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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:50 AM   #9501
smithcommajohn
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99 View Post
The other day I posted my depressing set-flopping statistics. Shortly after that I played a brief, 45 minute session and managed to flop a couple of sets in the space of 240 hands. In one of them, I won 78 bbs. In the other one...


Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $10.35
BTN: $14.30
Hero (SB): $10.00
BB: $5.00
UTG: $8.60

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 5 5
1 fold, CO calls $0.10, BTN raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.15, BB raises to $0.60, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($2.40) 2 5 9 (4 players)
Hero bets $1, BB folds, CO calls $1, BTN calls $1

Hit my set but it's a very dry flop. I toss out a small bet, hoping someone caught a piece of it and is willing to come along, maybe with a weird straight draw of some kind.

Turn: ($5.40) J (3 players)
Hero bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50, BTN folds

The turn didn't help any straight draws, but maybe one of my opponents is playing something like A9 or K9, which has now become 2nd pair. I decide on another half pot bet, hoping to look like I missed and am firing a 2nd barrel.

River: ($10.40) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $5.90 all in, CO calls $5.90

CO came along with me on the turn bet, so I'm thinking overpair, 2 pair, top or 2nd pair, or just AK or something like that. A slow-played set over set is always a possibility, but it's too late to worry about that -- the pot's too big to let it go for fear of a bigger set. There are plenty of worse hands that can call me getting almost 3 to 1, so I get it all in.

Spoiler:


Villain, who had just joined the table 5 hands prior to this one, now leaves the table, galloping off into the night, cackling wildly. I'm left sitting there, chin in hand, staring at the screen and thinking how much better it would have been if I could have managed to not flop that set.
damn, weevil99, that's pretty rough... when setting a trap, you invite people to come along... unfortunately, that can backfire... they probably saw it like this:

on the flop... i can call and hope to hit one of my overcards (i don't like this, but people do it all the time)
on the turn... open ended straight draw, sweet... call
on the river... nut straight, why is this guy shoving into me? call
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:39 PM   #9502
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weevil99 View Post
The other day I posted my depressing set-flopping statistics. Shortly after that I played a brief, 45 minute session and managed to flop a couple of sets in the space of 240 hands. In one of them, I won 78 bbs. In the other one...


Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $10.35
BTN: $14.30
Hero (SB): $10.00
BB: $5.00
UTG: $8.60

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 5 5
1 fold, CO calls $0.10, BTN raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.15, BB raises to $0.60, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($2.40) 2 5 9 (4 players)
Hero bets $1, BB folds, CO calls $1, BTN calls $1

Hit my set but it's a very dry flop. I toss out a small bet, hoping someone caught a piece of it and is willing to come along, maybe with a weird straight draw of some kind.

Turn: ($5.40) J (3 players)
Hero bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50, BTN folds

The turn didn't help any straight draws, but maybe one of my opponents is playing something like A9 or K9, which has now become 2nd pair. I decide on another half pot bet, hoping to look like I missed and am firing a 2nd barrel.

River: ($10.40) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $5.90 all in, CO calls $5.90

CO came along with me on the turn bet, so I'm thinking overpair, 2 pair, top or 2nd pair, or just AK or something like that. A slow-played set over set is always a possibility, but it's too late to worry about that -- the pot's too big to let it go for fear of a bigger set. There are plenty of worse hands that can call me getting almost 3 to 1, so I get it all in.

Spoiler:


Villain, who had just joined the table 5 hands prior to this one, now leaves the table, galloping off into the night, cackling wildly. I'm left sitting there, chin in hand, staring at the screen and thinking how much better it would have been if I could have managed to not flop that set.
This kind of play happens at the .05/.10 games. Not surprising in the least
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:57 PM   #9503
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by whodeypdub View Post
This kind of play happens at the .05/.10 games. Not surprising in the least
I don't think Weevil was saying it was surprising, just life.

Personally I love it when that happens because I see it as an investment.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:52 PM   #9504
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
I don't think Weevil was saying it was surprising, just life.
Pretty much. I thought some might appreciate the irony of this happening after I posted such bad set-flopping stats. It's a sort of cautionary, be careful what you wish for, tale.

Quote:
Personally I love it when that happens because I see it as an investment.
Me too, but usually not right away.
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:03 PM   #9505
old_moose
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Does anyone have any idea as to how one might find the following stats.

Example; Maybe 20,000 games or ???
If they were at Full Tilt would be more than perfect

How many times pocket aces were dealt and won?
Same for the rest of the pairs?
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:23 PM   #9506
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Does anyone have any idea as to how one might find the following stats.

Example; Maybe 20,000 games or ???
If they were at Full Tilt would be more than perfect

How many times pocket aces were dealt and won?
Same for the rest of the pairs?
you can email support@pokerstars.com to get figures on how often you have been dealt and won with AA over the last month or so.

alternatively, you can use software like poker tracker and do it yourself.
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:57 AM   #9507
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
you can email support@pokerstars.com to get figures on how often you have been dealt and won with AA over the last month or so.

alternatively, you can use software like poker tracker and do it yourself.
I thank you, I would just like to see, how good are these RNG

Best of luck to you.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:03 AM   #9508
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Does anyone have any idea as to how one might find the following stats.

Example; Maybe 20,000 games or ???
If they were at Full Tilt would be more than perfect

How many times pocket aces were dealt and won?
Same for the rest of the pairs?
If you don't have PokerTracker, etc....PTR has this on their site.
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:02 AM   #9509
NFuego20
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Does anyone have any idea as to how one might find the following stats.

Example; Maybe 20,000 games or ???
If they were at Full Tilt would be more than perfect

How many times pocket aces were dealt and won?
Same for the rest of the pairs?
Forget that, just get the attention of public services, Bernard Madoff, etc, imo, ldo
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:56 AM   #9510
solucky
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Does anyone have any idea as to how one might find the following stats.

Example; Maybe 20,000 games or ???
If they were at Full Tilt would be more than perfect

How many times pocket aces were dealt and won?
Same for the rest of the pairs?
That looks random..they cant rigg in this way its too easy to detect.
They use other systems.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:23 AM   #9511
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by solucky View Post
That looks random..they cant rigg in this way its too easy to detect.
They use other systems.
Stated as a fact, not oppinion or belief.

Ummm... asserting something doesn't make it so.
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Old 10-18-2009, 12:39 PM   #9512
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
Does anyone have any idea as to how one might find the following stats.

Example; Maybe 20,000 games or ???
If they were at Full Tilt would be more than perfect

How many times pocket aces were dealt and won?
Same for the rest of the pairs?
20,000 hands is an extremely small sample size considering how many hands are dealt, even per day.

its funny because the largest sample size these sites release for investigation is right around 20,000....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
you can email support@pokerstars.com to get figures on how often you have been dealt and won with AA over the last month or so.

alternatively, you can use software like poker tracker and do it yourself.
how many times AA won in a month is irrelavent.

if AA raises on the button and everyone folds that counts as a win.

likewise, if players have QQ, JJ and AA and the flop comes A Q J and the case card doesnt come on the turn or river, that also counts as a win for AA.

do you see my point?
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:00 PM   #9513
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKART View Post
its funny because the largest sample size these sites release for investigation is right around 20,000....
IndianaV8 has a few orders of magnitude more hands, directly from the site.

Also, go and request your hands. Ironically, you'll get all of them, not just the last 20k.
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:05 PM   #9514
old_moose
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

On the Internet today, its quite common to find on boards that cater to online poker a debate regarding how honest online poker is?

I have a strong opinion, because software is used to deal the cards, it will never be honest or the same as a home game with real cards. Software will always be written to give the owner or site the advantage and be the favorite. This statement does not apply to Full Tilt only but to all gambling sites who use software. Even your online Bingo games.

If anyone does not agree to the facts, Full Tilt has written their software to benefit Full Tilt. Then I suggest, search the Internet with the search words "Bob Smith Full Tilt" or view the posting
#9396. After reading what "Bob Smith" has said, it should be all that is needed to convinces a person. Don't forget Tiltware and Full Tilt are the same people. Tiltware is or was a high powered software company with plenty of expertise in making software. Another thought, if NASA can bomb the moon by using software, to govern a poker game with software is a simple task for a knowledgeable software company. Yes Full Tilt has altered the software for their advantage.

I don't believe it is because they want to steal your money but to even the game out more so they can make more money from the rake. By keeping the money into circulation, they benefit greatly. A win/lose lose/win situations is a very profitable climate for Full Tilt or for any poker site.

I have notice that in the last year or so. More people complaining how they got busted with great pocket cards. Beat by pockets card, which I would consider to be folding hands only. After playing poker on this earth for most of my 72 years, its hard to stomach, when your pocket aces get crushed by such hands as 7 and 2. And it does not matter how you play your aces, its in the cards to break you.

Why does Full Tilt fix the software?
For money can be the first reason, but there another. BOTs, yes BOTs is what Full Tilt is trying to get rid of.

First let me declare myself as too my feeling about BOTs. I have paid good money to purchases a BOTs, which I will tell you about later in this posting. Full Tilt hates BOTs with a passion. I gather this from the instruction from the BOT maker, they instruct you to delete certain files on your computer if you are running their BOT. Full Tilt prowls your computer looking for BOTs. I wonder how much personal information they also take from your computer. Another incident, two players have Full Tilt in court because Full Tilt has confiscated $80,000 of their money, because they may have been using BOTs. Read up on it at
http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/full-t...-bot-use-5376/

My opinion is as follows, Full Tilt uses software and hardware to produce numbers. They have software which translates the numbers into cards, which is fair. They use software to move the cards to the table, (NOTE: they can add statements here to control what goes to the table). Therefore I think it is discriminatory, why can Full Tilt use software and forbids me from using software to play against their software. I hope the two players win big on their court case.

According to information from the Internet regarding BOTs, there are claims some poker tables there are up to 7 BOTs playing. BOTs are so popular now, about as popular as poker sites. BOTs are software and they will play a solid game. For example, the one I use, will not call the blind with pockets cards such as T A onsuit. I always do, providing there is no big raises. I want to see what the flop brings. If you program your BOT to just play pocket aces, kings or queens. Can you imagine how boring this kind of game would be, with 7 BOTs playing. In a low level game of 10 cent BB, a BOT with aces would raise 10 cents, the rest would fold. The house would get to rake 25 cents. At 12 hands per hour this would make the house (Using 3% for the rake???)9 cents per hour???
Not enough to pay for the electric the table computer used. Besides, I think these sites have a hugh expense of renting or leasing the RNG (They don't own the RNG, some other people own it and have the patent).

It is worth while to mention here, the BOT I use hides itself from the prowling eyes of Full Tilt. Therefore Full Tilt has to make other arrangements to defeat my BOT. Full Tilt is guilty of profiling players. By checking your user name, they have a lot of information on how you play.
Therefore if you go all-in, because you got pocker aces, look out. The software may think you are a BOT, and start rigging the hand for you to lose.

From my younger days playing in poker clubs, you could use the hit and run method of making money.
I figured I could do the same here online. Therefore I bought the best BOT on the go now. My thinking was as such, I would set the high stack level to $5.00, enter the BOT into a $2.00 buy-in game. Once it's stack got to $5.00 it would quit. Now the BOT I got can play 6 tables, but I only tried it on 4 tables, with the thinking if all hit, this would give me 4 X $5.00 = $20.00 less $8.00 buy-in with a profit of $12.00. $12 per day, times 30 days = $360.00 per month, I would make while sleeping. I never reached my goal, some nights I made some money but I never reach anything near $360 for a month. I aways checked the log to see why the BOT got knock out. And always it was a strange hand that did it and in most cases, it was the river card that did it. That tells me Full Tilt has a war on against BOT, and using rigged software to do it. Of course the real live player gets caught also.

Here is my future prediction on software ran poker games and software ran BOTs. Rigged software in poker games won't go away, BOTs will get more and more popular. In fact there are programmers today which are making add-on software for the BOTs to uses. The next step is this, the poker sites will create software which will find the config file for the BOT you are using. Where you might have config your BOT to play for $2.00, quit if you get to $5.00 or if you go broke. The software will re-write your config file to continue buying more chips, keep going until your account is cleaned out. So if you try what I did as above, you better not go to bed, because you may wake up in the morning with a empty account. Have fun walking the floor.

By the way, I know I am a ******, I know am crazy, dumb and all the other things. So nobaody has to tell me this, save you writing it.
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:48 PM   #9515
qpw
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
On the Internet today, its quite common to find on boards that cater to online poker a debate regarding how honest online poker is?

I have a strong opinion, because software is used to deal the cards, it will never be honest or the same as a home game with real cards. Software will always be written to give the owner or site the advantage and be the favorite. This statement does not apply to Full Tilt only but to all gambling sites who use software. Even your online Bingo games.

If anyone does not agree to the facts, Full Tilt has written their software to benefit Full Tilt. Then I suggest, search the Internet with the search words "Bob Smith Full Tilt" or view the posting
#9396. After reading what "Bob Smith" has said, it should be all that is needed to convinces a person. Don't forget Tiltware and Full Tilt are the same people. Tiltware is or was a high powered software company with plenty of expertise in making software. Another thought, if NASA can bomb the moon by using software, to govern a poker game with software is a simple task for a knowledgeable software company. Yes Full Tilt has altered the software for their advantage.

I don't believe it is because they want to steal your money but to even the game out more so they can make more money from the rake. By keeping the money into circulation, they benefit greatly. A win/lose lose/win situations is a very profitable climate for Full Tilt or for any poker site.

I have notice that in the last year or so. More people complaining how they got busted with great pocket cards. Beat by pockets card, which I would consider to be folding hands only. After playing poker on this earth for most of my 72 years, its hard to stomach, when your pocket aces get crushed by such hands as 7 and 2. And it does not matter how you play your aces, its in the cards to break you.

Why does Full Tilt fix the software?
For money can be the first reason, but there another. BOTs, yes BOTs is what Full Tilt is trying to get rid of.

First let me declare myself as too my feeling about BOTs. I have paid good money to purchases a BOTs, which I will tell you about later in this posting. Full Tilt hates BOTs with a passion. I gather this from the instruction from the BOT maker, they instruct you to delete certain files on your computer if you are running their BOT. Full Tilt prowls your computer looking for BOTs. I wonder how much personal information they also take from your computer. Another incident, two players have Full Tilt in court because Full Tilt has confiscated $80,000 of their money, because they may have been using BOTs. Read up on it at
http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/full-t...-bot-use-5376/

My opinion is as follows, Full Tilt uses software and hardware to produce numbers. They have software which translates the numbers into cards, which is fair. They use software to move the cards to the table, (NOTE: they can add statements here to control what goes to the table). Therefore I think it is discriminatory, why can Full Tilt use software and forbids me from using software to play against their software. I hope the two players win big on their court case.

According to information from the Internet regarding BOTs, there are claims some poker tables there are up to 7 BOTs playing. BOTs are so popular now, about as popular as poker sites. BOTs are software and they will play a solid game. For example, the one I use, will not call the blind with pockets cards such as T A onsuit. I always do, providing there is no big raises. I want to see what the flop brings. If you program your BOT to just play pocket aces, kings or queens. Can you imagine how boring this kind of game would be, with 7 BOTs playing. In a low level game of 10 cent BB, a BOT with aces would raise 10 cents, the rest would fold. The house would get to rake 25 cents. At 12 hands per hour this would make the house (Using 3% for the rake???)9 cents per hour???
Not enough to pay for the electric the table computer used. Besides, I think these sites have a hugh expense of renting or leasing the RNG (They don't own the RNG, some other people own it and have the patent).

It is worth while to mention here, the BOT I use hides itself from the prowling eyes of Full Tilt. Therefore Full Tilt has to make other arrangements to defeat my BOT. Full Tilt is guilty of profiling players. By checking your user name, they have a lot of information on how you play.
Therefore if you go all-in, because you got pocker aces, look out. The software may think you are a BOT, and start rigging the hand for you to lose.

From my younger days playing in poker clubs, you could use the hit and run method of making money.
I figured I could do the same here online. Therefore I bought the best BOT on the go now. My thinking was as such, I would set the high stack level to $5.00, enter the BOT into a $2.00 buy-in game. Once it's stack got to $5.00 it would quit. Now the BOT I got can play 6 tables, but I only tried it on 4 tables, with the thinking if all hit, this would give me 4 X $5.00 = $20.00 less $8.00 buy-in with a profit of $12.00. $12 per day, times 30 days = $360.00 per month, I would make while sleeping. I never reached my goal, some nights I made some money but I never reach anything near $360 for a month. I aways checked the log to see why the BOT got knock out. And always it was a strange hand that did it and in most cases, it was the river card that did it. That tells me Full Tilt has a war on against BOT, and using rigged software to do it. Of course the real live player gets caught also.

Here is my future prediction on software ran poker games and software ran BOTs. Rigged software in poker games won't go away, BOTs will get more and more popular. In fact there are programmers today which are making add-on software for the BOTs to uses. The next step is this, the poker sites will create software which will find the config file for the BOT you are using. Where you might have config your BOT to play for $2.00, quit if you get to $5.00 or if you go broke. The software will re-write your config file to continue buying more chips, keep going until your account is cleaned out. So if you try what I did as above, you better not go to bed, because you may wake up in the morning with a empty account. Have fun walking the floor.

By the way, I know I am a ******, I know am crazy, dumb and all the other things. So nobaody has to tell me this, save you writing it.
tl;dr but I'll bet it's a rigtard post.
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:54 PM   #9516
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
By the way, I know I am a ******, I know am crazy, dumb and all the other things. So nobaody has to tell me this, save you writing it.
How about a pathetic cheating scumbag. Did you know you're that too?

It seems that you are complaining that you have been playing poker for decades, still can't win and object to Full Tilt trying to stop people (you) using bots? Nobody is this stupid.

Aren't you rigtards embarrassed reading posts from other like minded individuals?
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:10 PM   #9517
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
tl;dr but I'll bet it's a rigtard post.
You should try and read it because it is a new low for the pro rigging brigade. He's basically the same as all the other rigtards but has thrown in the argument that he thinks Full Tilt are rigging the deal to stop bots winning too much, which he doesnt like because he uses bots and its hitting his profits.

Highlights include:

"After reading what "Bob Smith" has said, it should be all that is needed to convinces a person."

"After playing poker on this earth for most of my 72 years, its hard to stomach, when your pocket aces get crushed by such hands as 7 and 2. "

"why can Full Tilt use software and forbids me from using software to play against their software."

"In a low level game of 10 cent BB, a BOT with aces would raise 10 cents, the rest would fold. The house would get to rake 25 cents. At 12 hands per hour this would make the house (Using 3% for the rake???)9 cents per hour???
Not enough to pay for the electric the table computer used."

"From my younger days playing in poker clubs, you could use the hit and run method of making money.
I figured I could do the same here online. Therefore I bought the best BOT on the go now"
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:15 PM   #9518
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKART View Post
how many times AA won in a month is irrelavent.

if AA raises on the button and everyone folds that counts as a win.

likewise, if players have QQ, JJ and AA and the flop comes A Q J and the case card doesnt come on the turn or river, that also counts as a win for AA.

do you see my point?
Any chance you will ever figure out that if a site does rig their stuff it will not be on the AA hands where people pay the most attention?

Stick with all your antiquated rigged beliefs like action flops and new deposit boom switches till the end of time, but at least drop the inane AA stuff if you plan to modernize any of your manifesto one day.

Others can try to talk sense into you if they are up for the pointless challenge, I just ask for that tiny concession to common sense.

All the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy View Post
You should try and read it because it is a new low for the pro rigging brigade. He's basically the same as all the other rigtards but has thrown in the argument that he thinks Full Tilt are rigging the deal to stop bots winning too much, which he doesnt like because he uses bots and its hitting his profits.
Hmm, what about bots with ADD?
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:43 PM   #9519
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy View Post
You should try and read it because it is a new low for the pro rigging brigade. He's basically the same as all the other rigtards but has thrown in the argument that he thinks Full Tilt are rigging the deal to stop bots winning too much, which he doesnt like because he uses bots and its hitting his profits.
OK, I gave it a read.

It's got to be a level, hasn't it?
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:51 PM   #9520
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
OK, I gave it a read.

It's got to be a level, hasn't it?
Only if he copied and pasted it fom somewhere else. There is no way all that dross could have been written as a level.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:52 PM   #9521
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Complaining that it's rigged against bots? Wow. That's a new one.

What's this stuff about "level"?
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:55 PM   #9522
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithcommajohn View Post
Complaining that it's rigged against bots? Wow. That's a new one.

What's this stuff about "level"?
I think it's so brazen it's a level.
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:20 PM   #9523
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
I think it's so brazen it's a level.
A level of what? Total n00b question, I know.
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:31 PM   #9524
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_moose View Post
If anyone does not agree to the facts, Full Tilt has written their software to benefit Full Tilt. Then I suggest, search the Internet with the search words "Bob Smith Full Tilt" or view the posting
#9396. After reading what "Bob Smith" has said, it should be all that is needed to convinces a person.
For those keeping score at home:

-Billion hand database available to pretty much anyone showing that the games aren't rigged = shills and total lies

-Anonymous post from "Bob Smith" = 100% fact

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithcommajohn View Post
A level of what? Total n00b question, I know.
The term "level" really has two usages in these forums.

The first is to outsmart someone by thinking several steps ahead or above them. This comes from the idea that beginning players are on "Level 1 thinking" which is they only consider the value of their own hand and ignore everything else. Better players operate on "Level 2 thinking" which means they consider not only the value of their own cards but also the possible value of their opponent's cards. Even better players consider the value of their own cards, the possible value of their opponent's cards and what their opponent will think of the value of hero's cards. This is "Level 3 thinking".

This is a potentially infinite progression:

Level 1: What do I have?
Level 2: What does my opponent have?
Level 3: What does my opponent think I have?
Level 4: What does my opponent think that I think they have?
Level 5: What does my opponent think that I think they think I have?

This progression is illustrated amazingly well by this clip from The Princess Bride.

The other way "level" is used is synonymous with "joke". To imply that someone is gullible. That they're thinking one or several levels below everyone else because they fell for what was obviously a joke or sarcasm or parody.

If I say "Battlefield Earth" is the greatest movie ever made and you take that at face value and believe I'm being sincere then you have just been leveled. Everyone else knows I'm being sarcastic.
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Old 10-18-2009, 04:18 PM   #9525
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

A lot of people assume many of these posts are levels because they fit the "no way anyone can be this dumb" criteria. Reality is that many are simply that dumb or paranoid, or easily confused or obsessed about an issue that they lose any ability to rationally participate in a discussion about it.

Maybe once in a while it's a gimmick account doing a really dull "level" but most of these people are totally legit in their beliefs, and even if they happen to be a level they represent what a lot of people do actually think so it does not even matter if they specifically are a level.

You think some of these riggedologists are nuts, look at this thread

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...epathy-605439/

which eventually became a 9/11 "discussion."

Holy cow is all I can say, I tried messing around in that thread like I do here getting people to talk about Lizard People, the New World Order (conspiracy and wrestling variations) and all sorts of silly stuff when I realized I was so out of my league in terms of the weird extremes people are capable of creating in their own mind. I was trying to make up crazy funny stuff but I could not come close to the reality these people believe in.

Even the equivalent of the "shills" in that post make qpw seem like a perma calm guy :P
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