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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9859. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-09-2009, 12:06 PM   #8326
notnac
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

Okay, fair enough, I'm willing to accept it's just me. But like I said, I don't play a lot. And yet it happens a lot.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:07 PM   #8327
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

And I don't always lose when it happens. I just want to make sure I'm playing somewhere fair.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:17 PM   #8328
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by notnac View Post
... I really try not to be a conspiracy theorist, but the chances of this happening so much doesn't feel right to me...
try harder
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:20 PM   #8329
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

Ok.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:26 PM   #8330
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by notnac View Post
But like I said, I don't play a lot. And yet it happens a lot.
how do u know then?
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:26 PM   #8331
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Thumbs down Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

rigged
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:30 PM   #8332
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

I meant it's been happening a lot when I play. And it shouldn't be happening so much in the little time that I do play. But could just be variance like was mentioned.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:31 PM   #8333
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

And it's not just my hands, it's other people's hands at the table. No one else is saying it's happening to them yet, so yeah I'll accept it's just me for the time being.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:33 PM   #8334
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

When I play at casinos the same stuff happens there that it does on my FTP screen. I think you just got a crazy string of 4 of a kinds in a row. Cant remember the last time i saw 4 of a kind
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:36 PM   #8335
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

Ok, cool. Thanks for your reply coldsilence. I can live with that.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:57 PM   #8336
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

I have noticed the same thing. The flop/turn/river just don't seem "right" on FullTilt, but I can't put my finger on it.

I've played live for 15 years and I've seen pretty much every bad beat imaginable, but this is different.

I've also experienced some bad beats on Poker Stars but they seem more "realistic" (i.e. the type of things you would see live.)

My personal database for both sites is only about 100,000 hands each. Not enough to prove anything.

Also, I cannot understand why Full Tilt would rig the micro stake cash games I play. It doesn't make sense. More likely, there is a flaw in their RNG program than outright fraud IMO.

You realize that by posting here we have condemned ourselves to being called rigtards and being measured for our tinfoil hats. .

These types of allegations don't seem to get much love here on 2+2. This is also understandable, since most players are losers who are quick to blame the software, the dealer, the cards, the moon phase, etc.

However, if anyone does have a link to a statistically significant database analysis of Full Tilt deals one way or the other I would be interested in seeing it.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:01 PM   #8337
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

god, should have to take an iq test before being able to start a thread.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:05 PM   #8338
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by StripSqueeze View Post
I have noticed the same thing. The flop/turn/river just don't seem "right" on FullTilt, but I can't put my finger on it.

I've played live for 15 years and I've seen pretty much every bad beat imaginable, but this is different.

I've also experienced some bad beats on Poker Stars but they seem more "realistic" (i.e. the type of things you would see live.)

My personal database for both sites is only about 100,000 hands each. Not enough to prove anything.

Also, I cannot understand why Full Tilt would rig the micro stake cash games I play. It doesn't make sense. More likely, there is a flaw in their RNG program than outright fraud IMO.

You realize that by posting here we have condemned ourselves to being called rigtards and being measured for our tinfoil hats. .

These types of allegations don't seem to get much love here on 2+2. This is also understandable, since most players are losers who are quick to blame the software, the dealer, the cards, the moon phase, etc.

However, if anyone does have a link to a statistically significant database analysis of Full Tilt deals one way or the other I would be interested in seeing it.
I don't have the link handy but there are several posted in the official rigtard thread in this forum. IIRC Josem posted them. Its a huge analysis of more than 1 million hands I think. Anyway basically all stats were within statistical variance.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:09 PM   #8339
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

Its called variance

/thread
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:12 PM   #8340
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by notnac View Post
Okay, fair enough, I'm willing to accept it's just me. But like I said, I don't play a lot. And yet it happens a lot.
Based on your expert opinion, what is the statistical expectation for these scenarios to happen?

Oh, you don't know? Guess you can't say it happens too often then.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:24 PM   #8341
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

No one's ever going to get a large enough statistical analysis to actually see how much this happens, because you're not going to always see everyone's hole cards when this happens. I don't know the specific math, but from what I understand, you'll see big pairs against each other from somewhere on a table, somewhere between every 300 to every 600 hands. Maybe one of those players out here with a giant FT and/or Stars database could check their db to see how often someone has had AA vs KK at their games.

While they are at it, they could also check to see what the average hand rank is that wins on Stars vs FT.

Anyway, even if you show up with a 1M hand database, you're still going to only have information primarily about what you are dealt, which isn't enough to actually prove anything.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:31 PM   #8342
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I must admit that I was convinced that online poker is rigged.But i found a open source poker game that can be played online against human players or offline against bots.After i played a few thousands hands I and I saw a lot of AA vs KK, KK vs QQ,AA vs KK vs QQ,etc.,and a lot of bad beats I must admit that I am not so sure anymore that online poker is rigged.
This is the game http://www.pokerth.net/
Try it and make an opinion.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:37 PM   #8343
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re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by george999 View Post
I must admit that I was convinced that online poker is rigged.But i found a open source poker game that can be played online against human players or offline against bots.After i played a few thousands hands I and I saw a lot of AA vs KK, KK vs QQ,AA vs KK vs QQ,etc.,and a lot of bad beats I must admit that I am not so sure anymore that online poker is rigged.
This is the game http://www.pokerth.net/
Try it and make an opinion.
Just play a few hours live and you'll see plenty of the same. That's poker. A random deal will throw all kinds of bad beats at you.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:58 PM   #8344
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

Yeah, i notice the same thing. Specially in late stages of an MTT where i'm AIPF with a PP vs lower PP and they always flop a set on me or backdoor a flush or something crazy like that. Also, my suckouts when i get it in bad and hit the flop never hold to the river.

There is definately something fishy and i think we should investigate this further.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:04 PM   #8345
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by AriciU View Post
Yeah, i notice the same thing. Specially in late stages of an MTT where i'm AIPF with a PP vs lower PP and they always flop a set on me or backdoor a flush or something crazy like that. Also, my suckouts when i get it in bad and hit the flop never hold to the river.

There is definately something fishy and i think we should investigate this further.
So you are saying.. you get it in bad.. and lose? We've got something here.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:24 PM   #8346
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

online poker is rigged. everyone knows. thats just how it is. std day iirc
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:30 PM   #8347
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

It would be nice if the sites would submit their software to audits by a reputable company.

It would be a great marketing tool if one of the major companies could state on their website that:

Our software is audited monthly by (internationally known software company) and we are subject to random inspections by this company.

Seems to me that this would be a cheap way to address player's concerns. They could forward all inquiries to the auditing company who verified the fairness of the software.

It would be a competitive advantage in the marketplace and would possibly attract new players who would otherwise be afraid to play online poker.

Poker Stars would be a more likely candidate to do something like this. However, if they did I think FullTilt would be forced to follow suit.

Full and regular audits with random inspections sure couldn't hurt players and might put and end to threads like this once and for all.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:45 PM   #8348
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

Here we go again.

This is kind of thing that happens when stupid people are allowed to have money and vote.
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:07 PM   #8349
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by StripSqueeze View Post
It would be nice if the sites would submit their software to audits by a reputable company.

This has been done. If you care so much do some basic research.
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:08 PM   #8350
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Re: Monsters vs. Monsters on Full Tilt

OMG!!!!1 Internet poker is rigged!!!!1
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