Two Plus Two Poker Forums The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
 Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read TwoPlusTwo.com

 Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

 View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged? Yes 3,444 34.94% No 5,522 56.02% Undecided 892 9.05% Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

10-19-2009, 03:54 AM   #9551
old_moose
enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 81
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by otatop Modern RNGs don't use seed numbers. This was most recently discussed within the last few pages.
I admit I'm somewhat behind the times, but whats the different. Example, if the seed number was generatered by the amount of seconds since the begin of 1990. I could with some help figure the seed number out. So I don't really see the differents, if I put the seed number in or if I know how the seed numbers is calculated. it should be the same. I know it kind of far fetch to think somebody would sit with a calculator to figure what cards are coming out. I don't think the RNG does pump the cards out, but only numbers from 1 to 52. After the software would take the numbers (There would be a scale, example 1-13 = spades ace being 1, 14 -26 = hearts with 14 being the ace., 27 - 41= clubs 27 being the aces and so on.) using the scale a card is born.
The RNG at Full Tilt pumps out numbers constantly. How many per second? Mostlikely plenty.

You should take a peek at
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/FullTilt

There they got a petition going on against Full Tilt. As far as I can see, they are seeking 50,000 signature on the petition. They got about 52 now. It going to be interesting to see what happens here.

Best Take care

 10-19-2009, 03:56 AM #9552 cantwinanymore11 stranger   Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1 Re: Everleaf network seems to be that on this network about 7 differnt players always win, no matter how far they are behind. These same players seem to call at the perfect time to hit exactly what they need. It doesnt matter if they have 1 out they hit it, and flush draws, they hit everysingle one. I cant even get a hand to hold up there anymore. Site used to be awesome, now its rediculous and the games are a no win situation.
10-19-2009, 04:19 AM   #9553
qpw
banned

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose Example, if the seed number was generatered by the amount of seconds since the begin of 1990. I could with some help figure the seed number out.
However as (if they use that scheme) it's much more likely to be the number of microseconds since the last game ended you really wouldn't be able to figure it out.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose You should take a peek at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/FullTilt There they got a petition going on against Full Tilt. As far as I can see, they are seeking 50,000 signature on the petition. They got about 52 now. It going to be interesting to see what happens here.
Apart from the complete nonsense talked in the guff about the petition, who exactly are they petitioning?

10-19-2009, 05:11 AM   #9554
Pyromantha
veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,228
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose I admit I'm somewhat behind the times, but whats the different. Example, if the seed number was generatered by the amount of seconds since the begin of 1990. I could with some help figure the seed number out. So I don't really see the differents, if I put the seed number in or if I know how the seed numbers is calculated.
The difference is a modern RNG *****does not use seed numbers*****
There is no seed number to figure out. Is that clear now?

10-19-2009, 12:10 PM   #9555
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsGambool If only there was a site that used real cards instead of software, amirite? Some sort of "Real Deal" maybe?
I hope you haven't been holding your breath for their exclusive freerolls.

10-19-2009, 12:39 PM   #9556
Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LetsGambool If only there was a site that used real cards instead of software, amirite? Some sort of "Real Deal" maybe?
This single-question poll:

which is created by and linked from the corporate website of the guys trying to set up RealDealPoker ( http://www.gioiasystems.com/about-gioia.html )
gives some indication of the awesome brainpower at work on the project. High-paid work, that.

10-19-2009, 02:31 PM   #9557
qpw
banned

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by spadebidder This single-question poll: http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1385125 which is created by and linked from the corporate website of the guys trying to set up RealDealPoker ( http://www.gioiasystems.com/about-gioia.html ) gives some indication of the awesome brainpower at work on the project. High-paid work, that.
ROFLMAO.

What were they expecting from the result?

I had to vote 'I just want to play'.

10-19-2009, 02:34 PM   #9558
AaronT
grinder

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 459
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by qpw ROFLMAO. What were they expecting from the result? I had to vote 'I just want to play'.
It doesn't matter how you vote. I googled on this guy "John Doe" who wrote the code for the poll and rigged the results.

10-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #9559
Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by qpw ROFLMAO. What were they expecting from the result? I had to vote 'I just want to play'.

• Gioia Systems is set to revolutionize online poker with patented systems and technology. • The gaming market demands a solution to the perception of unfair gaming. Gioia Systems is the solution! • Global gaming market has tremendous growth potential. • Gioia Gaming Systems will be the catalyst for igniting significant online poker growth.

 10-19-2009, 02:57 PM #9560 smithcommajohn grinder     Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: acceptance Posts: 533 re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition whatever happened to that RealDealPoker thing anyway? that's been under like permanent construction... makes you worry about how they'll do if they ever do get up and running...
 10-19-2009, 03:16 PM #9561 Monteroy Carpal \'Tunnel   Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 14,035 re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition I kind of missed all that drama at the time, but as a concept it seems really limiting since it slows down the games a ton, and would only appeal to weird riggedologists until they got bad beat (which has to happen) and they start seeing patterns (which has to happen). A strategy based upon appealing to paranoid fickle people is not the easiest to understand. Plus the market is so saturated that any new entry is going to have a very, very hard time to compete unless they have a ton of money (ie: if US regulates it and big casinos create rooms).
10-19-2009, 03:26 PM   #9562
smithcommajohn
grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: acceptance
Posts: 533
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Monteroy I kind of missed all that drama at the time, but as a concept it seems really limiting since it slows down the games a ton, and would only appeal to weird riggedologists until they got bad beat (which has to happen) and they start seeing patterns (which has to happen). A strategy based upon appealing to paranoid fickle people is not the easiest to understand. Plus the market is so saturated that any new entry is going to have a very, very hard time to compete unless they have a ton of money (ie: if US regulates it and big casinos create rooms).
Bad beats will most definitely occur, just like they do in the casino. If there was only some way to rig the cards so that blanks came on the turn and river!!

That's it! The anti-rig poker website that always has blanks hit! Best hand on the flop wins every time! ©2009 smithcommajohn

10-19-2009, 03:33 PM   #9563
Bingo_Boy
old hand

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,872
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose You should take a peek at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/FullTilt

"Stop Full Tilt Poker From There Proven Scam"

Rigtard logic, spelling and grammar summed up in the petition title. Good stuff.

Petition started: July 6th 2009
Supporters: 54
Goal: 50, 000
Full tilt shut down imminent:~= mid-23rd century

10-19-2009, 03:42 PM   #9564
Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy "Stop Full Tilt Poker From There Proven Scam" Rigtard logic, spelling and grammar summed up in the petition title. Good stuff.
That title is amazing. It's either a genius of a level, or created by a true rigtard in every sense of the word. It's better than the "morans" sign imo.

10-19-2009, 03:50 PM   #9565
Bingo_Boy
old hand

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,872
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose I don't know why you called me a pathetic cheating scumbag. Is it because I used some software in a game? If so, do you also call Full Tilt a pathetic cheating scumbag because they use software also.
They use software in order to provide their customers a service. You use software to cheat their other customers, in contravention of the terms and conditions you agreed to when you joined the site.

I called you a scumbag because you have posted accusations of cheating here with no proof, then admitted to cheating yourself.

I called you pathetic because you seem to see absolutely nothing wrong with this and because you keep posting drivel about RNGs, software etc which you seem to think is informative but sounds as though it was written by someone 1/10th your age.

10-19-2009, 04:55 PM   #9566
Josem
human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 17,957
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy "Stop Full Tilt Poker From There Proven Scam"
Let's also think about the concept of seeking popular endorsement for something that is "proven"

 10-19-2009, 05:17 PM #9568 Tissy187 adept     Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ski Slope of a Graph /\ Posts: 723 re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition I have had Pocket Aces 51 times, lost 4 times and won 47 times for a profit of \$98.99 (Win percentage of 92.2%) I have had Pocket Kings 62 times, lost 7 times won 55 times for a profit of \$187.86 (Win percentage of 87.1) I have had Pocket Queens 65 times, lost 6 times won 59 times for a profit of \$58.45 (Win percentage of 90.8%) Pwned /Thread
10-19-2009, 05:27 PM   #9569
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,035
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose I challenged the posters who I call "Protectors" to write or post any information they got to prove the poker sites are not rigged. So far nobody has posted anything. Not one scrap of evidence.
I'll make you a deal. Once you prove to me that Lizard People do not exist and I will prove to you that mystical forces are not at work at online sites. Since this is how proof works in your world (ie: disproving a negative), it should be easy.

Be sure to write your proof in FORTRAN.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose They also ask me to post my evidence, well I have only the following. Which is well broadcasted across the Internet. It is written by Bob Smith.
This has a "level" feel to it since he has not proven he is anyone with actual data, though it does prove that people will babble, even when they make up stuff.

The fact you say that is your only proof means you are either joking or just kind of dumb when writing. As I said earlier though it does not matter which since if it is a joke to you, others do take the same position seriously.

10-19-2009, 06:04 PM   #9570
NFuego20
Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 4,295
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Bob Smith just signed the petition, and he says something completely different than your post. wtf?

10-19-2009, 06:06 PM   #9571
Josem
human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 17,957
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose I challenged the posters who I call "Protectors" to write or post any information they got to prove the poker sites are not rigged. So far nobody has posted anything. Not one scrap of evidence.
You are another lying liar that lies.

For two simple examples:

-I have repeatedly posted in here proof that rigging the flop/turn/river was impossible at PokerStars.

-Spadebidder has posted data that proves a fair distribution of cards on the flop.

You should stop lying. You should start being honest.

10-19-2009, 06:40 PM   #9572
old_moose
enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 81
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Monteroy has a "level" feel to it since he has not proven he is anyone with actual data, though it does prove that people will babble, even when they make up stuff. The fact you say that is your only proof means you are either joking or just kind of dumb when writing. As I said earlier though it does not matter which since if it is a joke to you, others do take the same position seriously.
I don't think twice of what you believe in. You are just one person. My chore is to imform as many people as I can to be careful. While playing for money online. If you are a non-believer then You got my blessing. I hope and pray for you to break the bank. If I can get the word out, maybe you will only have yourself to play with. I still play at Full Tilt but only in the play games. Its fun its entertaining, passes the time. I will never play for money again in any online poker site. I lost playing for money at Full Tilt, but not enough to ever worry about. It is less than a couple of \$100 bills. I play with alive people only.
I enjoyed the challenge one faces on these boards, to get the public on your side. I and other people faced the same challenge on another board
http://www.pokerlistings.com/possibl...lt-poker-21428

At the start the "Protectors" were strong and insulting, but now the only posting are people who now agree they are being "Had" playing online. One after another are posting their feeling and committing themselves to not playing online. I feel I have won.

I feel it is somewhat a joke with these "Protectors" because if by chance, Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson, owners of Full Tilt and Tiltware, stepped up to the plate and yelled to the world, "Hey suckers, we been using rigged software and thanks for the great pile of money, ha, ha."

All the "Protectors" would reply, "Hey you a**hole, you say that because you can't play poker." Or, "You must be a ******, because you can't tell good software from bad software." Or, "I don,t believe you, you are making it up. Prove you are Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson." And lots more negative replys.

Here a question for you, if you where invited to a person's house to play poker. Upon arriving at the house, and sitting down at the table. A women drops two cards in front of and does the same to the rest of the people at table. Being brave you ask, "Where is the deck of cards." The owner say, "We decide to not have the deck on the table, my wife shuffles the deck and sets each person's cards out in the bedroom, same with the flop, turn and river." My question, "How long would you stay and play in this game?" Myself, I would be out of there so fast it would surprise everyone.

Yet you sit in an online game, don't see a dealer, don't see anybody's faces and you play, feeling safe.

Good luck to you and your future.

10-19-2009, 06:49 PM   #9573
AaronT
grinder

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 459
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by old_moose If you are a non-believer then You got my blessing. I hope and pray for you to break the bank.
??? Poker is not a game played against the house.

Prayer has been shown totally ineffective at impacting any outcome of any phenomenon it's been tested against (in sufficiently controlled, blinded studies of sufficient size.) So, you might want to save yourself the effort.

Quote:
 At the start the "Protectors" were strong and insulting, but now the only posting are people who now agree they are being "Had" playing online. One after another are posting their feeling and committing themselves to not playing online. I feel I have won.

Quote:
 I feel it is somewhat a joke with these "Protectors" because if by chance, Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson, owners of Full Tilt and Tiltware, stepped up to the plate and yelled to the world, "Hey suckers, we been using rigged software and thanks for the great pile of money, ha, ha." All the "Protectors" would reply, "Hey you a**hole, you say that because you can't play poker." Or, "You must be a ******, because you can't tell good software from bad software." Or, "I don,t believe you, you are making it up. Prove you are Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson." And lots more negative replys. Here a question for you, if you where invited to a person's house to play poker. Upon arriving at the house, and sitting down at the table. A women drops two cards in front of and does the same to the rest of the people at table. Being brave you ask, "Where is the deck of cards." The owner say, "We decide to not have the deck on the table, my wife shuffles the deck and sets each person's cards out in the bedroom, same with the flop, turn and river." My question, "How long would you stay and play in this game?" Myself, I would be out of there so fast it would surprise everyone.
How about we modify the scenario so that:
1) the hosts have no financial stake in the outcome of the hands
2) the mechinism for the shuffle and deal has been 3rd party certified and you yourself can inspect the design of the mechism's blueprints even if you cannot watch it perform since that occurs on a near atomic level
3) millions of hands of already been dealt and shown to be random to any level of significance tested

Why do you never directly reply to posts? Each time you post as if it's in a void instead of a conversation?

Last edited by AaronT; 10-19-2009 at 06:57 PM.

 10-19-2009, 06:54 PM #9574 Arouet Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,433 re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Old moose: I've previously suggested that you read the entire thread, and that the arguments you are looking for are contained therein. Your response is that no one has posted any arguments, and you've one. Now, I'm 90% sure you're a level, and if you are, I'll admit you're a good one and pretty funny. But if you are serious, then read the whole thread, ignore the filler, and focus on the substantive posts. There's a ton of information there on how to spot if rigging might be going on. It's much more complicated than you think. Not the rigging: that's the easy part, of course anyone can do it. The hard part is doing it in a manner that avoids detection; that is very hard to do, if its going to result in actually more profit for the site. Then come back and join the discussion if you want.
10-19-2009, 06:57 PM   #9575
KingOfFelt
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Coast
Posts: 7,233
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
 Originally Posted by AaronT Why do you never directly reply to posts? Each time you post as if it's in a void instead of a conversation?
Yeah, it's kind of like he has a form answer and just slightly modifies it. I'd just ignore him though, clearly he isn't a rational thinker. I'd compare him to a mentally ill person on the street just ranting about the end of the world.

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules
 Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Poker News & Discussion     News, Views, and Gossip     Poker Blogs and Goals     Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance     YouTube Podcasts & Twitch Streams     General Poker Discussion Online Poker Sites & Marketplaces     Online Poker Sites         Discussion of Poker Sites         Global Poker         BetOnline.ag     Coaches & Schools         Seeking Coaching         Study Groups         General Coaching & Schools Discussion     Staking         Offering Stakes         Seeking Stakes         Selling Shares - Live         Selling Shares - Online         Staking Rails     Poker Software         General Software Discussion     General Marketplace     Transaction Feedback & Disputes Live Poker     Las Vegas Lifestyle     Venues & Communities     Tournament Events         WPT.com     Home Poker     Casino & Cardroom Poker Poker Strategy     Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash     Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash     No Limit Tournaments         Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos     Mid-High Stakes MTT     Omaha         Omaha/8     Other Poker Games         Mid-High Stakes Limit         Micro-Small Stakes Limit         Stud     Psychology     Books and Publications     Poker Theory & GTO     Beginners and General Questions 2+2 Communities     Other Other Topics         OOTV     The Lounge: Discussion+Review     BBV4Life         omg omg omg     House of Blogs Sports and Games     Sporting Events         Single-Team Season Threads         Fantasy Sports     Sports Betting     Fantasy Sports         Sporting Events     Wrestling     Golf     Chess and Other Board Games         Backgammon Forum hosted by Bill Robertie.     Video Games         League of Legends         Hearthstone     Puzzles and Other Games Other Topics     Politics and Society     Business, Finance, and Investing     History     Health and Fitness     Travel     Science, Math, and Philosophy     Religion, God, and Theology     Laughs or Links!     Probability     Other Gambling Games     Computer and Technical Help Two Plus Two     About the Forums

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:50 PM.

 Contact Us - Two Plus Two Publishing LLC - Privacy Statement - Top