Oh really?

So those things shouldn't happen about once in every 200 to 500 tries? In other words pretty damn frequently.

I think poker might not be for you.

I think reading comprehension might not be for you. His point was that 1 in 200/ 1 in 500 events were happening at much more frequent rate on a consistent basis.

Not only that but when they do happen a significant amount of chips are at risk.

No, he didn't make that argument at all. He was describing a single hand, and said THE HAND probably was not legit because the outcome was 200-500 to 1.

Check your own comprehension

It means I'm open to the idea of the software not being rigged. Rigged is probably not the best term as it implies it is done purposefully. The software does not provide realistic expectation of outcomes, whether it is intentional or the result of programming error.

And keeping an open mind is all one can ask. It's certainly something the "rigtard" vitriol community could learn.

All kinds of room for doubt when nearly 50% of the two plus two forum has at least some issues with the software and various pokeroom site owners have already been caught cheating - 100%

Yes and let’s be clear here I’m talking about a single solitary site NOT ALL sites. Betonline, ACR, and global poker seemed fine.

Except for the fact that myself, and I'd wager that most of us "RIGGIES" are long term winning live pokers. It's not like we never played poker before.

But hey whatever fits your narrative.

The idea that online poker is filled with pros that demolish live poker and that's why we are losing, is so foolhardy.

Here's an example of a recent hand experience.

I have QQ. I raise to 5X BB from middle position. Villain from the button hesitates and then shoves all in.

I think to myself using LOGIC and COMMON SENSE that it doesn't make sense to shove here with Kings or Aces. Ace King makes a lot more sense and I've got the odds to call.

Cards flip up, villain has pocket Aces!

Queen comes on the river. I found this unlikely but hey I will take it as this happens so often against me.

Villian (chatting) THAT WAS THE DUMBEST CALL IN THE HISTORY OF POKER.
FISH

Me: I didn't think you had Aces, why are you going all in? if I don't have a premium hand here I have to fold.

Villain SHUT UP STUPID FISH

Yeah these guys sure do know how to play poker.

And there are people with claims about all those sites like you have re wsop. They also have no scientific data to backup their claims.

There is some extremely dimwitted poster, MJK or something that rants about having solid proof that ACR is rigged. He just doesnt have HH in PT4 to get the evidence. He posts the claim everywhere and Bobo or Haven have been good enough to move the nonsense to this thread.

Every site has a cadre of players sure the site is rigged.

ACR/WPN has to be one of the most legit operations in existence. I know of no other site that posts a list of cheaters and allows users to download an excel spread sheet with what games they were playing and what amounts were refunded and their screen names.

WSOP on the other hand blatantly denies any and all bot usage on their site even though their security department is a joke. In fact they list nothing on their website about what measures they take to keep players safe.

Yet, there is an extensive database of proof of a bot ring on the site. They continued to play for a long time. They cleaned up a lot, but like every site they still have some issues. Every month some dullard claims superuser or some other nonsense on WPN, including house bots. A year ago or so, Joey Ingram had a video about the bots and mentioned some accounts that were "clearly bots, I mean how much more proof do you need". Two of those accounts are in our group, vocal throughout the game when they play and have posted screenshots for hand discussions, very very clearly not bots. There was not proof, just feelz based on a SharkScope graph.

Without the evidence, no one credible will ever believe any riggie theory. The biggest reason is none have ever been correct. Some genius posted a dozen times that PokerStars was going out of business a day or two ago, because feelz.

The most successful business model is one that is long lasting. Networks font need to develop some fancy rig. The shady ones outright steal the money, see Lock and Full Flush.

Two reasons I wouldn't be familiar with it. First of all, like most people, I've never read a technical paper about RNG programs. Secondly, in spite of that, I don't think this is correct. I don't see how the seed is directly related to the combinations in a deck. The seed is simply the input that is used for an RNG to generate results, and the main different between a PRNG and an HRNG is that the hardware RNG uses a physical process that generates a completely unpredictable seed, whereas a pseudo RNG relies on a software-generated seed. The RNG then provides the output to determine the "shuffle" or the order of a virtual deck. A seed % being a % of all possible combinations of the deck makes no sense to me - perhaps you can provide a link to one of these technical papers?

This statement makes me wonder if you're conflating a couple of topics. PRNGs are understood to not be able to achieve perfect randomness. It can be good enough that no one would be able to observe a pattern or predict outcomes, but it's not perfect. That's why some sites use an additional external input (sometimes multiple inputs) to ensure true randomness. So, I'm not sure what you mean by "simulate exactly what a live dealer can do", but if you mean there must be a discernible difference between the two (live and online deal), that would lead to different results at the poker table, no, I don't believe that's correct.

An interesting, and amusing observation.

There's probably no site that gets more criticism on our forums than WPN, and a lot of that is centered around how they handle bots. As for WSOP, I don't know how many people I've seen post that if we only had regulated poker (by which they mean regulated in the US), they, or riggies, wouldn't be able to complain any longer. I've always said that wouldn't change a thing; nothing will ever stop someone from thinking a site is rigged. There is no such thing, and never will be, as a poker site that will never be called rigged by someone, once enough players play there.

Not expecting that would affect your opinion, nor should it; just an amusig (to me anyway) observation.

You're correct, his post was utter nonsense. A properly coded prng will generate the complete set of all possible values no matter what seed (starting point) is used.

The original Planet Poker prng had a coding problem, not a seed problem. It did omit a small portion of the possible combinations, but this did not result in a non-fair poker deal. The problem with it was that it was predictable using computer software and timers.

Flawed RNGs in general, to the extent that they may still exist, aren't likely to result in a an unfair poker deal, as any flaws in them are completely unrelated to the specific patterns required by the game of poker.

An RNG doesn't generate poker deals, it generates random numbers unrelated to any game. The game software just uses those random numbers to create a shuffled deck, period. A flawed one causing more quads to be dealt would be akin to monkeys typing on typewriters and ending up with this sentence.

If there is a poker site that has an unfair deal, it isn't because they did something to the RNG, it's because they put coding in the dealing software to deal something other than the next card in the shuffled deck.

This something I've been saying on and off in this thread for over a decade.

It's essentially impossible to 'rig' the RNG because the RNG has no idea what any given number will be used for.

If you wanted to rig the deal, then you would simply ignore the RNG and use whatever numbers you required.

But, of course, the rigtards ignore this fairly obvious piece of logic because , I think, they are happier making a vague statement that 'there is something wrong with the RNG', than a specific, definite, assertion that a site is tampering with the deal.

This of course true but I pointed it out mainly for the riggies who hem-haw about whether it's a rig and just want to blame a "faulty" RNG or lack of "good" RNG, for their bad beats. It's just not possible that happens regularly due to a faulty RNG. The RNG doesn't know how to play poker and a bad virtual shuffle doesn't cause more bad beats. An RNG creates the deck from scratch every time, unlike live dealing that can preserve clusters. So they need to just man up and say they think the site is cheating instead of couching it in this false narrative.

Yup, this is it in nutshell. But this moran ****** doesn't get it!

Think how it looks for 90% of the fish, they keep sucking out hand after hand, and are having great fun, because they are either winning or small losers, depending how much the rng grants them.

Now look at it from the 5-10% of players that (probably less, as some winning players won't experience the worst of the worst rng scam)

Naturally it looks **** for them, but why care about the minority of players, what the **** are they gunna do, STOP PLAYING THE LIVE GAMES??

You imbecile moron! Yeah, that's exactly what the WSOP wants, they want winning players to stop playing hence why they ~R~I~G the deck online!

Meanwhile it all looks fine and dandy for the 90% of players that the WSOP actually wants to cater too!

My God, some people are just that ****ing DUMB!

Of course its a SCAM!

You're the best thing to happen in public forums. Anyone that feels their life sucks, have missed out, of feels lost should just read your commentary and they'll instantly feel better about themselves.

Dont ever change White Gatsby, no matter how bad the day is going, we can all just laugh at you and feel better.

You're a ****ing loser kid!

Deep down you want to kill yourself as you know you can't really win at anything unless you cheat!

Dirty inbred scammer, that' all you're good at, scamming!

Atta boy! You got this, get all 8 brain cells pumping and get a real edgy reply next!

Not to take away from other riggie stuff, I'll stop responding to you. Feel free to continue to showcase your stupidity.

I had always suspected that online poker was rigged, but this thread has helped disprove that concern of mine.

However, it now appears that live poker is rigged. Look at the bad beats Phil Helmuth suffered. No way live poker isn't rigged!

https://www.highstakesdb.com/10271-p...eat-story.aspx

Welcome to the club! Fake riggie troll getting way too much attention IMO.

.

The idiots scammers in here trying so hard to prove their point!

It's like people going into a flat earthers thread and yelling at everybody, calling them crazy!

Why so insecure? If it was truly legit, would you really be trying so hard to mock and disprove everybody in this thread?

Fact is the RNG is flawed, by default it can't truly distribute a random deal!
Fact is "somebody" can control the rng and deal whatever card they want!
Fact is either the programmers themselves or some 3rd party hacker can control the RNG!

Fact is even if that's not the case, they will still collude, superuser, scam, bot and cheat you!

FACT is online poker is a scam!

Fact is they control the rng, so they have a sustainable business!

Facts are facts!!

Tell us more about your beliefs that the Earth is flat. That could be fun.

All the best.

He never said the earth was flat.

Love the affiliate circle jerk in this thread.

You really are even too dumb to read correctly! You really expect me to believe you could actually beat me in poker legit? Hahahhah, you idiot moron!

Keep scamming me, eventually karma will get you, I promise!

The affiliate anti riggers are ***** clowns.

I remember years ago I believe it was here on 2+2 someone posted an extensive hand history evaluation. Was something like 100k hands. The affiliate scumbags said it wasn’t enough and that 100k hands was a joke. They asked him to post 2 million hands or more and if he didn’t he was a sore loser tin foil hat idiot.