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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This wouldn't make anyone the winner of a debate. I don't think you understand what this thread is. Let me try to explain.

We get people all the time in this forum that start threads along the lines of "I lose with AA every time. Site X is rigged. Hand histories? No, I don't have any, but I know it's rigged". There's all sorts of variations, but they all end up as the same thing - many accusations, no evidence. So, sick of all those threads, we started merging them. That's how this thread started, and threads are continually merged into it.
When is the one in the probablility section going to be merged, that would be a nice addition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke_Pokerstars View Post
Hey Friend


IT COMES DOWN TO THIS:

All the tables in pokerstars contain one or more COMPANY bots some table do not. But in general I would say that the percentage is high probable 10 percent of all online players at pokerstars are COMPANY bots.
More mafia stuff and gems like this and fewer confused fake/real old guys!
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:00 PM   #9896
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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When is the one in the probablility section going to be merged, that would be a nice addition.
More mafia stuff and gems like this and fewer confused fake/real old guys!
Sorry but do I gather you are negative to all posting as if all are fake??? People fake also??

Are you dead against anyone posting anything??

Want to measure your inputs.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:14 PM   #9897
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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When is the one in the probablility section going to be merged, that would be a nice addition.
Is there one there too? Well, if they want to move it here I'm sure it'll end up merged, but I won't be so presumptuous as to move it myself. I assume they're happy with it there.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:21 PM   #9898
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Old_moose,

You - and your ilk - do a great disservice to those of us who actually care about the integrity of online poker.

The hysterical claims of the various rigtards who declare that online poker is rigged has, in this thread, been based on literally no evidence. When you highlight the anonymous internet poster "Bob Smith" as an expert, you highlight the intellectual bankruptcy of your "argument". Seriously, the best experts that the rigtards can quote on this issue in this thread are:

-An anonymous internet poster, posing as a mythical person called Bob Smith
and
-Mike Matusow

More sinister, however, when you make these hysterical and baseless claims, you detract from the real scandals in this industry: At Pitbull, PokerSpot, Absolute Poker, Ultimate Bet, and PlanetPoker. You make it harder for those of us who care about integrity because you spew up so much crap that it makes it harder to confuse the signal from the noise.

You claim to care about integrity in online poker, yet you repeat lies and mistruths. It is people like you - and your fellow travellers on your broken train - that are in fact the enemy of integrity, honesty and credibility in online poker. It are the people who don't fall for your nonsense that are the real advocates for fairness and integrity.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:27 PM   #9899
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Old Moose, I'll also humour you one last time.

Meanwhile, the only wrongdoing we seem to be certain of is your own, as you have admitted to cheating while playing online poker. You are not in a position of moral superiority here.
One more thing I must straight out. Where does playing with a BOTs constitutes a criminal offense. It is against Full Tilt rules. But, is it against the Constitution of USA, has the WhiteHouse pass any rules of using BOTs. What about the UN? No, BOTs are not illegal and they are sold openly on the Internet
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:38 PM   #9900
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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One more thing I must straight out. Where does playing with a BOTs constitutes a criminal offense. It is against Full Tilt rules. But, is it against the Constitution of USA, has the WhiteHouse pass any rules of using BOTs. What about the UN? No, BOTs are not illegal and they are sold openly on the Internet
Who said anything about criminal? I called you a cheater. Many posters here have tried to give you advice, which you seem intent on ignoring. It seems that age has not made you wise.
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