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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-11-2009, 11:53 PM   #826
ubeticall
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Re: Stay away from B2B

I have mentioned it twice now, but none seems to care: before the update, 40cent rake were 1 vip point, now its 50cent. Before the update, there was a BBJ so I was ok with the higher rake due to euro tables and no lower cap or something. but now, they removed the BBJ and have not lowered the rake...............
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:33 AM   #827
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanscott View Post
I believe it is rigged.......

"A major university recently completed a study of the on-line poker site FullTiltPoker.Net, the “free” side of Full Tilt Poker.
Totally made up by an anonymous poster on Yahoo, and one who knew nothing about odds or poker.

Quote:
For example, when seven cards are dealt from a 52-card deck, the odds of hitting a royal flush are approximately 500,000 to 1.
Wrong. It's about 32000 : 1

Quote:
With a random seven-card deal from a 52-card deck, a 2-pair hand should come up every 21 hands on average.
Wrong. Odds are 3.26 : 1

Quote:
Normal odds for a straight are 1 in every 283 seven-card hands.
Wrong. Odds are 20.6 : 1

Quote:
In the real world, we would expect to see a flush in approximately 1 out of every 500 hands.
Wrong. Odds are 32.1 : 1

Quote:
Hands with three-of-a-kind were observed in 1 out of every 27 hands, almost twice the 1 out of 47 hands one expects to see in the real world.
Wrong. Odds are 19.7 : 1

Quote:
A full house came up on average 1 in every 71 hands dealt. This far exceeds the 1 in every 694 hands you will see in the real world.
Wrong. Odds are 37.5 : 1

Quote:
Hands with four-of-a-kind occurred on Full Tilt in one 1 of every 281 hands, far more often then the 1 out of every 4,166 hands one expects from an random deal.
Wrong. Odds are 594 : 1

Not sure why I bothered, other than to make sure no one uses this trash hoax to justify their belief.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:36 AM   #828
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Not sure why I bothered, other than to make sure no one uses this trash hoax to justify their belief.
Never let facts get in the way of a good story imo.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:28 AM   #829
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Re: Stay away from B2B

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwmw View Post
You have no sense of probability.
Calculate probability before you claim something.
umm, clearly YOU dont know probability lol. youre probably the person who thinks since 7 came up in roulette 3 times in a row it cant possibly come out again
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Old 02-12-2009, 03:11 AM   #830
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Full Tilt Poker Game #10575560031: $21,000 Guarantee (79669192), Table 48 - 150/300 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:59:53 ET - 2009/02/11
Seat 1: BadgertasticBob (10,305)
Seat 2: one moment (19,080)
Seat 3: EZERock (5,095)
Seat 4: Tinos Trick (13,348)
Seat 5: (1,600)
Seat 6: woru (1,785)
Seat 7: cirbie (9,065)
Seat 8: bhorn18 (4,884)
Seat 9: 22jamie22 (11,370)
BadgertasticBob antes 25
one moment antes 25
EZERock antes 25
Tinos Trick antes 25
1 antes 25
woru antes 25
cirbie antes 25
bhorn18 antes 25
22jamie22 antes 25
cirbie posts the small blind of 150
bhorn18 posts the big blind of 300
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PeasantsBware [Kd Kh]
22jamie22 has 15 seconds left to act
22jamie22 folds
BadgertasticBob calls 300
one moment folds
EZERock folds
Tinos Trick has 15 seconds left to act
Tinos Trick folds
has 15 seconds left to act
raises to 1,575, and is all in
woru folds
cirbie folds
bhorn18 folds
BadgertasticBob has 15 seconds left to act
BadgertasticBob has requested TIME
BadgertasticBob calls 1,275
shows [Kd Kh]
BadgertasticBob shows [Jh Kc]
*** FLOP *** [Td Qs 3c]
*** TURN *** [Td Qs 3c] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [Td Qs 3c Jc] [Js]
shows two pair, Kings and Jacks
BadgertasticBob shows three of a kind, Jacks
BadgertasticBob wins the pot (3,825) with three of a kind, Jacks
stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,825 | Rake 0
Board: [Td Qs 3c Jc Js]
Seat 1: BadgertasticBob showed [Jh Kc] and won (3,825) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 2: one moment folded before the Flop
Seat 3: EZERock folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Tinos Trick folded before the Flop
Seat 5: showed [Kd Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 6: woru (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: cirbie (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: bhorn18 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: 22jamie22 folded before the Flop

i'll load this thread up for hours on this...
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:47 AM   #831
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Re: Stay away from B2B

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubeticall View Post
I have mentioned it twice now, but none seems to care: before the update, 40cent rake were 1 vip point, now its 50cent. Before the update, there was a BBJ so I was ok with the higher rake due to euro tables and no lower cap or something. but now, they removed the BBJ and have not lowered the rake...............
I care

Btw, the BBJ was free, no extra rake was taken for it, so they have
taken away €25k(?) per month from the players + lowered the effective'
rakeback/bonuses...die...
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:17 AM   #832
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Re: Stay away from B2B

well, for me, the rake included some kind of bbj rake
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:42 AM   #833
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Is that hand supposed to mean something? So KK lost to KJ, happens once every 10 times they match up. Not even very long odds, which makes you an idiot for even using it as an example of anything. Hands do lose on the river in poker in case you thought otherwise, but since you were all-in preflop that isn't even relative here, he had five cards coming when the money went in.

Last edited by spadebidder; 02-12-2009 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:08 AM   #834
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmt030283 View Post
Full Tilt Poker Game #10575560031: $21,000 Guarantee (79669192), Table 48 - 150/300 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:59:53 ET - 2009/02/11
Seat 1: BadgertasticBob (10,305)
Seat 2: one moment (19,080)
Seat 3: EZERock (5,095)
Seat 4: Tinos Trick (13,348)
Seat 5: (1,600)
Seat 6: woru (1,785)
Seat 7: cirbie (9,065)
Seat 8: bhorn18 (4,884)
Seat 9: 22jamie22 (11,370)
BadgertasticBob antes 25
one moment antes 25
EZERock antes 25
Tinos Trick antes 25
1 antes 25
woru antes 25
cirbie antes 25
bhorn18 antes 25
22jamie22 antes 25
cirbie posts the small blind of 150
bhorn18 posts the big blind of 300
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PeasantsBware [Kd Kh]
22jamie22 has 15 seconds left to act
22jamie22 folds
BadgertasticBob calls 300
one moment folds
EZERock folds
Tinos Trick has 15 seconds left to act
Tinos Trick folds
has 15 seconds left to act
raises to 1,575, and is all in
woru folds
cirbie folds
bhorn18 folds
BadgertasticBob has 15 seconds left to act
BadgertasticBob has requested TIME
BadgertasticBob calls 1,275
shows [Kd Kh]
BadgertasticBob shows [Jh Kc]
*** FLOP *** [Td Qs 3c]
*** TURN *** [Td Qs 3c] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [Td Qs 3c Jc] [Js]
shows two pair, Kings and Jacks
BadgertasticBob shows three of a kind, Jacks
BadgertasticBob wins the pot (3,825) with three of a kind, Jacks
stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,825 | Rake 0
Board: [Td Qs 3c Jc Js]
Seat 1: BadgertasticBob showed [Jh Kc] and won (3,825) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 2: one moment folded before the Flop
Seat 3: EZERock folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Tinos Trick folded before the Flop
Seat 5: showed [Kd Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 6: woru (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: cirbie (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: bhorn18 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: 22jamie22 folded before the Flop

i'll load this thread up for hours on this...
Didn't you know?

They always rig the river against players with <null> names.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:13 AM   #835
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by
_h;792529
`


One who was a member here contacted me in private
with a warning

There are venemuous trolls here who are urged to interrupt
any threads they see referring to the great hoax.

The agenda is to bait the reasoning posters to stoop to
the level of the troll who uses nasty words and dirty tricks
in hopes of getting angry repsonses and driving the
thread off the mainpage.

Mostly these trolls do not make sense and when they
see some replies are logical and reasoned they use
trickery to present the poster they HATE as a dupe and fool.
and they HATE a lot of people !

As many who read here know I am neither a dupe nor a fool.
you can see to what lengths one troll here has gone to
interrupt an informative thread on the hoax. The thread
has much to offer but the troll wont let it alone.

it has effectively killed that thread. as it is urged to do.


This is how the TYRANNY works
reading some of the posts by these trolls its easy
to see the INSANITY.

One attacks all posts about the hoax and by so
doing shows its OBSESSION to rid the main pages
of any threads that inform about the view of the
hoax it wont tolerate.

INSANITY rules in many quarters these days.

It IS turning around.

be of good cheer and bypass the trolls.

Keep focused and see where trolls scream ugly
accusations and nasty labels, chauvinist epithets
and twisted recounts of posts.

Stay in your own core and these types will show
their insanity every time

The SANE will survive.

We all lose a thread, but it has lost its SOUL.

Personally I am at a loss to understand why Mods
allow the insults and nasty words to stand.


so be it.


A NEW WIND is BLOWING ACROSS THE LAND
Whadya know its Markusgc and qpw.

Post a rigged thread and they ll be there, like flies to a ****.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:22 AM   #836
SooperFish24
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Is that hand supposed to mean something? So KK lost to KJ, happens once every 10 times they match up. Not even very long odds, which makes you an idiot for even using it as an example of anything. Hands do lose on the river in poker in case you thought otherwise, but since you were all-in preflop that isn't even relative here, he had five cards coming when the money went in.
Thats a bit one sided spacy.

When the J hits on the turn the KJ has 4.5% chance of a winning and 18% for the split.

KJ also beats KK more like 1 in 11 times just to correct you again my friend.

On the flop the KJ has 30% chance to win.

This is another example of a two outer given to a player making a mistake.

I wouldnt call the OP an idiot for using this example.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:28 AM   #837
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Thats a bit one sided spacy.

When the J hits on the turn the KJ has 4.5% chance of a winning and 18% for the split.

KJ also beats KK more like 1 in 11 times just to correct you again my friend.

On the flop the KJ has 30% chance to win.

This is another example of a two outer given to a player making a mistake.

I wouldnt call the OP an idiot for using this example.
Possibly because your understanding is as lacking as his?

What it with the ****** tendency?

Are they never going to understand that you simply cannot make any valid point by quoting a single hand history? Or ten? Or a hundred?

Every time someone does that (or defends someone who does it) it indicates that they are completely clueless about the workings of probability.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:29 AM   #838
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Whadya know its Markusgc and qpw.

Post a rigged thread and they ll be there, like flies to a ****.
Just because we like pulling the tails of rigtards.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:36 AM   #839
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Re: Stay away from B2B

I once shared in the BBJ at a B2B table - straight flush over straight flush if you can believe it! Think my share was e450 or so.

So with all the NoiQ grinders gone to Entraction does that mean iPoker should be OK for me once Will Hill (where I play mostly) switch at month end?

And how can anyone make anything playing 6/3 or 10/6, rake race or not? You can't even hope to outrun the blinds playing that tight. You'd be much better shorstacking instead.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:41 AM   #840
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
When the J hits on the turn the KJ has 4.5% chance of a winning and 18% for the split.
It was all-in preflop, meaning five cards were dealt at once, so there is no turn probability. That is only relevant when the street is played, which it wasn't. Villain was 9.47% to win or tie the hand when the money went in, and it went his way this time. It would have been 10.3% except for the dominated heart canceling some flush possibilities.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:43 AM   #841
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Thats a bit one sided spacy.

When the J hits on the turn the KJ has 4.5% chance of a winning and 18% for the split.

KJ also beats KK more like 1 in 11 times just to correct you again my friend.

On the flop the KJ has 30% chance to win.

This is another example of a two outer given to a player making a mistake.

I wouldnt call the OP an idiot for using this example.

The aces and 9s are unhappy you are ignoring them by saying it was a 2 outer at any point post flop as they want to count as well. Granted those outs became tie outs by the turn but the KJ guy still had a 23% chance to not lose by the turn.

The OP is an idiot for assuming a single selected hand matters as "proof." The BBV section is filled with beats like that which are a part of the game (and if they were not that would be proof a game is rigged).

Maybe this is just another example of a player getting lucky instead of a massive conspiracy to produce fake luck. Sure that reality is hardly as sexy, but reality and common sense tends to be mundane, which is why wacky conspiracies make for fun movie plots (and rigged beliefs).

All the best.
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:26 AM   #842
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Re: Stay away from B2B

Ähm.... is it standard to see 1-outer every 15 hands ?
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:25 AM   #843
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Whadya know its Markusgc and qpw.

Post a rigged thread and they ll be there, like flies to a ****.
I seem to see you in all of them too, but on the rigged side.

Speaking for myself, and probably representative of others, here's why I like to watch the rigged threads:

1. Often they are amusing and entertaining.
2. The theories are are usually easy to shoot down.
3. I play on sites that I consider to be fair and honest, and I'm smart enough to weigh the evidence and make an informed choice. When people say my sites are rigged they are questioning my intelligence. I'm only a break-even player online so far and I'm confident that is reflective of my skill level and not of unfairness.
4. Maybe I can help some rigtards see the folly of their ideas so they can enjoy the game without suspicion.
5. I like to participate and to write, and I post in many other topics too.
6. If there is ever any real evidence I'd like to know it and to help evaluate it. I don't want to play on rigged sites either.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:04 PM   #844
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
6. If there is ever any real evidence I'd like to know it and to help evaluate it. I don't want to play on rigged sites either.

The irony of all of this is that the rigtards tend to hinder this process with their obviously flawed theories. The super users would never be caught if those behind the research were distracted by gut feel and selective memory.

Even this KJ vs KK hand provides a perfect example. It is presented as proof something is up, but that is working it backwards by taking a strange hand (which will happen at times) and assuming something, instead of trying to determine why and how a site would be rigged.

Let's go on the premise that Full Tilt is rigged in SOME way, but we are not certain which way. This hand would mean they rig it as follows:

1) They pick a hand that will be noticed ie a bad beat vs a big pair all in preflop

2) They add spice to it by making it go J turn to create the dramatic J river

3) They do this in a tournament with no rake per hand, but lets assume it is to punish the OP who is "good" (which who really knows)


This is the way a site will rig it? This would be like planning a break-in but deciding a fireworks show on the front lawn would be a good idea beforehand.

If indeed the site is rigged, there is zero chance they would do it on hands that people will really notice, like this KJ vs KK one. Those would be the hands they absolutely never mess with because

1) People will pay attention to them

2) People will study them and form beliefs about them more then normal hands

These are the perfect hands to just let happen without any tweaks because they will distract rigtards who will never find anything of substance because those hands are genuine.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:53 PM   #845
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalMag View Post
I have found, through extensive research, that if you flop a flush draw and one person before you bets, if you click call exactly 3.4 seconds later you will hit your flush on the turn.
someone please try this and let me know if it works!!!
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:18 PM   #846
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Well i gotta say personally i think this XXXX is rigged threads are idiotic...

BUT Full Tilt Poker is the room where i have gotten more bad beats of any. I did a sample of like 12k hands and it was horrible...

God knows maybe it was psicological that i tought i was going to lose there more than on any other site.
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:08 PM   #847
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Yes /thread
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:11 PM   #848
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

[thread]

No.

[/thread]
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:53 PM   #849
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Is that hand supposed to mean something? So KK lost to KJ, happens once every 10 times they match up. Not even very long odds, which makes you an idiot for even using it as an example of anything. Hands do lose on the river in poker in case you thought otherwise, but since you were all-in preflop that isn't even relative here, he had five cards coming when the money went in.
Negative. Like I said I lost a 500 dollar bank roll in less then 3 days. (I started with a ten cent rebuy mind you! 0.23 cent to 500 dollars) I could load this whole thread up with the hand histories. As mentioned by people here before it was the timing of all of them. At break, right near the bubble. I can show about 25 more hands if anybody would like. Perhaps the str8 flush that beat my ace hi flush? Or the small stack 6 2 moving all in on my bb vs k k and floping a set, only to have runner cards come giving him a straight?
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Old 02-12-2009, 11:23 PM   #850
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmt030283 View Post
I can show about 25 more hands if anybody would like.
Your sliver of data isn't going to convince many that it's rigged, just as our huge pies of proof won't convince you.

But here's how the world works: if you are convinced that someone is doing something dishonest, you don't get to tell everyone they are unless you can provide evidence. when you do such a thing without it, you are not telling the truth, and there are repercussions for that.

Baseless accusations fall under Defamation, Nuisance, Conspiracy and other unsavory acts. Also, it causes "Boy Who Cries Wolf" situations, which will hinder investigation in cases with merit.

How would you feel if people around your town kept saying your girl is a slut? Would you be pleased? Or would you ask for proof? (That's big business for private eyes, spying on cheating spouses and taking pictures.) But if some random dude said he heard the whole bar banged your chick on the pool table the other night, you'd probably punch him, right? That would be a consequence of telling lies.

What if you saw the video on his phone of it though, that would change things, huh?

Many people here have hundreds of thousands of hands as proof that there isn't anything wrong with Full Tilt, or any other site. Until you have proof to the contrary, I'm gonna go with what I've experienced over a fairly significant sample size. Please consider that instead of your fairly limited experiences up to this point.

When you have a huge database, go ahead and analyze it. If you find something unusual, present it. I promise many will look at it fairly and if something's there, folks will get behind you.
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