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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:49 PM   #7901
frankvdg
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Re: An Observation

yes OP you may be on to something, please record as much data as possible on this in the next couple of weeks and be sure to post your findings here.

use a spreadsheet obv
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:57 PM   #7902
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Re: An Observation

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Old 08-22-2009, 07:59 PM   #7903
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Re: An Observation

i notice that too, op
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:11 PM   #7904
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Re: An Observation

I will check this out op
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:24 PM   #7905
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Re: An Observation

Your 2+2 career is off to a sparkling start OP.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:42 PM   #7906
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Re: An Observation

this thread makes me hungry for a burger. i could buy alot with all the money ive won flopping sets.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:02 PM   #7907
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Re: An Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OziBattler View Post
this thread makes me hungry for a burger.
Well, you could have joined this discussion before the thread was locked.

Starting with MicroBobs post #10.
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:13 PM   #7908
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Re: An Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfold View Post
Well, you could have joined this discussion before the thread was locked.

Starting with MicroBobs post #10.
well i did get one post in it at post 19

ibtl
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:04 PM   #7909
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Re: An Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OziBattler View Post
well i did get one post in it at post 19

ibtl
Ah yes, my bad, I should have realized the burger reference was no coincidence.
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:13 PM   #7910
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Re: An Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OziBattler View Post
this thread makes me hungry for a burger. i could buy alot with all the money ive won flopping sets.
Forget flopping sets that's chump change.
I am ordering Chinese food with money from hitting four board cards for my flush.
That's where the real money is. Didn't you read the OP? LOL.
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:33 PM   #7911
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Re: An Observation

quit set mining.
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:31 PM   #7912
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Re: An Observation

Quote:
Take a good look at how many all one suit flops hit the board. It's so crazy. I'm talking about both stars and ft. The last week it's happening about 1.75 times for every 18 flops.

1.75x for every 18? Don't you mean it's been happening about 3.5x for every 36?


Anyway, show your stats from your Pt or HEM where you cam up with this determination. monotone flop is supposed to happen 5.2% of the time and you are reporting near 10% (actually 9.722222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 222222222222222222% to be precise)
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:32 PM   #7913
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Re: An Observation

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Old 08-22-2009, 11:37 PM   #7914
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Re: An Observation

so it stops after the 1230th 2 or wat?

also stop derailing! It´s about the riggediroggness
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:40 PM   #7915
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Re: An Observation

The big stack always knocks out the small stack because the small stack can't knock out the big stack.

Pretty simple, actually.
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:42 PM   #7916
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Re: An Observation

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Old 08-23-2009, 12:05 AM   #7917
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Re: An Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
Anyway, show your stats from your Pt or HEM where you cam up with this determination. monotone flop is supposed to happen 5.2% of the time and you are reporting near 10%
See this post for a sample of 2.2 million Stars hands showing single suited flops happen exactly as often as expected.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=7222
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:30 AM   #7918
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Re: An Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvdoinit View Post
What I'm asking you to do is pay attention. Watch how often in sng's or mtt's the bigger stack knocks out the short stack even though the bs has the dominated hand, ie, A Q vs short stack A K.

It really doesnt matter what the hands are the big stack will knock out the short stack at a 70% - 80% rate when they are the 30% dog.
I've been waiting for this "theory" to pop up again.

Why do short stacks who are sitting out on FTP always seem to hit a pair or two when they're put all in, especially on the bubble? Doesn't that observation go against the idea that short stacks lose more often than they should?

Or maybe I've just stumbled on the secret to beating FTP's short stack targeting system. You just have to sit out. Jackpot.

Look for the $65 ebook on ebay soon.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:12 AM   #7919
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

How do you make money when you know the suck out against your flopped set is coming. Oh, Ok dont bet it. No, that only saves you money doesnt make me money.

The pattern is for suck outs against the better hand. I could make a fortune if I could get Vegas to take my action that the big stack will win against the short stack. Now that way I could make a fortune cause its as predictable as the sun coming up each morning.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Morals or millions? Seems an easy choice.

Anyone who has the ability to see into the future and see patterns in a rigged system that no one can mathematically demonstrate should capitalize on it as much as possible.

I just cannot figure out why these guys don't do just that. A whole small community of casino whores (happily including myself) made quite a bit for years based on a similar systemic analysis and manipulation (with fewer super powers like seeing the future).

These guys have all they need to break the online rooms of millions. They see the patterns, they know what is coming, they know how it is rigged and who and how it benefits certain types of players.

Easy money. Hope they remember the little people after they make millions or billions.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:18 AM   #7920
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I love how the simple minded idiots always have the one sentence come back while intellegent people take the time to observe and point out what the obvious is and do so in an intelectual manner.

But the morons simply have there standard come back, like gtfo, or conspiracy nut.

Unlike the majority of you here I actually make money playing online and would make alot more if it wasnt so blantantly rigged. So you morons who dont thing its rigged, GTFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:31 AM   #7921
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

lol this is such an obvious gimmick account
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:07 AM   #7922
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Poker Stars thoughts

I've been reading a bunch of threads, posts, reviews, scam alerts, what have you on Poker Stars. I came to this site by doing a search for "pokerstars scam". It's quite obvious what I have on my mind.

Let me start by saying I'm not a pro poker player, not by any stretch. From reading some of the posts here, I fully understand there are going to be those that are going to flame this and stab me with a pitch fork. I'm ok with this. I'd just like to share my observations.

I guess it's been three years that I've been playing on Poker Stars now. At first it was an easy 8 to 10 hours a day, but things have changed significantly and I don't have near the time to commit. I usually just play at night, and only the tournaments as the ring tables are full of morons that have no idea how to play poker and will call anything just because they can refill if they're wrong.

I only play with play money. I never play real money, I never have any financial stake. It is strictly for my entertainment, which is why I don't mind playing there and will continue to do so.

With all that said. There are a lot of things I've seen on the site that APPEAR to completely defy odds.

For a while as I was learning the game I used an odds calculator. PS staff had assured me that the only reason I was doing horribly was because I needed to learn what to hold, what to fold. That's fair enough, there was absolutely an element of truth to that.

What the odds calculator did for me was teach me how to play a tight game of poker. That's where it ended. After thousands of hands it became increasingly obvious that an odds calculator was of little use on the site.

Please note, once again, these are mere observations and hunches. I'm not going to spam hand histories, give you the play by play or what have you. However, here's what I've noticed:
  • Seasoned poker players, stating odds to the fraction of a point, noting that statistically the hands are next to impossible at their current frequency. I've noted this bizarre trend over a dozen different sites, by dozens of different players. While this is not a "slam dunk", it absolutely raises red flags (or should, if you're even somewhat logical)
  • One out of every three hands in the games I've played are pair/single flops. This strikes me as being exceedingly high. QQ5, AAK, T8T, etc. I'm a logical person. I don't believe in flukes. This frequency is too high to be a fluke. I'm satisfied that flops like this can assure at least two callers a piece of the action. Typical strategy would be a decent raise preflop to limit the contenders and increase your odds, along with a respectable follow up, depending on position and the action after the flop. It's reasonable to expect that even a bad hand can be a winner when played right. I respectfully note that in ring games with play chips, all bets are off unless you're sitting in a tight game
  • I've noted that I've fluked some ridiculous hands against unbelievable odds. Tonight I gave up on a crappy table. The game play was horrible. I couldn't hit to save my life. 10k was expendable. I went all in with a J8o. An absurd hand with preflop odds of 10% or less. I fully expected to lose. Two callers came in with substantially better hands, one a face pair, the other suited connectors. Good, I'm done. Who was I kidding? I actually made that hand. With the river, PS filled in a straight. Absurd. Absolutely absurd. By all rights I should have lost. Accusations flew of "lotto poker". We're sitting here in disbelief, realizing the statistical odds of that happening were astoundingly low.

    I can accept a one off. I can live with a one in a million shot happening once, although the fellow players at the table were choked. HOWEVER. What I can't swallow is the alarming frequency at which that has happened to me. I note that 50% of the time I say "Meh, screw it. I'll start over in a new tourney, no big deal" I pull off ridiculous hands.
  • Tonight I dominate a tournament. The entire game I'm chip leader with at least four times the chip of the nearest stack. I'm playing tight, real tight. I even scrap suited connectors. I watch as the run of strange odds makes it's way around the table, players hitting no matter what they play. Suddenly it's over, they get comfortable and they're wiped out in a showdown as lady luck moves on. This goes on until the final three. My runner-up loses a hand to the short stack. A few thousand chips, no big deal. From that point on, the short stack hit EVERY SINGLE HAND until suddenly it was over, wiped out in one all-in bid by the runner-up.

    It was a hell of a battle. Suddenly, the runner-up is in the lead. I'd been folding everything, checking on the bb as I had nothing but h/l os and rags. Not a big deal. Suddenly I hold pocket rockets. My opponent goes all in. I call. Big slick against AA. Not a bad gig. Preflop odds are in my favor. Flop is 3 suits in his favor. Turn is an A. River was inconsequential.

    As an isolated incident, that's a bad beat and perfectly acceptable in the game of poker. When it becomes questionable is when it happens repeatedly. You're doing well, you get dealt a slew of garbage, then get hands that "lead you on". Another one is a flush draw and nothing else but a hit for your opponent. An outside straight and the out never comes. Decent enough odds, you call the reasonable bets, fold when someone pushes you out.

    The point is this. These "leading" hands get expensive. It appears that PS gets to know what kinds of hands you'll call. I'm prepared to accept this as a load of hooey. However, with the frequency at which this happens, broken when you all of a sudden decide to play sloppy and break your pattern, SEEMS to be more than chance. I could be wrong, hammer away at will.
  • A friend got tired of their nick. After over a year of playing it, they decided for a name change. PS cited an inability to do so. They decide it's just easier to open a new account. It's only play chips, no big deal...so they thought.

    From the time of opening the account, in one night they won almost every single tournament they played in. When they didn't place first, they placed second. Pokerstars locked the account. It's against the rules to have two accounts. They moved quickly to move the winnings back into the old account. Well handled there, no complaints. They again refused to change the name or picture. Not a big deal, my friend felt that was liveable. Not ideal, but certainly liveable.

    Almost by fluke, out of the next two dozen tournies played, they won once, other than that didn't place. I suppose it could be bad luck, bad vibes, whatever. I'm not a big believer in flukes. I'm not prepared to chalk it up to simple luck.

I have a ton more examples, but really I don't think they're needed to make the point. I've placed a lot of thought into it, simply because I'm an exceedingly analytical and logical type of person. If it's only play chips, what advantage would there be to skewering a game? What could possibly be in it for PS?

What I see is less than random flops. I see patterns emerging. I see exceedingly bad play and horrible calls being rewarded. I see people call huge pushes with absolutely nothing.. I mean 8/3o for example.. And pairing up on the turn or river. I see flopped quads. I've personally flopped quads. I've flopped full houses. Go me. Look at me, the awesome poker player.

I'm not buying it.

What I FEEL is in it for Poker Stars is the ability to convince anyone, no matter how good or bad a player they are, that they're a poker god. Lady luck is on their side. Every player is inundated with tantalizing deals to draw them into the real money. If your game sucked, if you always lost, there would be nothing tantalizing you. The carrot in front of your nose so to speak. No amazing action, no dramatic showdowns, no dipping into the wallet.

It is my now firm belief that all the action you see at play money tables is engineered for one thing. Excitement that draws you to your credit card. It's a business like any other. As a businessman, I respect business. I respect the desire to make money. Pokerstars isn't there for our entertainment. It's an enterprise with one goal in mind, making money.

This is, I believe, as it should be. If there's no gain for the company, there's no point. Please feel free to try and convince me otherwise that play money tables are only there for your benefit. Something for you to entertain yourself over a beer and pretzels.

I believe when you look at it from the eyes of a businessman, plus the comments of countless independent players (yes, some of them just don't have a clue how to play poker, granted), I think it's not a stretch to believe that it's not a completely random game at PS. In fact, I'm beginning to believe that it's an ingeniously engineered enterprise.

Take it for what it's worth, if anything. I've observed countless examples to support the theory. At this point it's ONLY a theory. I've observed that the longer you play without digging into your wallet, the less "lady luck" seems to shine on you....although she never gives up. It's almost like "God's love".

Your thoughts, comments, etc. are most welcomed.

Last edited by skepticalatbest; 08-23-2009 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:14 AM   #7923
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Re: Poker Stars thoughts

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...dition-255990/
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:19 AM   #7924
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Re: Poker Stars thoughts

Welcome to 2+2 forums, please read the link that salty7 post.

Read and Learn.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:32 AM   #7925
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Re: Poker Stars thoughts

Do stupid people know they're stupid?
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