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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:22 PM   #8526
Markusgc
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Also, and I don't think this "coincidence" can be overlooked, but the person to my right at the back to back AA table? "AArules"!
[x] convinced
[x] thoroughly
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:48 PM   #8527
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Re: Interesting set of hands...

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Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
And your new avatar is severely tilting me out, plz to be change?
It entertains me everytime I see it, but yes, I will probably change now that I know how to make avatars from videos.
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:56 PM   #8528
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

An interesting hand took place in an Omaha DoN today that really showed how a cycle of rigged beliefs can be formed that eventually create completely bad (in terms of EV) habits that eventually re-enforce those very beliefs.

After the hand a couple players laughed at it wondering how it did not go all in on the flop (note, my flop bet was a mis-click in a way as I moved the slider over for what I thought was a full pot bet but somehow only moved it to 120, but really the bet size was unimportant for this issue).

The opponent explained that he knows the boards will pair too much on Stars so he has learned to play it slow until he knows his hand is good.

Thus, he gave up a huge +EV freeroll opportunity and even if he actually hit his flush (or even a boat on the river) he would have not extracted any real value from it as a result.

It's spots like this which is why some players lose, or win a lot less, then they should and it adds up (though in this hand it would still be a chop).

After the hand he was totally convinced he played it correctly because the board did pair after all. He will continue to repeat the behavior and it is one of the many reasons why his general results are shall we say not great.

In his mind though it was never his fault, he did the right thing by playing with the software's behavior as a key factor.

Ignore his weird tiny river bet, he tends to play kind of backwards.


Poker Stars $10.00+$0.40 Pot Limit Omaha Hi Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: t1185 M = 26.33
BB: t1535 M = 34.11
UTG: t1350 M = 30
UTG+1: t1810 M = 40.22
UTG+2: t1470 M = 32.67
MP1: t1780 M = 39.56
MP2: t1270 M = 28.22
MP3: t1450 M = 32.22
CO: t1585 M = 35.22
Hero (BTN): t1565 M = 34.78

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN with K T 9 J
4 folds, MP2 calls t30, 2 folds, Hero raises to t135, 2 folds, MP2 calls t105

Flop: (t315) A T Q (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets t120, MP2 calls t120

Turn: (t555) Q (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: (t555) 4 (2 players)
MP2 bets t60, Hero calls t60

Final Pot: t675
MP2 shows J K 5 K (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Hero shows K T 9 J (a straight, Ten to Ace)
MP2 wins t338
Hero wins t337



Also in a single NL tournament today these hands took place. What happened in hand 1 happens to me about once a year and it nearly happened twice in the same sit and go.

With the same hands.

To top it off, the final hand of the same tournament had me beating the same hand again (in terms of rank).

Weird stuff like this happens all the time, so it is funny when in contrast we see single 2-1 type hands or 2 outers posted as "proof." Those happen every few minutes if you play enough tables (as they should).


Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t2600 M = 11.56
CO: t2005 M = 8.91
BTN: t4200 M = 18.67
Hero (SB): t1000 M = 4.44
BB: t3695 M = 16.42

Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is SB with T A
2 folds, BTN calls t150, Hero raises to t1000 all in, 1 fold, BTN calls t850

Flop: (t2150) 8 2 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t2150) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t2150) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t2150
BTN shows A T (high card Ace)
Hero shows T A (a flush, Ace high)
Hero wins t2150


Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds + t25 - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: t3525 M = 9.40
Hero (BB): t2700 M = 7.20
BTN: t7275 M = 19.40

Pre Flop: (t375) Hero is BB with A T
1 fold, SB raises to t600, Hero raises to t2675 all in, SB calls t2075

Flop: (t5425) 3 2 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t5425) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t5425) K (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t5425
SB shows A T (high card Ace)
Hero shows A T (high card Ace)
SB wins t2713
Hero wins t2712




Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t25 - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN/SB: t3601 M = 5.54
Hero (BB): t9899 M = 15.23

Pre Flop: (t650) Hero is BB with K 3
BTN/SB raises to t3576 all in, Hero calls t3176

Flop: (t7202) 2 3 Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t7202) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t7202) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t7202
BTN/SB shows T A (a pair of Threes)
Hero shows K 3 (three of a kind, Threes)
Hero wins t7202
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:17 PM   #8529
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Re: Poker Rigged Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Your telling me a gaming commission, that is independent from US law, would allow a site to rig a deck for business motives?
Yes, because of course US law is the only law that matters isn't it? Are you seriously saying that a gaming commission regulated by Australian law or United Kingdom law or Canadian law or European law is not to be trusted?

Guess none of those countries armed forces can be trusted to go to war with either, and none of those countries are trustworthy enough to have trade agreements with?

The level of xenophobia in this thread still manages to amaze me at times.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:21 PM   #8530
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
An interesting hand took place in an Omaha DoN today that really showed how ... rigged ...

... the boards will pair too much on Stars ...


Poker Stars $10.00+$0.40 Pot Limit Omaha Hi Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
(snip)


Also in a single NL tournament today these hands took place. ...
With the same hands.[!]

To top it off, the final hand of the same tournament had me beating the same hand again (in terms of rank).

Weird stuff like this happens all the time...
"proof."
Those happen every few minutes if you play enough tables...



Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
(snip)

Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds + t25 - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
(snip)

Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t25 - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
(snip)
I knew you were slipping toward the dark side.

.
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Old 09-15-2009, 10:31 PM   #8531
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
I knew you were slipping toward the dark side.

.

Your evil ninja editing aside ( I blame a superbot), one of the most annoying things about some of these "dark side" riggedologists is that they post some of the lamest bad beat hands (when they do post any) as proof.

At least post weird, interesting stuff that will stand out.

They post at best 2 outers and I post my stud AK high flushes 2 hands in a row losing to runner runner quads and a better AK flush or things like the above which are way cooler and much better fodder for wacky rigged beliefs.

I lost all in to 2 flopped royal flushes (granted in Omaha DoNs) in a single day 3 days ago. I cannot remember the last time I lost to a flopped royal before that.

They post how their KK lost to A7. Wow...
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:27 AM   #8532
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Re: Poker Rigged Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme View Post
Yes, because of course US law is the only law that matters isn't it? Are you seriously saying that a gaming commission regulated by Australian law or United Kingdom law or Canadian law or European law is not to be trusted?

Guess none of those countries armed forces can be trusted to go to war with either, and none of those countries are trustworthy enough to have trade agreements with?

The level of xenophobia in this thread still manages to amaze me at times.
Especially when the xenophobia is over the superiority of US regulatory agencies. Umm...yeah, those guys have been awesome lately.

That's not to say Im sure the current auditors are all on the up and up, but the logic that those guys are crooks but the US regulators will definitely be legit is just simply mindboggling to me.

I mean, does the profit motive behind rigging suddenly disappear or something? Did I just imagine the US regulator driven world economic collapse?
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Old 09-16-2009, 04:36 AM   #8533
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Re: Poker Rigged Question

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Originally Posted by LetsGambool View Post
Especially when the xenophobia is over the superiority of US regulatory agencies. Umm...yeah, those guys have been awesome lately.

That's not to say Im sure the current auditors are all on the up and up, but the logic that those guys are crooks but the US regulators will definitely be legit is just simply mindboggling to me.

I mean, does the profit motive behind rigging suddenly disappear or something? Did I just imagine the US regulator driven world economic collapse?
That's so true. My cousin has worked for the Gaming Control Board for a long time and even they get audited and have internal investigations all the time. There's really nothing that'll convince the riggies that online poker's not rigged. Even if Jesus came down in flames and yelled it to the masses.. they still wouldn't believe. Now if Charlie Sheen and Dylan Avery said it..
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:43 AM   #8534
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Re: Poker Rigged Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Dude your delusional. It's all about trust dude. Your telling me a gaming commission, that is independent from US law, would allow a site to rig a deck for business motives? Or let people access super user abilities? What's wrong with you? Havent you heard of morals and ethics? Your obviously just a bad player....
Yes, because of course US law is the only law that matters isn't it? Are you seriously saying that a gaming commission regulated by Australian law or United Kingdom law or Canadian law or European law is not to be trusted?

Guess none of those countries armed forces can be trusted to go to war with either, and none of those countries are trustworthy enough to have trade agreements with?

The level of xenophobia in this thread still manages to amaze me at times.
The idiot boy tk1133 wants poker to be regulated by US regulatory authorities.

[Advert]

US regulated poker!

From the people that brought you:

Worldcom
Enron
Arthur Anderson
Lehman Borthers
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:33 AM   #8535
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

i agree with the post that the brain is hardwired to look for patterns and make sense out of randomness.

My question is has anyone looked at the sites to determine if things happen in such excess of the expected probability that the only explaination is that the results are not random?

My brain sees a pattern, I am wondering if there is anything to the pattern.
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:43 AM   #8536
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
i agree with the post that the brain is hardwired to look for patterns and make sense out of randomness.

My question is has anyone looked at the sites to determine if things happen in such excess of the expected probability that the only explaination is that the results are not random?
yes. not only in this very thread, but also here:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...7dc4a7f?hl=en&

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...7010a4879f4c6b
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:45 AM   #8537
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
i agree with the post that the brain is hardwired to look for patterns and make sense out of randomness.

My question is has anyone looked at the sites to determine if things happen in such excess of the expected probability that the only explaination is that the results are not random?
what a revolutionary concept!
Quote:
My brain sees a pattern, I am wondering if there is anything to the pattern.
My brain sees a pattern too. A continual loop of new accounts asking if Online Poker is rigged, being told how to test it themselves and then never actually doing it.
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:49 AM   #8538
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
i agree with the post that the brain is hardwired to look for patterns and make sense out of randomness.

My question is has anyone looked at the sites to determine if things happen in such excess of the expected probability that the only explaination is that the results are not random?

My brain sees a pattern, I am wondering if there is anything to the pattern.
Many players have done their own studies on the "randomness" of RNGs and have come back with the same conclusion - it's not rigged and it is random.

By studies, I don't mean "I played 100 hands and wrote down every bad beat that happened on a piece of paper". I mean players who have played hundreds of thousands of hands and have analysed their hand histories using a program such as PokerTracker or Hold'em Manager to provide them stats.

Check out the links Josem provided above.

Last edited by NooooBingo; 09-16-2009 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Curse you Josem! Beat me to it :(
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:16 AM   #8539
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by NooooBingo View Post
Many players have done their own studies on the "randomness" of RNGs and have come back with the same conclusion - it's not rigged and it is random.
It's random?
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:15 PM   #8540
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can i trust these sites

i have recently lost a big chunk of my bankroll playing $1-$2 on pokerstrs and pkr . com . when i went over my hand histories i found i had taken some horrific bad beats especially on ps. i then searched the web and found hundreds of stories claming that pokerstars is rigged even pros saying that the odds of some of the things that were happening to them just didnt add up.what do you guys think and can you recommend poker sites i can trust so as i can keep enjoying this beautiful game,,, cheers
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:20 PM   #8541
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Re: can i trust these sites

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle12 View Post
i have recently lost a big chunk of my bankroll playing $1-$2 on pokerstrs and pkr . com . when i went over my hand histories i found i had taken some horrific bad beats especially on ps. i then searched the web and found hundreds of stories claming that pokerstars is rigged even pros saying that the odds of some of the things that were happening to them just didnt add up.what do you guys think and can you recommend poker sites i can trust so as i can keep enjoying this beautiful game,,, cheers
OP - check out the huge "Poker is rigged ..." thread on page 2.

Best advice you are going to get today is shut this down. It has no absolutely no potential to end well for you.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:30 PM   #8542
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Re: can i trust these sites

so u think stars is rigged ? lol
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:35 PM   #8543
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Re: can i trust these sites

you think online is rigged and your playing nl200?

Try moving down, and playing for pennies until you learn some common sense, like not thinking online poker is rigged, it will be +ev for you in the long run DUCY?
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:35 PM   #8544
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Re: can i trust these sites

Yes. No. I don't know.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:39 PM   #8545
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Re: can i trust these sites

Why would they rig the game for a random NL200 player so he can bad beat you?
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:40 PM   #8546
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Re: can i trust these sites

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldYoda View Post
OP - check out the huge "Poker is rigged ..." thread on page 2.

Best advice you are going to get today is shut this down. It has no absolutely no potential to end well for you.
Nah, he doesn't need to...I'll just take him there.

I haven't done one of these merges in a month or two. Wheeeee!
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:21 PM   #8547
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Harrahs and 888

Here's an interesting question
of all the sites out there why team up with 888?
Pokerstars has the biggest stable of players, followed by full tilt then perhaps party ,wouldn't it be more benificial to pick one of these instead of 888?
Here's an interesting thought, DOES IT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH 888'S RNG?!?!?
I remember reading somewhere that they have the only true rng of all the sites
discuss......
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:25 PM   #8548
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Re: Harrahs and 888

It's obviously rigged
/ disscuss
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:27 PM   #8549
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Re: Harrahs and 888

This topic is already being discussed in this forum. Here

However if you want to talk about a site being rigged then that is also being discussed here.

Or if you just want to share your view or gossip then there is a forum for that here
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:35 PM   #8550
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Re: Harrahs and 888

Well none of those threads are discussing the question I posed donkeys discuss it here.....
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