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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-19-2009, 03:54 AM   #9551
old_moose
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Modern RNGs don't use seed numbers. This was most recently discussed within the last few pages.
I admit I'm somewhat behind the times, but whats the different. Example, if the seed number was generatered by the amount of seconds since the begin of 1990. I could with some help figure the seed number out. So I don't really see the differents, if I put the seed number in or if I know how the seed numbers is calculated. it should be the same. I know it kind of far fetch to think somebody would sit with a calculator to figure what cards are coming out. I don't think the RNG does pump the cards out, but only numbers from 1 to 52. After the software would take the numbers (There would be a scale, example 1-13 = spades ace being 1, 14 -26 = hearts with 14 being the ace., 27 - 41= clubs 27 being the aces and so on.) using the scale a card is born.
The RNG at Full Tilt pumps out numbers constantly. How many per second? Mostlikely plenty.

You should take a peek at
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/FullTilt

There they got a petition going on against Full Tilt. As far as I can see, they are seeking 50,000 signature on the petition. They got about 52 now. It going to be interesting to see what happens here.

Best Take care
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:56 AM   #9552
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Re: Everleaf network

seems to be that on this network about 7 differnt players always win, no matter how far they are behind. These same players seem to call at the perfect time to hit exactly what they need. It doesnt matter if they have 1 out they hit it, and flush draws, they hit everysingle one. I cant even get a hand to hold up there anymore. Site used to be awesome, now its rediculous and the games are a no win situation.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:19 AM   #9553
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Example, if the seed number was generatered by the amount of seconds since the begin of 1990. I could with some help figure the seed number out.
However as (if they use that scheme) it's much more likely to be the number of microseconds since the last game ended you really wouldn't be able to figure it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
You should take a peek at
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/FullTilt

There they got a petition going on against Full Tilt. As far as I can see, they are seeking 50,000 signature on the petition. They got about 52 now. It going to be interesting to see what happens here.
Apart from the complete nonsense talked in the guff about the petition, who exactly are they petitioning?
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:11 AM   #9554
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
I admit I'm somewhat behind the times, but whats the different. Example, if the seed number was generatered by the amount of seconds since the begin of 1990. I could with some help figure the seed number out. So I don't really see the differents, if I put the seed number in or if I know how the seed numbers is calculated.
The difference is a modern RNG *****does not use seed numbers*****
There is no seed number to figure out. Is that clear now?
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Old 10-19-2009, 12:10 PM   #9555
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGambool View Post
If only there was a site that used real cards instead of software, amirite? Some sort of "Real Deal" maybe?
I hope you haven't been holding your breath for their exclusive freerolls.
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Old 10-19-2009, 12:39 PM   #9556
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGambool View Post
If only there was a site that used real cards instead of software, amirite? Some sort of "Real Deal" maybe?
This single-question poll:
http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1385125

which is created by and linked from the corporate website of the guys trying to set up RealDealPoker ( http://www.gioiasystems.com/about-gioia.html )
gives some indication of the awesome brainpower at work on the project. High-paid work, that.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:31 PM   #9557
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
This single-question poll:
http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1385125

which is created by and linked from the corporate website of the guys trying to set up RealDealPoker ( http://www.gioiasystems.com/about-gioia.html )
gives some indication of the awesome brainpower at work on the project. High-paid work, that.
ROFLMAO.

What were they expecting from the result?

I had to vote 'I just want to play'.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:34 PM   #9558
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
ROFLMAO.

What were they expecting from the result?

I had to vote 'I just want to play'.
It doesn't matter how you vote. I googled on this guy "John Doe" who wrote the code for the poll and rigged the results.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #9559
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
ROFLMAO.

What were they expecting from the result?

I had to vote 'I just want to play'.
If you go to the "About this poll" it says:

• Gioia Systems is set to revolutionize online poker with patented systems and technology. • The gaming market demands a solution to the perception of unfair gaming. Gioia Systems is the solution! • Global gaming market has tremendous growth potential. • Gioia Gaming Systems will be the catalyst for igniting significant online poker growth.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:57 PM   #9560
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

whatever happened to that RealDealPoker thing anyway? that's been under like permanent construction... makes you worry about how they'll do if they ever do get up and running...
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:16 PM   #9561
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I kind of missed all that drama at the time, but as a concept it seems really limiting since it slows down the games a ton, and would only appeal to weird riggedologists until they got bad beat (which has to happen) and they start seeing patterns (which has to happen). A strategy based upon appealing to paranoid fickle people is not the easiest to understand.

Plus the market is so saturated that any new entry is going to have a very, very hard time to compete unless they have a ton of money (ie: if US regulates it and big casinos create rooms).
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:26 PM   #9562
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
I kind of missed all that drama at the time, but as a concept it seems really limiting since it slows down the games a ton, and would only appeal to weird riggedologists until they got bad beat (which has to happen) and they start seeing patterns (which has to happen). A strategy based upon appealing to paranoid fickle people is not the easiest to understand.

Plus the market is so saturated that any new entry is going to have a very, very hard time to compete unless they have a ton of money (ie: if US regulates it and big casinos create rooms).
Bad beats will most definitely occur, just like they do in the casino. If there was only some way to rig the cards so that blanks came on the turn and river!!

That's it! The anti-rig poker website that always has blanks hit! Best hand on the flop wins every time! ©2009 smithcommajohn
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:33 PM   #9563
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post

"Stop Full Tilt Poker From There Proven Scam"

Rigtard logic, spelling and grammar summed up in the petition title. Good stuff.

Petition started: July 6th 2009
Supporters: 54
Goal: 50, 000
Full tilt shut down imminent:~= mid-23rd century
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:42 PM   #9564
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy View Post
"Stop Full Tilt Poker From There Proven Scam"

Rigtard logic, spelling and grammar summed up in the petition title. Good stuff.
That title is amazing. It's either a genius of a level, or created by a true rigtard in every sense of the word. It's better than the "morans" sign imo.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:50 PM   #9565
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
I don't know why you called me a pathetic cheating scumbag. Is it because I used some software in a game? If so, do you also call Full Tilt a pathetic cheating scumbag because they use software also.
They use software in order to provide their customers a service. You use software to cheat their other customers, in contravention of the terms and conditions you agreed to when you joined the site.

I called you a scumbag because you have posted accusations of cheating here with no proof, then admitted to cheating yourself.

I called you pathetic because you seem to see absolutely nothing wrong with this and because you keep posting drivel about RNGs, software etc which you seem to think is informative but sounds as though it was written by someone 1/10th your age.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:55 PM   #9566
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy View Post
"Stop Full Tilt Poker From There Proven Scam"
Let's also think about the concept of seeking popular endorsement for something that is "proven"
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:11 PM   #9567
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I challenged the posters who I call "Protectors" to write or post any information they got to prove the poker sites are not rigged. So far nobody has posted anything. Not one scrap of evidence. Oh they have called me names, as I was a wind bag and other nasty things. One of best they always comment on, is, "You don't know how to play poker." Maybe they are right, once I get settled into this board maybe I will offer them a chance to prove they are better than me. But it has to be for some good volume of cash. Nothing is better than a head to head game.

They also ask me to post my evidence, well I have only the following. Which is well broadcasted across the Internet. It is written by Bob Smith.

Found posted at http://www.pokerlistings.com/possibl...lt-poker-21428
Plus many other places on the Internet


on December 29, 2008 at 5:31 pm Bob Smith

Their are many folk out there arguing about if online poker is rigged or not…I wold like to help put this to rest by stating that it is rigged in many different ways. i helped write some of the software for tiltware LLC…while working on the fulltilt site some of the other programmers and i were asked to install programming into the software that would recognize certain players and provide them with unbeatable hands. we were also asked to develope software that would provide what they called the”maximum oppurtunity to bet” which meant that the deals are rigged to deal out alot of good starting hands to alot of players so that the most betting possible would take place on every deal. The deal would then provide a monster flop in which atleast two players would be all in before the river.(ever wonder why nobody ever misses the flop online…because then no one would bet and that is not what fulltilt wants) This keeps the tourneys fast paced and exciting which players love. Fulltilt loves this too, the faster you lose the faster they can make more money off you by having enter another tourney.
There is also another way fulltilt cheats you out of cash with their own personal players. These players are called house players and are fulltime employees of the Fulltilt compnay. If you check some names and their online wins vs. loss records you will often find them with records that are simply unreal. I have seen some of these folks who win over 50 straight sessions without a loss…how can this be possible unless they are working on the inside. They come and go and change their names often but they play in the site with the full adavantage of being able to see all the cards in play and in the deck.
Another programming trick we wrote into the software at fulltilt is the levels trick…this trick takes place when a tournament has been running after the first break. The computer recognizes the different size of each players chip stack and begins to deal out hands in which a small stack will shove all in and a large stack will have a better hand to call with. Have you ever wondered why you get pocekt QQs with 1500 chips and the guy next to you gets pockets KKs and he has 10,000 chips? The answer is simple the site is programmed to get you to play as much as possible. So we programmed the site to eliminate the small stack as quickly as possible so that they can go enter another tourney asap. The site is even prgrammed to adjust the flop for big stacks so that even if the big stack calls your hand with nothing he will end up beating your good made hand by the river. Often times the site will deal you back to back hands with the same cards but maybe different colors or suits..this “glitch” is a sign that the computer is adjusting the shuffle to start elimnting small stacks and allow the tourney to finish quicker.
The sooner a tournament is done the faster fulltilt can have you back at another table spending more money…it is to this sites best interested to eliminate you from tables as fast as possbile. There is no one to regulate how the company manipulates the software to thier own advantage. There is no one to monitor how the company pays out its players and employees. Simply put, giving some offshore account your hard earned cash is simply insane. Thinking that these people arent cheating you out of your money is crazy, the site has many layers of hidden programming all set up to take full adavantage of all types of players from novice to expert.
the main reason i wrote this blog is to expose the fraud that takes place at online gaming site known as Fulltilt poker i was fired three months ago from the company that helped write the software..yes i am bitter and mad but i do fell everyone so know how bad fulltilt is and that is a site built by THIEVES!!

Last edited by old_moose; 10-19-2009 at 05:13 PM. Reason: bad grammer
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:17 PM   #9568
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I have had Pocket Aces 51 times, lost 4 times and won 47 times for a profit of $98.99 (Win percentage of 92.2%)

I have had Pocket Kings 62 times, lost 7 times won 55 times for a profit of $187.86 (Win percentage of 87.1)

I have had Pocket Queens 65 times, lost 6 times won 59 times for a profit of $58.45 (Win percentage of 90.8%)

Pwned

/Thread
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:27 PM   #9569
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
I challenged the posters who I call "Protectors" to write or post any information they got to prove the poker sites are not rigged. So far nobody has posted anything. Not one scrap of evidence.
I'll make you a deal. Once you prove to me that Lizard People do not exist and I will prove to you that mystical forces are not at work at online sites. Since this is how proof works in your world (ie: disproving a negative), it should be easy.

Be sure to write your proof in FORTRAN.


Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
They also ask me to post my evidence, well I have only the following. Which is well broadcasted across the Internet. It is written by Bob Smith.
This has a "level" feel to it since he has not proven he is anyone with actual data, though it does prove that people will babble, even when they make up stuff.

The fact you say that is your only proof means you are either joking or just kind of dumb when writing. As I said earlier though it does not matter which since if it is a joke to you, others do take the same position seriously.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:04 PM   #9570
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
I challenged the posters who I call "Protectors" to write or post any information they got to prove the poker sites are not rigged. So far nobody has posted anything. Not one scrap of evidence. Oh they have called me names, as I was a wind bag and other nasty things. One of best they always comment on, is, "You don't know how to play poker." Maybe they are right, once I get settled into this board maybe I will offer them a chance to prove they are better than me. But it has to be for some good volume of cash. Nothing is better than a head to head game.

They also ask me to post my evidence, well I have only the following. Which is well broadcasted across the Internet. It is written by Bob Smith.

Found posted at http://www.pokerlistings.com/possibl...lt-poker-21428
Plus many other places on the Internet


on December 29, 2008 at 5:31 pm Bob Smith

Their are many folk out there arguing about if online poker is rigged or not…I wold like to help put this to rest by stating that it is rigged in many different ways. i helped write some of the software for tiltware LLC…while working on the fulltilt site some of the other programmers and i were asked to install programming into the software that would recognize certain players and provide them with unbeatable hands. we were also asked to develope software that would provide what they called the”maximum oppurtunity to bet” which meant that the deals are rigged to deal out alot of good starting hands to alot of players so that the most betting possible would take place on every deal. The deal would then provide a monster flop in which atleast two players would be all in before the river.(ever wonder why nobody ever misses the flop online…because then no one would bet and that is not what fulltilt wants) This keeps the tourneys fast paced and exciting which players love. Fulltilt loves this too, the faster you lose the faster they can make more money off you by having enter another tourney.
There is also another way fulltilt cheats you out of cash with their own personal players. These players are called house players and are fulltime employees of the Fulltilt compnay. If you check some names and their online wins vs. loss records you will often find them with records that are simply unreal. I have seen some of these folks who win over 50 straight sessions without a loss…how can this be possible unless they are working on the inside. They come and go and change their names often but they play in the site with the full adavantage of being able to see all the cards in play and in the deck.
Another programming trick we wrote into the software at fulltilt is the levels trick…this trick takes place when a tournament has been running after the first break. The computer recognizes the different size of each players chip stack and begins to deal out hands in which a small stack will shove all in and a large stack will have a better hand to call with. Have you ever wondered why you get pocekt QQs with 1500 chips and the guy next to you gets pockets KKs and he has 10,000 chips? The answer is simple the site is programmed to get you to play as much as possible. So we programmed the site to eliminate the small stack as quickly as possible so that they can go enter another tourney asap. The site is even prgrammed to adjust the flop for big stacks so that even if the big stack calls your hand with nothing he will end up beating your good made hand by the river. Often times the site will deal you back to back hands with the same cards but maybe different colors or suits..this “glitch” is a sign that the computer is adjusting the shuffle to start elimnting small stacks and allow the tourney to finish quicker.
The sooner a tournament is done the faster fulltilt can have you back at another table spending more money…it is to this sites best interested to eliminate you from tables as fast as possbile. There is no one to regulate how the company manipulates the software to thier own advantage. There is no one to monitor how the company pays out its players and employees. Simply put, giving some offshore account your hard earned cash is simply insane. Thinking that these people arent cheating you out of your money is crazy, the site has many layers of hidden programming all set up to take full adavantage of all types of players from novice to expert.
the main reason i wrote this blog is to expose the fraud that takes place at online gaming site known as Fulltilt poker i was fired three months ago from the company that helped write the software..yes i am bitter and mad but i do fell everyone so know how bad fulltilt is and that is a site built by THIEVES!!
Bob Smith just signed the petition, and he says something completely different than your post. wtf?
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:06 PM   #9571
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
I challenged the posters who I call "Protectors" to write or post any information they got to prove the poker sites are not rigged. So far nobody has posted anything. Not one scrap of evidence.
You are another lying liar that lies.

For two simple examples:

-I have repeatedly posted in here proof that rigging the flop/turn/river was impossible at PokerStars.

-Spadebidder has posted data that proves a fair distribution of cards on the flop.

You should stop lying. You should start being honest.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:40 PM   #9572
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
has a "level" feel to it since he has not proven he is anyone with actual data, though it does prove that people will babble, even when they make up stuff.

The fact you say that is your only proof means you are either joking or just kind of dumb when writing. As I said earlier though it does not matter which since if it is a joke to you, others do take the same position seriously.
I don't think twice of what you believe in. You are just one person. My chore is to imform as many people as I can to be careful. While playing for money online. If you are a non-believer then You got my blessing. I hope and pray for you to break the bank. If I can get the word out, maybe you will only have yourself to play with. I still play at Full Tilt but only in the play games. Its fun its entertaining, passes the time. I will never play for money again in any online poker site. I lost playing for money at Full Tilt, but not enough to ever worry about. It is less than a couple of $100 bills. I play with alive people only.
I enjoyed the challenge one faces on these boards, to get the public on your side. I and other people faced the same challenge on another board
http://www.pokerlistings.com/possibl...lt-poker-21428

At the start the "Protectors" were strong and insulting, but now the only posting are people who now agree they are being "Had" playing online. One after another are posting their feeling and committing themselves to not playing online. I feel I have won.

I feel it is somewhat a joke with these "Protectors" because if by chance, Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson, owners of Full Tilt and Tiltware, stepped up to the plate and yelled to the world, "Hey suckers, we been using rigged software and thanks for the great pile of money, ha, ha."

All the "Protectors" would reply, "Hey you a**hole, you say that because you can't play poker." Or, "You must be a ******, because you can't tell good software from bad software." Or, "I don,t believe you, you are making it up. Prove you are Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson." And lots more negative replys.

Here a question for you, if you where invited to a person's house to play poker. Upon arriving at the house, and sitting down at the table. A women drops two cards in front of and does the same to the rest of the people at table. Being brave you ask, "Where is the deck of cards." The owner say, "We decide to not have the deck on the table, my wife shuffles the deck and sets each person's cards out in the bedroom, same with the flop, turn and river." My question, "How long would you stay and play in this game?" Myself, I would be out of there so fast it would surprise everyone.

Yet you sit in an online game, don't see a dealer, don't see anybody's faces and you play, feeling safe.

Good luck to you and your future.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:49 PM   #9573
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
If you are a non-believer then You got my blessing. I hope and pray for you to break the bank.
??? Poker is not a game played against the house.

Prayer has been shown totally ineffective at impacting any outcome of any phenomenon it's been tested against (in sufficiently controlled, blinded studies of sufficient size.) So, you might want to save yourself the effort.

Quote:
At the start the "Protectors" were strong and insulting, but now the only posting are people who now agree they are being "Had" playing online. One after another are posting their feeling and committing themselves to not playing online. I feel I have won.
Reading comprehension problems?

Quote:
I feel it is somewhat a joke with these "Protectors" because if by chance, Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson, owners of Full Tilt and Tiltware, stepped up to the plate and yelled to the world, "Hey suckers, we been using rigged software and thanks for the great pile of money, ha, ha."

All the "Protectors" would reply, "Hey you a**hole, you say that because you can't play poker." Or, "You must be a ******, because you can't tell good software from bad software." Or, "I don,t believe you, you are making it up. Prove you are Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson." And lots more negative replys.

Here a question for you, if you where invited to a person's house to play poker. Upon arriving at the house, and sitting down at the table. A women drops two cards in front of and does the same to the rest of the people at table. Being brave you ask, "Where is the deck of cards." The owner say, "We decide to not have the deck on the table, my wife shuffles the deck and sets each person's cards out in the bedroom, same with the flop, turn and river." My question, "How long would you stay and play in this game?" Myself, I would be out of there so fast it would surprise everyone.
How about we modify the scenario so that:
1) the hosts have no financial stake in the outcome of the hands
2) the mechinism for the shuffle and deal has been 3rd party certified and you yourself can inspect the design of the mechism's blueprints even if you cannot watch it perform since that occurs on a near atomic level
3) millions of hands of already been dealt and shown to be random to any level of significance tested

Why do you never directly reply to posts? Each time you post as if it's in a void instead of a conversation?

Last edited by AaronT; 10-19-2009 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:54 PM   #9574
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Old moose: I've previously suggested that you read the entire thread, and that the arguments you are looking for are contained therein.

Your response is that no one has posted any arguments, and you've one.

Now, I'm 90% sure you're a level, and if you are, I'll admit you're a good one and pretty funny.

But if you are serious, then read the whole thread, ignore the filler, and focus on the substantive posts. There's a ton of information there on how to spot if rigging might be going on. It's much more complicated than you think. Not the rigging: that's the easy part, of course anyone can do it. The hard part is doing it in a manner that avoids detection; that is very hard to do, if its going to result in actually more profit for the site.

Then come back and join the discussion if you want.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:57 PM   #9575
KingOfFelt
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronT View Post

Why do you never directly reply to posts? Each time you post as if it's in a void instead of a conversation?
Yeah, it's kind of like he has a form answer and just slightly modifies it. I'd just ignore him though, clearly he isn't a rational thinker. I'd compare him to a mentally ill person on the street just ranting about the end of the world.
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