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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:34 AM   #776
batair
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

They have $1 rebuy satellites to the Sunday millions? cool im going to be rich.

Last edited by batair; 02-08-2009 at 01:38 AM. Reason: how come new posters never use paragraphs it must be some kind of syndrome
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:18 AM   #777
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
the rebuy period last 15 minutes[...]compare each tables hands for the first 15 minutes, lets assume each table is dealt around 20 or 30 hands to each player in this time
20-30 hands in 15 minutes in a MTT? I could be wrong, since I've never played the $1 rebuy Sunday Millions satellite, but that seems waaaaaay too high.
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my proposal is that anyone of these tables in that first 15 minute time frame will produce a higher number of premium hands than any of the first 20 or 30 hands dealt at the final table of any sunday millions game.
Okie doke.
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and compare with any or all the final tables of the sunday millions first 20 or 30 hands.
So now you want to compare 30 hands against 450,000 to see if there's anything wrong with the stats?
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There will not be a single table that doesnt produce far more premium starting hands in these satelites, than the final table of the sunday millions. This will prove pokerstars are manipulating the RNG.
And now sample size has just gone completely out the window. Now you're just saying "If you compare any of the starting tables in a satellite to the final table of the Sunday Millions, you'll see more premium hands".
Quote:
You may ask why would they do this? Simple, if 300 people buy into a rebuy satelite thats $300, thats only one buy in to the sunday millions with a fee of $15 for every $215 buy in, so the more action the satelites generate the more rebuys, at the end of the rebuy period ther will be more like $1500 thats 6 or 7 tickets into the sunday millions with 6 or 7 buy in fees of $15 totalling $100, so for every $1 turbo satelite to the sunday millions, pokerstars has found a way to generate a larger cash intake, by creating more action.
The $1 hyper turbos aren't raked at all, so it seems like a lot of work for them to go through to maybe make $100, when they could easily have a few $5+.50s or something where they got rake from the satellite and from the tourney.
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Pokerstars manipulates the RNG and the seed, depending on the game, all cleverly designed to generate more income in different ways, but all that is needed is to prove one, the satalites comparison with sunday millions will do this. Do you really think an online gaming site would leave their profit margins to chance, everything they do is designed to make money. Thats why they make so much. Any site which claims to be fair by stating that there RNG is completley random when in fact there is proof it is not, and it is defrauding people every day out of thousands of pounds, millions every year, needs to be fully investigated, the evidence is there, if you analyse and compare the correct games, and dont allow them to give you a random sample of hands for analysis.
What do you think of Cigital's audit of PokerStars hands for the entire month of December 2008?
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:55 AM   #778
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

yes you are wrong 20 or 30 is not too high its a turbo rebuy. If you havnt played it you cant comment can you bright spark, if your going to criticise at least have half a clue what your talking about.
As far as the sample size goes, i said whatever is significant im not a mathematician, im a lawyer, i leave the math to whomever decides it might be worth some statistical analysis. At no point did i say just compare 3o tables from one satelite, i said thats what one game approximatley has, however many of these games are needed for comparison isnt the point, the point is analysis is needed.. Once again bright spark you missed the point. the option to select as many final tables of the sunday millon is there, select 50 FTs, and the first 15 minutes from each, whatever sample size would count to make a difference??
Furthermore the idea that it wouldnt be worth them rigging a $1 satelite is crazy, the point your missing, is they rig all there games and this one game would be a way to prove it. You have missed the point, i fear its not the first time and wont be the last.

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Old 02-08-2009, 05:19 AM   #779
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
yes you are wrong 20 or 30 is not too high its a turbo rebuy. If you havnt played it you cant comment can you bright spark, if your going to criticise at least have half a clue what your talking about.
As far as the sample size goes, i said whatever is significant im not a mathematician, im a lawyer, i leave the math to whomever decides it might be worth some statistical analysis. At no point did i say just compare 3o tables from one satelite, i said thats what one game approximatley has, however many of these games are needed for comparison isnt the point, the point is analysis is needed.. Once again bright spark you missed the point. the option to select as many final tables of the sunday millon is there, select 50 FTs, and the first 15 minutes from each, whatever sample size would count to make a difference??
Furthermore the idea that it wouldnt be worth them rigging a $1 satelite is crazy, the point your missing, is they rig all there games and this one game would be a way to prove it. You have missed the point, i fear its not the first time and wont be the last.

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Old 02-08-2009, 05:33 AM   #780
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
yes you are wrong 20 or 30 is not too high its a turbo rebuy. If you havnt played it you cant comment can you bright spark, if your going to criticise at least have half a clue what your talking about.
Wow, name calling already. Awesome.
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As far as the sample size goes, i said whatever is significant im not a mathematician, im a lawyer, i leave the math to whomever decides it might be worth some statistical analysis. At no point did i say just compare 3o tables from one satelite, i said thats what one game approximatley has, however many of these games are needed for comparison isnt the point, the point is analysis is needed.. Once again bright spark you missed the point.
Fair enough, you did say we could compare the first 30 hands from "any or all" final tables. That only gives us 1,520 hands per year to compare with. We'd need 6 and a half years' worth of Sunday Millions final tables to even start to be able to compare them.
Quote:
Furthermore the idea that it wouldnt be worth them rigging a $1 satelite is crazy, the point your missing, is they rig all there games and this one game would be a way to prove it. You have missed the point, i fear its not the first time and wont be the last.
Aw, you've gone from "rigtard with a semi-provable theory" to just all out rigtard on me.

By the way, the next $1+R hyper-turbo to the Sunday warm up is starting in 8 minutes. I'm going to watch a couple tables and count how many hands they get in before the rebuy, just so I can have "half a clue what your[sic] talking about".

Last edited by otatop; 02-08-2009 at 05:34 AM. Reason: Also, you type a bit like GrinderR, so if you're him, how's it going?
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Old 02-08-2009, 05:58 AM   #781
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Watched tables 1, 2, and 3 of Tournament 137958358, 3 broke about halfway through the rebuy period with 8 hands, 1 had 20 hands, and 2 had 18.

I still think 30's a bit on the high side, but I don't have a huge sample size.

I also didn't really see any sort of evidence for Stars needing to rig the hands to create action, since most people were just shoving any two cards. It's not like a starting M of 6ish leaves a lot of room for postflop play.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:07 AM   #782
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

just went to a rebuy $1 turbo sat to sunday warm up, during the rebuy period, randomly picked a table and this is what i saw.

PokerStars Game #24715766982: Tournament #137958358, $1+$0 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (200/400) - 2009/02/08 4:51:06 ET
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MRALLIN39: shows [Js Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
Kermit996: shows [8h 8c] (a pair of Eights)
MRALLIN39 collected 296 from side pot-3
cilinking: shows [Ah 8d] (high card Ace)
MRALLIN39 collected 4380 from side pot-2
Dazzle Date: shows [As Qs] (a pair of Queens)
Dazzle Date collected 1988 from side pot-1
Roamin06: shows [Th Td] (three of a kind, Tens)
Roamin06 collected 4395 from main pot
Kermit996 re-buys and receives 1000 chips for $2.00
cilinking re-buys and receives 1000 chips for $2.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 11059 Main pot 4395. Side pot-1 1988. Side pot-2 4380. Side pot-3 296. | Rake 0
Board [Ts 3c 5c 2h Qd]
Seat 1: Danceoflife (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: poker-luser folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MRALLIN39 showed [Js Jc] and won (4676) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: cilinking showed [Ah 8d] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 5: A_LA_CARD1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Kermit996 showed [8h 8c] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 7: Roamin06 showed [Th Td] and won (4395) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 8: Dazzle Date (button) showed [As Qs] and won (1988) with a pair of Queens
Seat 9: Puckolina_ (small blind) folded before Flop


pocket JJ,TT,88,AQ suited and A8.
a nice 5 way all in hand, all the tables are the same, have you ever seen that at a final table of the sunday mill, nooooooooo.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:09 AM   #783
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

IGNORANCE IS BLISS I GUESS.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:11 AM   #784
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

This just in: Play is different at a $1 rebuy than a final table where each spot you move up earns you thousands of dollars. More at eleven.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:16 AM   #785
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

The play is different, not just due to the prize pool, but, because the hands are different,
just compare some of these turbo sat hands with those from the replay of sunday mills,you can see the hole cards in the replay.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:28 AM   #786
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

lol zomg somebody got A8 at the same time a few other people had middle pairs? You must be joking. Totally rogged.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:51 AM   #787
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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lol zomg somebody got A8 at the same time a few other people had middle pairs? You must be joking. Totally rogged.
erm zomg psml lmfao, donk wtf u on, its at every table, every orbit, zomg omg omg omg, i just peed in your mommas butt hole, zomg omg omg lol
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:06 AM   #788
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

just keep stacking off with A8 rigtard, the rest of the 2+2 community will love you
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:13 AM   #789
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
The play is different, not just due to the prize pool, but, because the hands are different,
just compare some of these turbo sat hands with those from the replay of sunday mills,you can see the hole cards in the replay.
the play is different because the players are horrendous
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:16 PM   #790
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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just keep stacking off with A8 rigtard, the rest of the 2+2 community will love you
Always a yank with an attitude problem, seriously at your age, over 30 are we? You still got a chip on your shoulder, mind you, what with eating so many you probably look like a walking potato! You use words like zomg and rigtard as a grown man? Your nation has enough problems speaking correct English as it is, without you adding insult to injury. You should look up revocation in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up aluminium. Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix ize will be replaced by the suffix ise. You will learn that the suffix 'burgh' is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation.
Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up vocabulary. Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up interspersed. There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad or unitelligable language as often.

Have a nice day!
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:01 PM   #791
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Take a lot of your time to prove your theories and then write a manifesto based on them with more data then "lookat this hand."

Noone is taking you seriously because your claims make no sense even among the OMGRIGGZORS crowd.

Hint, they would not rig $1 rebuy tourneys where they make not a single cent on the rebuys anyway.

Hint, they do not have to do anything to encourage action in $1 turbo rebuys, most look at that as a gamble shove fest anyway.


Your beliefs make no sense even if rigging was taking place. Have faith that those who run these companies will at least rig it in a way that

1) Actually makes them money

2) Would be relatively hard to detect


Your theories fail both even if you believe in them because of what you saw.


Your evidence consists of

1) Your selected memories, and a cherry picked hand history

2) What you feel is probably happening

3) A lack of understanding the context of the tournament in terms of action


Plus you do not come across as a candidate for Mensa, which never helps.


Still if it makes you happy, write a blog, make a youtube video and stand on a soap box on a corner with a billboard sign with your beliefs. Perhaps keep them written on little notes strewn all over your room.

All the best.
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:45 PM   #792
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

lol
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:32 PM   #793
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
Always a yank with an attitude problem, seriously at your age, over 30 are we? You still got a chip on your shoulder, mind you, what with eating so many you probably look like a walking potato! You use words like zomg and rigtard as a grown man? Your nation has enough problems speaking correct English as it is, without you adding insult to injury. You should look up revocation in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up aluminium. Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix ize will be replaced by the suffix ise. You will learn that the suffix 'burgh' is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation.
Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up vocabulary. Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up interspersed. There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad or unitelligable language as often.

Have a nice day!
no u
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:09 PM   #794
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugzy View Post
Always a yank with an attitude problem, seriously at your age, over 30 are we? You still got a chip on your shoulder, mind you, what with eating so many you probably look like a walking potato! You use words like zomg and rigtard as a grown man? Your nation has enough problems speaking correct English as it is, without you adding insult to injury. You should look up revocation in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up aluminium. Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix ize will be replaced by the suffix ise. You will learn that the suffix 'burgh' is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation.
Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up vocabulary. Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up interspersed. There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad or unitelligable language as often.

Have a nice day!



Also, the English spoken in the UK now is actually a butchered version of Middle English itself which was a butchered version of Old English, so saying that you speak "correct" English and American's speak "incorrect" English is just stupid. BTW, I say this as neither an American nor a Brit.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:21 PM   #795
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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I say this as neither an American nor a Brit.
there's another option?

let's get this back to the Golden Tee anyway.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:24 PM   #796
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

I didn't actually read any of his posts, but if he's really ripping on people for correct language usage while he can't even locate the enter key, that's pretty awesome
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:26 PM   #797
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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there's another option?

let's get this back to the Golden Tee anyway.
I think the earlier courses play so much easier than the courses you unlock. It's like they are rigging it early on, so you spend more quarters to get those locked courses.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:31 PM   #798
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

those bastards!
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Old 02-08-2009, 10:47 PM   #799
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
I think the earlier courses play so much easier than the courses you unlock. It's like they are rigging it early on, so you spend more quarters to get those locked courses.
You know what really started all that:

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Old 02-09-2009, 12:43 AM   #800
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Oh man, Gauntlet is hella rigged!
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