Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-02-2009, 03:49 PM   #8076
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River View Post
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that this is a serious thread.

Check the Pitbull Poker or Eurolinx threads if you don't understand the difference between real problems and imaginary ones or how these forums react to them.
If it exists, it is a serious thread. You are the one making the decision to not allow it to be serious in your little corner of the universe. People cheat people, so it is possible, if it is possible, you should take it seriously.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 03:49 PM   #8077
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
As it pertains to the possibility of rigging, you would not know if the tournaments were being sped up artificially unless you had proof. You could only hypothesise. No one has proven this up to this point in time.
Did you know there is a tiny teapot orbiting in space?

You'll also find more helpful information here to aid your quest.

.

Last edited by spadebidder; 09-02-2009 at 03:58 PM.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 04:04 PM   #8078
LUCKPANTS
newbie
 
LUCKPANTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: LV
Posts: 26
Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
I think this is a reflection on the people you know, not a reflection on online poker operators.

But there are consequences for the legitimate sites.

For example, I work for an online poker operator. If I played a role in fiddling the RNG, then I expect that I would go to jail.
And who has access to the software to audit it? Who do we trust to audit it? And who exactly would put you in jail for adjusting your own software at your own company? There are a lot of company's here in the us that lie, cheat, and basically steal, and have been doing it for years, and still are doing it. I'm not sure about rigged or not, just questions i don't know the answer to.
LUCKPANTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 04:06 PM   #8079
LUCKPANTS
newbie
 
LUCKPANTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: LV
Posts: 26
Thumbs up re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
If it exists, it is a serious thread. You are the one making the decision to not allow it to be serious in your little corner of the universe. People cheat people, so it is possible, if it is possible, you should take it seriously.
yes this is right on
LUCKPANTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 04:09 PM   #8080
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Did you know there is a tiny teapot orbiting in space?

You'll also find more helpful information here to aid your quest.

.
I have been clear from the start that in my personal experience, I am either running really bad (likely), or something is not right with the sites programming. As I am going through my stats, I am confirming this. If I continue to see the same results, I will let you guys know. At this point in time, I cant prove online poker is rigged in anyway, but I can prove that I am one unlucky slob. I am curious to see if my results continue to deviate.
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 04:13 PM   #8081
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
Did you know there is a tiny teapot orbiting in space?

You'll also find more helpful information here to aid your quest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I have been clear from the start that in my personal experience, I am either running really bad (likely), or something is not right with the sites programming. As I am going through my stats, I am confirming this. If I continue to see the same results, I will let you guys know. At this point in time, I cant prove online poker is rigged in anyway, but I can prove that I am one unlucky slob. I am curious to see if my results continue to deviate.
My comment was simply about the logic used in your prior statement, where you implied that someone has to "prove" that something is not rigged even in the absence of evidence that it is. Likewise, you need to prove that tiny teapot isn't there. Or that you no longer beat your wife (just making a point).

Regards

Last edited by spadebidder; 09-02-2009 at 04:21 PM.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 04:50 PM   #8082
DonkoTheClown
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 741
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
My comment was simply about the logic used in your prior statement, where you implied that someone has to "prove" that something is not rigged even in the absence of evidence that it is. Likewise, you need to prove that tiny teapot isn't there. Or that you no longer beat your wife (just making a point).

Regards
LOL!
Point taken.

Although, I would rather that be a coffee pot, then I would want to believe that it is orbiting...mmm coffee....
DonkoTheClown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 06:09 PM   #8083
cainer
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 72
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I just joined this thread and i dont feel like reading everything that has been said but, if what i am about to say has already been said, then sorry for repeating it again.

As for my opinion on online poker being rigged, i voted yes for a couple of reasons. First, without a doubt, pitbull poker is rigged from the info gathered on this most recent thread. AP was found to be rigged also.

Who knows how many other sites are also out there with crooked employees, using super user accounts. My guess is there is a few and they just havent been caught yet.

And this is my own personal opinion and some will think i am whacko for thinking this but, i personally believe a lot of these random hand genorators are rigged. Especially on Cake poker. They say the hands and cards are random but, i personally feel they have been played with(altered) in a way to create more action. Just way to many 8-1 12-1 40-1 cards are dleivered on the rivers and they aint happenning at the odds i just stated.

Just my 2 cents worth
cainer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 06:33 PM   #8084
WeeFatShug
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 160
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

All the talk seems to be about RNG`s and whether they are fair or not when in fact it would appear almost every other crooked scheme and scam is perpetrated by online operators. The RNG would be the least of my worries.

Eurolinx,Strykke,Pitbull,Absolute,Ultimate bet,Pokes,PokerPoka,Battlefield,Microgaming in general............ The list could go on.

I`ll never trust online poker sites but mainly because of the people and organizations that own & run them. Hardly a week goes by without another scandal.

Internet games are good fun but thats about all imo.
WeeFatShug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 09:24 PM   #8085
Arouet
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Arouet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,433
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I have been clear from the start that in my personal experience, I am either running really bad (likely), or something is not right with the sites programming. As I am going through my stats, I am confirming this. If I continue to see the same results, I will let you guys know. At this point in time, I cant prove online poker is rigged in anyway, but I can prove that I am one unlucky slob. I am curious to see if my results continue to deviate.
Ok, its great that you're going through your stats, this is the way to start figuring out whether there is a problem. What are you finding? What kind of deviation are you seeing? How big is your sample size? If you post your findings in a serious manner I think you'll get some serious replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cainer View Post
I just joined this thread and i dont feel like reading everything that has been said but, if what i am about to say has already been said, then sorry for repeating it again.

As for my opinion on online poker being rigged, i voted yes for a couple of reasons. First, without a doubt, pitbull poker is rigged from the info gathered on this most recent thread. AP was found to be rigged also.
I've followed/participated in the pitbull thread as well. So far there has been very little discussion about whether pitbull is rigged: the focus is on cheating. When we talk about riggedness we're referring to the RNG, not to cheating writ large. Same goes for AP

Quote:
Originally Posted by cainer View Post
Just way to many 8-1 12-1 40-1 cards are dleivered on the rivers and they aint happenning at the odds i just stated.

Just my 2 cents worth

You are not the first to make this claim. However, why not share your stats, share your analysis? Too many posters make vague accusations about "too many" this and "too few that" but precious few have offered any evidence whatsoever of it.
Arouet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 09:31 PM   #8086
tk1133
veteran
 
tk1133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Making friends one post @ a time
Posts: 2,221
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

They don't post evidence b/c they are ridiculed and belittled by certain shills...You'd be surprised how many people read this thread everyday but don't post....
tk1133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 09:34 PM   #8087
Arouet
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Arouet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,433
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
They don't post evidence b/c they are ridiculed and belittled by certain shills...You'd be surprised how many people read this thread everyday but don't post....
I don't think anyone who has posted evidence in a serious way has been ridiculed. The people who are ridiculed are the ones who post isolated or cherrypicked hands while ignoring vast amounts of data that don't go with their rigged theories.
Arouet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 10:41 PM   #8088
otatop
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: unstuckpolitics.com
Posts: 12,727
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
As it pertains to the possibility of rigging, you would not know if the tournaments were being sped up artificially unless you had proof. You could only hypothesise. No one has proven this up to this point in time.
This is actually pretty easily provable, unless you think every site uses the exact same rigging.
otatop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 11:48 PM   #8089
pooflinger
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: run bad
Posts: 850
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

if i had a gun to my head and had to make a choice rigged or not rigged i would insta say rigged
pooflinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 11:49 PM   #8090
Josem
human chemical weapon
 
Josem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 17,957
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCKPANTS View Post
And who has access to the software to audit it? Who do we trust to audit it? And who exactly would put you in jail for adjusting your own software at your own company? There are a lot of company's here in the us that lie, cheat, and basically steal, and have been doing it for years, and still are doing it. I'm not sure about rigged or not, just questions i don't know the answer to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
Why do you just make stuff up?

Fortunately, the strict legislation that regulates PokerStars has thought of this eventuality. You can read it at http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/gambling/...ionact2001.pdf under Section 16, where it gives the regulator rights to enter the PokerStars premises at any time.
Obv. it isn't reasonable to expect anyone to read the whole thread, but reading the last page would probably help answer some of your questions.
Josem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 11:53 PM   #8091
cainer
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 72
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Ok



You are not the first to make this claim. However, why not share your stats, share your analysis? Too many posters make vague accusations about "too many" this and "too few that" but precious few have offered any evidence whatsoever of it.
For me to prove my theory of 12-1 shots hitting at like 8-1 odds is a bit hard to do. Or 40-1 shots hitting at 20-1 odds. Id have to dig up 100.000,s of hands to prove this and i am not willing to do that lol

Its just my opinion and we can just leave it at that. Ive played poker for a long time and at many sites and ive never seen longshots winning as much as i do as i see on Cake poker, but, they are a bit loser there, so, maybe thats it
cainer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 12:16 AM   #8092
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,140
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by cainer View Post
For me to prove my theory of 12-1 shots hitting at like 8-1 odds is a bit hard to do. Or 40-1 shots hitting at 20-1 odds. Id have to dig up 100.000,s of hands to prove this and i am not willing to do that lol
Not even for the greater good? To save people TONS of money from playing there?
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 12:18 AM   #8093
otatop
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: unstuckpolitics.com
Posts: 12,727
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by cainer View Post
For me to prove my theory of 12-1 shots hitting at like 8-1 odds is a bit hard to do. Or 40-1 shots hitting at 20-1 odds. Id have to dig up 100.000,s of hands to prove this and i am not willing to do that lol
People have already collected billions of hands to do this type of research with. So far, they've found nothing. Odd.
Quote:
Its just my opinion and we can just leave it at that.
Math isn't really an opinion based thing. I mean, if I say that in my opinion, 2+2=6, no one can argue with my opinion, but most would probably point out why I was wrong.
Quote:
Ive played poker for a long time and at many sites and ive never seen longshots winning as much as i do as i see on Cake poker
How do you keep track of long shots winning too much?
otatop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 01:14 AM   #8094
dbcooper279
old hand
 
dbcooper279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Under 23ft of water
Posts: 1,678
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by cainer View Post
For me to prove my theory of 12-1 shots hitting at like 8-1 odds is a bit hard to do. Or 40-1 shots hitting at 20-1 odds. Id have to dig up 100.000,s of hands to prove this and i am not willing to do that lol

Its just my opinion and we can just leave it at that. Ive played poker for a long time and at many sites and ive never seen longshots winning as much as i do as i see on Cake poker, but, they are a bit loser there, so, maybe thats it
Email support and request HHs. Until then, your notions are just that.
dbcooper279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 01:44 AM   #8095
burden2
banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 969
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

I was butchered and coolered so bad and so consistently at stars that I came into this thread and argued a bit about the possibility of stars somehow helping out the bad players to an extent so as to bla bla bla whatever....

it was fun to debate some of the guys in here. But it got old. I mean the question of riggedness is not, as of now, answerable. Some people will swear it's fair, some will swear it's rigged and some people like me will try to maintain a healthy skepticism.

but damn if I don't feel a new conspiracy tingling my brain. I am starting to think that there actually are shills for the sites ITT. I mean they guys are like pit bulls. They seem to never get tired of shooting down (in their own minds quite often but sometimes legitimately) the same arguments again and again and over and over again. They are really like soldiers. I have never heard of people working tirelessly for no compensation. Maybe they are not paid specifically to come into this forum and battle the "rigtards" but maybe work for the sites and hate the idea that the company they own stock in would be questioned?

Seriously what is it with these guys? Do they enjoy sparring with those they see an inferior debaters? What is the motivation I gots to know how you never get sick of this thread and the same arguments over and over again.
burden2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 02:21 AM   #8096
otatop
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: unstuckpolitics.com
Posts: 12,727
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by burden2 View Post
but damn if I don't feel a new conspiracy tingling my brain. I am starting to think that there actually are shills for the sites ITT.
Not a new conspiracy theory.
Quote:
I mean they guys are like pit bulls. They seem to never get tired of shooting down (in their own minds quite often but sometimes legitimately) the same arguments again and again and over and over again.
Because the arguments are almost never new, so it's easy to just repeat what their flaws are.
Quote:
I have never heard of people working tirelessly for no compensation.
Almost every forum on the internet has moderators, and most of them are unpaid. 2+2 has dozens of them.
Quote:
Maybe they are not paid specifically to come into this forum and battle the "rigtards" but maybe work for the sites and hate the idea that the company they own stock in would be questioned?
Every time this has been brought up against a specific person, they've denied any contact or involvement with the site. But of course they can't be trusted.
Quote:
Seriously what is it with these guys? Do they enjoy sparring with those they see an inferior debaters? What is the motivation I gots to know how you never get sick of this thread and the same arguments over and over again.
The main thing, for me anyway, is that if statements are just left by themselves, that gives them credibility in some people's views.
otatop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 02:29 AM   #8097
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by cainer View Post
For me to prove my theory of 12-1 shots hitting at like 8-1 odds is a bit hard to do. Or 40-1 shots hitting at 20-1 odds. Id have to dig up 100.000,s of hands to prove this and i am not willing to do that lol
I agree with your "lol" at the end.
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 02:32 AM   #8098
NFuego20
Pooh-Bah
 
NFuego20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 4,295
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

so how many rigtards would be screaming rigged if this happened to them on stars...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WHUcmPtw2A
NFuego20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 02:43 AM   #8099
dbcooper279
old hand
 
dbcooper279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Under 23ft of water
Posts: 1,678
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
so how many rigtards would be screaming rigged if this happened to them on stars...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WHUcmPtw2A
I think it would go something like this:

Rigtard: "Obv stars gave us both huge hands. And then the action flop leaving us both with a boat is proof that they rig it to increase the rake"

Me: Yeah, action flops in tournaments to increase the rake.......lololol

Rigtard: "Well, they also deal action flops to bust players faster, so they will play more tournaments"

Me: Yeah, because players can only play one tournament at a time......

Rigtard: "Oh, you're just a shill for Stars, trying to sweep how rigged your RNG is under the carpet so people won't find out about it and keep on playing there, even though it's so obvious how rigged it is."

Me: Actually, I don't even play on stars.

NFuego20:
dbcooper279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 02:53 AM   #8100
burden2
banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 969
re: The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
so how many rigtards would be screaming rigged if this happened to them on stars...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WHUcmPtw2A
If I was in the old's man position in that hand on stars I would give myself about a 50% chance of dodging a river 6. I have been conditioned to the point that I would be worried, not fist pumping. True story. I've lost my last 2 AA and last 3 KK on FT aipf hu. Do I compain about FT? No. I take my variance like a man. But when it comes to stars, you are just asking me to suspend my reason completely to believe that I could randomly be coolered and beat that way.
burden2 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive